My Gladiator still rides like buckin' bronco!

[firehog]

I have a Sport S Max Tow. I haven’t had any problems stock. Build date is June 2020 so maybe I already have the updated steering box? Drove fine stock. Added a 3inch Fabtech lift, 35s on Fuel rims, Synergy brace and Fox steering stabilizer. Ride is much better and I can drive 80mph down the highway with one finger. Alignment was all good. Caster is 3.3 degrees which is out of norm but it drives straight as an arrow. I would agree with everyone else that there is something else going on.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Death wobble usually hits from 40-50 mph. That’s the resonance that really gets it going. Are you getting a shimmy, or full on violent shaking of the whole vehicle? I suspect the wheels or lift.

did you loosen and retighten every control after the lift install? Need alignment specs too, castor may be too little.

You brought up an excellent point.
Any time suspension parts are changes or swapped, and/or you do ANYTHING that changes the ride height of any vehicle, anything with a bushing needs to be loosened, vehicle lowered to the ground, sitting at it's normal or new normal height, then things tightened to spec while it's sitting with all 4 feet on the ground.
That means if you put in .75" spacers - you should loosen the control arms at both ends, track bar, etc. and lower the vehicle to the ground and re-torque. Replace springs - same thing.
This has been true since the beginning of vehicle suspension systems with bushings. Doesn't matter if it's SLA suspension, solid axle, leaf springs, 4 or 5 link systems, anything.
So when I replaced the front springs under my car, I had to loosen and re-tighten the control arm attachment points (no biggy there, I was replacing ALL bushings in the whole car anyway)
If you lift, lower, replace springs, put in spacers, anything that changes ride height or the suspension geometry in any way -loosen those attachment points first, then when done, lower it and re-torque things.

Too few people know this - they just jump in and start replacing parts because they were never informed any better. Or their friend or neighbor told 'em how bloody simple it was, or they saw people on the web in forums do it and no one ever mentioned it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have a Sport S Max Tow. I haven’t had any problems stock. Build date is June 2020 so maybe I already have the updated steering box? Drove fine stock. Added a 3inch Fabtech lift, 35s on Fuel rims, Synergy brace and Fox steering stabilizer. Ride is much better and I can drive 80mph down the highway with one finger. Alignment was all good. Caster is 3.3 degrees which is out of norm but it drives straight as an arrow. I would agree with everyone else that there is something else going on.

NO, you do NOT have the new steering gear. Even those built in July don't have it.
2021 MODEL year will have it, 2020 MODEL year doesn't.

Not all JTs have the issue that's severe as others have, and in other cases, people have blindly accepted it just as a jeep thing when it is not.
I didn't really know that mine had the issue until my wife pointed out how badly it wandered and she commented on my driving, which she rarely did before (and before it's just because she's a passenger seat driver)
And yet I checked with the dealer, told them what my wife said, asked them to check - they said it had the problem.
So don't accept ANY wander, ANY looseness, ANY steering issues as "a Jeep thing" if it doesn't drive as true or steer as nice as your buddy's Chevy truck.
It will when it's RIGHT.

 

[firehog]

NO, you do NOT have the new steering gear. Even those built in July don't have it.
2021 MODEL year will have it, 2020 MODEL year doesn't.

Dang! I was hoping I didn’t have to worry about it! Do you think I should still have the dealer replace it?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Dang! I was hoping I didn’t have to worry about it! Do you think I should still have the dealer replace it?

I find that some dealers seem to be open to checking and replacing if iffy.
Here's what I did -

Believe it or not, there are times I actually hear my wife and pay attention - on the way back from Indiana last February, she took over driving as I was exhausted and her first comment - I hope there aren't any cops behind us, they'll think I'm drunk. Knowing she's a good driver, keeps it between the lines, I did note she had some trouble.
She has commented about me not driving straight at times......... I didn't really notice.
Then recently again she took over driving on a long trip and commented "this thing sure likes to wander". Hmmmmmm. So I thought, honestly, and tried to let go of any "it's got to be perfect because I chose it" thing. And yeah, it was hard to drive on a narrow road and eat my ice cream treat at the same time.....
So I went to a dealer - told them what my wife has said, her exact words, and then said she may be right, but I didn't want to be the one to tell her she was wrong - and asked them to check it. I showed them the TSB and said yea, no pull, but otherwise, this is what she's been saying.
They had it for an hour while I waited out front - they came with a stack of papers and told me my truck had a problem, parts were on order.

So - that's how I'd approach it!
I wonder, was I accepting it less than perfect as I didn't want to admit my perfect wonderful truck wasn't so perfect after-all? Perhaps I was fooling myself and didn't want to admit a mistake?
Or was I just so used to driving vehicles with high miles and loose steering that this felt good?

 

[piroman683]

ShadowsPapa is spot on with regard to keeping things loose until you have all 4 wheels back on the ground for final torquing. This is absolutely important because of one additional item, almost all links (track, control arms, etc) are torqued between 2 pieces of sheet metal, and as you torque you deform the sheet metal (it's designed to do that) which changes the friction applied to the joint, which then changes how the suspension moves/travels.

it should take no more than 2 hours to loosen all 8 control arms, and 2 trac bars (which the vehicle in the air), then drop it down and complete the final torques.

I'd also check the 4 bolts going into your steering box from the frame, mine loosened up and I had to retorque those (dealer was surprised by that issue)

 

[Bonanza]

You brought up an excellent point.
Any time suspension parts are changes or swapped, and/or you do ANYTHING that changes the ride height of any vehicle, anything with a bushing needs to be loosened, vehicle lowered to the ground, sitting at it's normal or new normal height, then things tightened to spec while it's sitting with all 4 feet on the ground.
That means if you put in .75" spacers - you should loosen the control arms at both ends, track bar, etc. and lower the vehicle to the ground and re-torque. Replace springs - same thing.
This has been true since the beginning of vehicle suspension systems with bushings. Doesn't matter if it's SLA suspension, solid axle, leaf springs, 4 or 5 link systems, anything.
So when I replaced the front springs under my car, I had to loosen and re-tighten the control arm attachment points (no biggy there, I was replacing ALL bushings in the whole car anyway)
If you lift, lower, replace springs, put in spacers, anything that changes ride height or the suspension geometry in any way -loosen those attachment points first, then when done, lower it and re-torque things.

Too few people know this - they just jump in and start replacing parts because they were never informed any better. Or their friend or neighbor told 'em how bloody simple it was, or they saw people on the web in forums do it and no one ever mentioned it.

I’ll note as well that when I installed my lift, the front control arm bushings were under such bind they actually shot up like a rubber band when I loosened at the axle side. The bind was so great it almost seemed like it would’ve been bound at factory height.

 

[unsocbl]

I find that some dealers seem to be open to checking and replacing if iffy.
Here's what I did -

Believe it or not, there are times I actually hear my wife and pay attention - on the way back from Indiana last February, she took over driving as I was exhausted and her first comment - I hope there aren't any cops behind us, they'll think I'm drunk. Knowing she's a good driver, keeps it between the lines, I did note she had some trouble.
She has commented about me not driving straight at times......... I didn't really notice.
Then recently again she took over driving on a long trip and commented "this thing sure likes to wander". Hmmmmmm. So I thought, honestly, and tried to let go of any "it's got to be perfect because I chose it" thing. And yeah, it was hard to drive on a narrow road and eat my ice cream treat at the same time.....
So I went to a dealer - told them what my wife has said, her exact words, and then said she may be right, but I didn't want to be the one to tell her she was wrong - and asked them to check it. I showed them the TSB and said yea, no pull, but otherwise, this is what she's been saying.
They had it for an hour while I waited out front - they came with a stack of papers and told me my truck had a problem, parts were on order.

So - that's how I'd approach it!
I wonder, was I accepting it less than perfect as I didn't want to admit my perfect wonderful truck wasn't so perfect after-all? Perhaps I was fooling myself and didn't want to admit a mistake?
Or was I just so used to driving vehicles with high miles and loose steering that this felt good?

You've got me thinking. I've had a Jeep Wrangler of some sort for the past 20 years. The JT does seem to wander but they all drive differently depending on tires/lift/2 door or 4 door, etc... Think I'll call the dealer and have it checked out just in case.

 

[blackeye]

That tsb won't cause death wobble.

If he's got a bad steering box, coupled with an ill-tuned lift, all those parts working together could make the situation worse.

 

[jeepit]

I had the same experience with JLU and JTR wandering all over the freeway lanes. But super happy with JTM, Mojave is totally different, it does not wander like the them, you do not feel any pot holes, and it glides on dirt-roads, it is super fun and stress-free to drive even at 80-90 with softtop in freeway. I noticed one upside of having soft top, it is quieter than hardtop driving in rain and in car-wash.
it has old grey steering box, i wonder if new black steering box would make it even better.

 

[Cdemarac]

Rough country lifts are also known for issues.

Can you link the exact lift kit you got?

I see you got new tires and rims as well, are you sure they are in balance?

Unfortunately you have a valid point I had a 2002 grand Cherokee with a rough country lift kit on it and I ended up replacing everything rough country on that truck. It was the only way to make it ride correct after.

Now I’m afraid of lift kits after that experience which is the main reason I went with the mopar lift kit

 

[DirtySaylor]

Thanks for the excellent replies! Much appreciated. I don't mind paying to get this figured out, but I am not very mechanically inclined, so i'll leave it to the professionals.

 

[redrider]

Seems to me there is a lot of "re-torque" going on. If the parts changer just slaps it together with the air tool set to max or the "that's good enough" setting on the manual wrench, things will likely be out of spec. I know there are service folks here. How many of you actually use a torque wrench when specified by the T.O. ?

 

[Walldo]

Torqued every time! If you over torque it, you stretch the bolt, causing failure. If you under torque it, it comes apart, causing failure. There is a reason for torque spec's.

 

[BLK HOLE]

Got a 2.5 rough country lift, 35 in tires/fuel wheels.

Found your problem.


And track bars don't change ride quality unless the previous bar was worn.

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