Let Us Hear That You Want Core Doors!

[BonesDT]

I don't think there is any ambiguity or mystery here. Although I am extremely disappointed Core doors will not be made for the JL/JT, at least in the foreseeable future, I have to applaud Bestop for communicating and being frank and transparent in this thread. I think it's very clear that they stated they do not think there is enough interest to profit from making them and therefore, at the moment, they have ZERO plans to make them. Whether that changes in a year, we'll have to monitor. Why would they bother creating this thread to gauge interest if they already had marching orders from Mopar? Also, Mopar's half-doors are a very different style from Core doors, I don't think they are competing in the same space and factory half-doors have never halted Bestop products for all past gen Jeeps.

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[Dqban]

They can do market research, that doesnt mean mopar wont impose rules on them in order to secure an order or contract. I disagree that the core doors would not be direct competition for the mopar half doors....i was certainly cross shopping them as were others on the forum. Besttop can state what ever they want...i doubt they would openly admit anything about their arrangements with Jeep/mopar that didnt benefit them.
Ever wonder why they dont sell the soft top themselves instead of building it for oem?

i can totally imagine a scenario where mopar says "you want the contract as an oem soft top supplier? Then delay your competing product (core doors)so we can make money off ours first (half doors.)". Bestop has indeed been candid but why should anyone expect them to divulge all their business dealings on an internet forum? We only know what they choose to tell us.

This does not make either company shady or deceitful, its just none of our business...its literally theirs.

I have no inside information....this is just a theory.

 

[eaglerugby04]

I just wish we could get a maybe late 22 instead of open ended answers. I really need this and would like to at least have some way to either wait or move on.

 

[Ray F.]

Because the doors are cast aluminum, meaning they come from a mold. Actually 4 different, very expensive, molds.

We also have a very high standard when it comes to our products so the thought of simply "making it work" so-to-speak isn't up to our standards. We would aim for a precision fit as we did with the JK - not an adapted afterthought.

I understand there's a lot of frustration around this topic but I hope you can understand and respect that this is a big decision for Bestop and we will move forward when the time is right for us to do so.

Lee
- the Bestop team
www.bestop.com

I hope this very high standard is better than the one used on the soft doors. To say they couldn’t be made to fit is an understatement. Never had a problem with Bestop soft doors on my old CJs. China really screwed your Q/A up.

 

[Bestop]

I hope this very high standard is better than the one used on the soft doors. To say they couldn’t be made to fit is an understatement. Never had a problem with Bestop soft doors on my old CJs. China really screwed your Q/A up.

I'm not sure what China has to do with our Soft Doors but I do hope you contact our Customer Service team with the issues you're experiencing with your Soft Doors, sorry for the trouble.

Lee
- the Bestop team
www.bestop.com

 

[CJ5w4wdSmokyOnMyTail]

I'm not sure what China has to do with our Soft Doors but I do hope you contact our Customer Service team with the issues you're experiencing with your Soft Doors, sorry for the trouble.

Lee
- the Bestop team
www.bestop.com

Hey, Lee, can you tell me how much a core door weighs compared to a soft door? (On the JK, since core doors are not yet available for the JL/JT). Thanks!

 

[Ray F.]

I'm not sure what China has to do with our Soft Doors but I do hope you contact our Customer Service team with the issues you're experiencing with your Soft Doors, sorry for the trouble.

Lee
- the Bestop team
www.bestop.com

I did. They asked for measurements. I provided. They asked for more. I provided more. They asked for more, yet. I gave more…yet. Still have the email
chain if you want it, but I’d have to request quid pro quo…..like maybe committing a Bestop team be made locally available to fit my doors to my Gladiator. I’ve posted here before and showed the pics of the 1” gap at the front lower corners with all settings made. Simply said, horrible fitment. Maybe it’s not that they’re Chinese made with the business approach of its cheaper to replace than get it right the first time. Maybe some over-paid Americans made the doors on a Friday with happy hour on their minds. I tend, however, that its the former. I’ve had a CJ5, CJ7 and (2) CJ8s. NEVER had a Bestop soft door that left a gap (much less a solid inch). Too many people with problems with these door that are charged at a premium. Its not like the door opening dimensions are LESS consistent than the 80s. Sometimes, Lee, its just better for a business to say, we messed this one up and we’re gonna fix it to restore confidence. I guess this isn’t one of those times. My doors went back, but I post just in case somebody has the “My Pillow” mentality and is willing to make a better product for a few hundred dollars more than Bestop is demanding for a substandard product. Nothing personal, Lee, but the first company who make soft doors for 2020 models at 1980s tolerances for $1500 or less stands to make a lot of money.

 

[DaveNH]

And to me something looks off for the rear doors and how they line up.

They were obviously designed for the JL, where they do line up with the rear tub.

In the JT, the top of the bed walls are higher, so there's that vertical jog up where the door ends.

In the same way as Jeep wasn't going to design a JT specific rear door (where the angle on the trailing edge is unnecessary), they obviously wouldn't have a different rear half door either.

 

[zuke]

I did. They asked for measurements. I provided. They asked for more. I provided more. They asked for more, yet. I gave more…yet. Still have the email
chain if you want it, but I’d have to request quid pro quo…..like maybe committing a Bestop team be made locally available to fit my doors to my Gladiator. I’ve posted here before and showed the pics of the 1” gap at the front lower corners with all settings made. Simply said, horrible fitment. Maybe it’s not that they’re Chinese made with the business approach of its cheaper to replace than get it right the first time. Maybe some over-paid Americans made the doors on a Friday with happy hour on their minds. I tend, however, that its the former. I’ve had a CJ5, CJ7 and (2) CJ8s. NEVER had a Bestop soft door that left a gap (much less a solid inch). Too many people with problems with these door that are charged at a premium. Its not like the door opening dimensions are LESS consistent than the 80s. Sometimes, Lee, its just better for a business to say, we messed this one up and we’re gonna fix it to restore confidence. I guess this isn’t one of those times. My doors went back, but I post just in case somebody has the “My Pillow” mentality and is willing to make a better product for a few hundred dollars more than Bestop is demanding for a substandard product. Nothing personal, Lee, but the first company who make soft doors for 2020 models at 1980s tolerances for $1500 or less stands to make a lot of money.

While I don't really want to be put in the position of defending Bestop on this.... CJ's had a nice tall flat sill on the side, Being designed to have soft doors on them from the get go... So it was a lot easier to get a seal around them than on a JK or JL/JT, that were designed for hard doors and soft doors weren't even a thought on the designers mind, so they were designed with almost no vertical sealing face at all, and rely on the seal being able to sit horizontally instead.

Bestop DOES have local teams dedicated to installing and fitting their products to your jeep, But it's an extra service, and I believe they are local independent contractors, so I hear the results can be variable.

Point being, I don't think you can really compare anything that fit on a CJ to a modern Jeep... It's just not the same thing.

I have Bestop soft doors on my JKU, I got them to fit fairly decent, but they still aren't near as weather tight as the ones I've had on IH Scouts (Also from Bestop) and as such, I know better than to buy them for my JT.

I have Core Doors on my JK 2 door, and they fit great, If Bestop comes out with them for the JT, and I haven't already gotten factory Half doors, I'll be in line to buy them.

 

[rafaelsmith]

While I don't really want to be put in the position of defending Bestop on this.... CJ's had a nice tall flat sill on the side, Being designed to have soft doors on them from the get go... So it was a lot easier to get a seal around them than on a JK or JL/JT, that were designed for hard doors and soft doors weren't even a thought on the designers mind, so they were designed with almost no vertical sealing face at all, and rely on the seal being able to sit horizontally instead.

Bestop DOES have local teams dedicated to installing and fitting their products to your jeep, But it's an extra service, and I believe they are local independent contractors, so I hear the results can be variable.

Point being, I don't think you can really compare anything that fit on a CJ to a modern Jeep... It's just not the same thing.

I have Bestop soft doors on my JKU, I got them to fit fairly decent, but they still aren't near as weather tight as the ones I've had on IH Scouts (Also from Bestop) and as such, I know better than to buy them for my JT.

I have Core Doors on my JK 2 door, and they fit great, If Bestop comes out with them for the JT, and I haven't already gotten factory Half doors, I'll be in line to buy them.

I suppose I can see your point but its hard to look past spending hundreds or thousands of $$$ for a product that fits like crap.

I had Bestop softdoors/uppers on my JK and they were horrible....I think I tried using them twice and then took them to the dump. Swore never again.

I love the Bestop Sunrider for Hardtop....a quality product that fits well...has yet to leak whatsoever. Its pricey but I do not regret spending the money. By comparison, their "door" solutions in my opinion really make them look bad.

 

[zuke]

I had Bestop softdoors/uppers on my JK and they were horrible....I think I tried using them twice and then took them to the dump. Swore never again.

Oh, I 100% agree that from a daily driver perspective they are worthless, anything over 60mph and the uppers pull away from the the window frame, and you might as well not have them at all, But as a fair weather item you can stuff in the back of the jeep for the occasional storm they work well.

I love the Bestop Sunrider for Hardtop....a quality product that fits well...has yet to leak whatsoever. Its pricey but I do not regret spending the money. By comparison, their "door" solutions in my opinion really make them look bad.

Yeah, the variability of their products is wide, The Element doors with enclosures, soft doors, and Bikini tops are all disappointing products, while the Core doors and all the soft top products seem to be great, even the TJ Uppers for factory half doors seem to work and seal very well.

I think maybe they just need to do a better job of giving the consumers proper expectations of what the products can and can't do. While the Soft Doors might seem expensive for what they are, I don't think they could reasonably make them much less expensive, if they could, Rampage would be making them, or Bestop would sell them under the Pavement Ends brand name for less.

 

[Ray F.]

While I don't really want to be put in the position of defending Bestop on this.... CJ's had a nice tall flat sill on the side, Being designed to have soft doors on them from the get go... So it was a lot easier to get a seal around them than on a JK or JL/JT, that were designed for hard doors and soft doors weren't even a thought on the designers mind, so they were designed with almost no vertical sealing face at all, and rely on the seal being able to sit horizontally instead.

Bestop DOES have local teams dedicated to installing and fitting their products to your jeep, But it's an extra service, and I believe they are local independent contractors, so I hear the results can be variable.

Point being, I don't think you can really compare anything that fit on a CJ to a modern Jeep... It's just not the same thing.

I have Bestop soft doors on my JKU, I got them to fit fairly decent, but they still aren't near as weather tight as the ones I've had on IH Scouts (Also from Bestop) and as such, I know better than to buy them for my JT.

I have Core Doors on my JK 2 door, and they fit great, If Bestop comes out with them for the JT, and I haven't already gotten factory Half doors, I'll be in line to buy them.

A fair point on the CJ surface being relatively 2-dimensional, however, my (as well as numerous others) have had issues with the 2-dimensional aspect being WAY off. There’s simply no reasonable excuse why these dims are that far off….especially at their price point. Laser tech is cheap and makes the burden of designing irrelevant in 2D or 3D. I can get a set of floor mats that fit like a glove for $40, but I can’t get a set of doors that don’t leave a 1” gap along the bottom for $1400? After its understood that the design of a door is cost-effectively resolvable, its literally a matter of welding pre-bent wire in a jig.

 

[zuke]

A fair point on the CJ surface being relatively 2-dimensional, however, my (as well as numerous others) have had issues with the 2-dimensional aspect being WAY off. There’s simply no reasonable excuse why these dims are that far off….especially at their price point. Laser tech is cheap and makes the burden of designing irrelevant in 2D or 3D. I can get a set of floor mats that fit like a glove for $40, but I can’t get a set of doors that don’t leave a 1” gap along the bottom for $1400? After its understood that the design of a door is cost-effectively resolvable, its literally a matter of welding pre-bent wire in a jig.

As I said, i didn't want to be in the position of defending Bestop... You think they're a bad deal, I don't... (but I was able to bend the hinge wires and others enough that I don't have a 1" gap at the bottom)

I think rather than invest in the kind of re-tool you suggest, they would be more likely to discontinue the product, We aren't as big a market as we think we are

 

[Bestop]

Hey, Lee, can you tell me how much a core door weighs compared to a soft door? (On the JK, since core doors are not yet available for the JL/JT). Thanks!

Hey @CJ5w4wdSmokyOnMyTail
If I were to guess, each lower of the 2 piece soft door is probably 5 lbs whereas each Core Door lower is closer to 20 lbs. It's steel wire frame and material versus burly cast aluminum. Hope that helps and let me know if there are other questions!

Lee
- the Bestop team
www.bestop.com

 

[Ray F.]

I’m not accusing you of defending Bestop. I’m just saying that if Bestop is claiming a “Very high standard” was used to make their soft doors, their use of that same standard in the design and fabrication of Core doors would be enlightening to we few in this tiny little market.

I’d consider buying a product from Bestop, however, I’d wait a few months after the product’s release to see if there’s a common problem…..such as fitment. My experience with the soft doors warrants it.

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