2020 Gladiator Towing (Overland)

sroberts1519

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Sorry, not how it works. It's not "can it move it". There's a whole lot more to the equation. Too many try to over-simplify it. It's not about it can or can't move it, it can or can't pull it. It's about heat, axle ratings, braking, engine load, gearing, just a whole lot of things considered.
You are trying to make it all about weight and it's not. If it was, then if you removed 200 pounds of weight from the truck, it could pull 200 pounds more in a trailer. Or if the trailer was 200 pounds lighter, you could put 200 pounds more in the truck. That's not really how it works.

>>I have never heard how differential gear ratios affect suspension - I am a licensed engineer, but that is a new one on me..... <<
Gear ratios don't impact suspension - but you have to consider that the Overland has NARROWER axles. Sport S max tow and Rubicon have WIDER axles, besides the lower ratio. The wider axles DO impact how it handles and what the tow rating would be.

>> I will be atleast 1000 pounds under tow capacity, atleast 1000 pounds under GCVWR, but maybe marginally over GVWR of the JT. If I dont like the ride, I may try adding air bags to the back <<

Over weight in the vehicle - over GVWR - then you get into issues - legal and otherwise. Again you are trying to make it about ride, comfort and height - it's not about comfort. You are looking at it wrong. You can't resolve that with air bags!! If you are over, you are over. IF it was so darned simple a person could add heavier springs - and that will NOT help you carry more weight. You can't add air bags and be legal.
I agree that there are many, many factors involved with towing. Even environmental conditions (such as ambient air temperature) plays a huge factor. In fact, engine/system cooling was one of the obstacles that the Jeep engineers had to overcome to get the JT tow rating over 5000 pounds (if you look closely at a JT, the grill spacing is larger on the JT than it is on a JL). Heat testing (on different sub-systems) is part of the SAE J2807 (and other standards) towing standards.

I agree, every pound of weight over a GAWR does things like increase "system" coefficient of friction, which in-turn will generate more heat, which in turn will cause the axle grease to break down faster, which in turn will cause the coefficient of friction to increase, which leads to a exponential failure mode of the axle. But, there are soooooooo many more variables to get there, than just the weight on the axle. I know I would rather drive on a new (or almost new) Dana 44 axle at 100 pounds over it's weight limit, than a non-maintained 20 year old much heavy duty axle operating at half of it's GAWR. Pretty sure we can predict which one of those axles would fail first. BTW, my JT Overland front GAWR is 3100 pounds and the rear GAWR is 3750. I am pretty sure I will be well under both of those axle ratings.

It is obvious that we will never agree on any of this. At this point, it is moot to even discuss it.





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tmcarr

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I don't dispute any of what you're saying and I am 100% certain you know more than I about towing. I basically no nothing. I just can't get any concrete info as to whether a WDH will take care of the 200lbs I will be over my max payload with everyone in the truck. The dealers all say yes but looking online I've seen so much conflicting info it's impossible to know for sure. I'm supposed to either get the camper or not tomorrow.
The WDH will move some tongue weight forward, this helps with tongue weight but doesn't help with payload. It will also move some of the tongue weight rearward to the trailer axle(s), how much depends on the tension you put on the bars/chains. I do not know how to calculate this number. You can add tension to get to the 10% total trailer weight on the tongue, but at that point I don't know how much weight would be transferred to trailer. I wish I could be more help. Someone else may know how to calculate this, I would probably check to see if the dealer would let me connect it and take it to a scale before final purchase. Good luck.
 

sroberts1519

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This has gotten way out of control. I am sorry.

Someone mentioned that there could be legal ramifications from towing over limits. That is correct, but every situation is different, with way more variables than just GVWR, GAWR, GCWR, Tow Rating, suspension rating, shock rating, tire speed rating, temperature (The list goes on for 1000 pages). Each situation is different.

With the legal ramifications, and much more importantly, with peoples families involved, here is my recommendation:

I am a internet Joe-Schmo. When it comes down to it, I would never take advice from a internet Joe-Schmo. About the only sound advice I can give is only do what you feel comfortable with.

For me, I have a trailer on order that will be under my JT Overland Tow capacity and GCVWR, but could possibly be around 100 pounds over my GVWR. After alot of thought, the conclusion I came to for myself, considering how I will be towing, and in what kinds of environment I will be towing in, I believe I will be ok with my trailer. I may be completely wrong, and making a very bad investment in the new trailer. Only time will tell.......
 

tmcarr

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This has gotten way out of control. I am sorry.

Someone mentioned that there could be legal ramifications from towing over limits. That is correct, but every situation is different, with way more variables than just GVWR, GAWR, GCWR, Tow Rating, suspension rating, shock rating, tire speed rating, temperature (The list goes on for 1000 pages). Each situation is different.

With the legal ramifications, and much more importantly, with peoples families involved, here is my recommendation:

I am a internet Joe-Schmo. When it comes down to it, I would never take advice from a internet Joe-Schmo. About the only sound advice I can give is only do what you feel comfortable with.

For me, I have a trailer on order that will be under my JT Overland Tow capacity and GCVWR, but could possibly be around 100 pounds over my GVWR. After alot of thought, the conclusion I came to for myself, considering how I will be towing, and in what kinds of environment I will be towing in, I believe I will be ok with my trailer. I may be completely wrong, and making a very bad investment in the new trailer. Only time will tell.......
Sounds like you have done your homework and sounds like you have made a very thoughtful decision. My Joe-Schmo opinion; I think you'll be fine. Send us pictures.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I don't dispute any of what you're saying and I am 100% certain you know more than I about towing. I basically no nothing. I just can't get any concrete info as to whether a WDH will take care of the 200lbs I will be over my max payload with everyone in the truck. The dealers all say yes but looking online I've seen so much conflicting info it's impossible to know for sure. I'm supposed to either get the camper or not tomorrow.
The hitch won't take 200 pounds OFF the truck - meaning if you are over 200 on "payload" - it's still going to be on the truck. A certain amount will press on the trailer, but those hitches are mostly to shift the load forward on the truck.Think of it this way - hitch on the back, then the load is on the back. If you could somehow lift the rear of the truck, then you shift the load forward on the truck - not back to the trailer. Similar on the trailer - you don't move weight from the truck to the trailer, you shift the weight of the trailer to the rear of the trailer, off the front.
WDH's move the weight to the front and rear of the total length, not from one vehicle to the other.
I talked to a trailer engineer about it when I asked about using one on my car hauler and he said NO.
So instead of the weight being in the middle of the truck/trailer combo - rear axle of the truck and front axle of the trailer, you shift the weight to the front of the truck and rear of the trailer but the total carried by each remains the same according to them (and it stresses the trailer tongue the more weight you try to shift)
 
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gwpeaks

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The hitch won't take 200 pounds OFF the truck - meaning if you are over 200 on "payload" - it's still going to be on the truck. A certain amount will press on the trailer, but those hitches are mostly to shift the load forward on the truck.Think of it this way - hitch on the back, then the load is on the back. If you could somehow lift the rear of the truck, then you shift the load forward on the truck - not back to the trailer. Similar on the trailer - you don't move weight from the truck to the trailer, you shift the weight of the trailer to the rear of the trailer, off the front.
WDH's move the weight to the front and rear of the total length, not from one vehicle to the other.
I talked to a trailer engineer about it when I asked about using one on my car hauler and he said NO.
So instead of the weight being in the middle of the truck/trailer combo - rear axle of the truck and front axle of the trailer, you shift the weight to the front of the truck and rear of the trailer but the total carried by each remains the same according to them (and it stresses the trailer tongue the more weight you try to shift)
I agree with sroberts that this discussion has gone on long enough. I've gotten the answers I need though. It's clear now that the hitch weight is part of the payload. We've discussed it and IF we decide to get the trailer we will consider taking separate vehicles for some trips and leaving the dogs home on others. By my figures, if we leave the dogs, I remove my bed cover and mat, we will be close to 50lbs under the GVWR. Some of that would be consumed by miscellaneous stuff (baby bag, phones, handgun, etc.) but less than 50lbs. I don't know of I'm cutting it too close but that's the best I can come up with. We really want this camper!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion. Jeep people are the best!
 

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