Gupton Motors up to 8% below invoice

[Litfuse]

Yes, please! I edited my post to make that clear, thanks!

It’s almost hard to keep up with all the new restaurants that pop up in St. Louis. We have two things, Cardinals baseball and food. Lol. Pappy’s is a staple in St. Louis, but a lot of people are gravitating to some newer names on the block. Salt + Smoke is getting a lot of press. The Beast (just across the river on the Illinois side) has a huge following.

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[aceisback]

Everyone is assuming buyers are knowledgeable about the buying process. We are upset with our local dealers when they can’t match one of the volume dealers. Most buyers don’t travel to get a vehicle for the best price. They want convenience. They go to their local dealer and pay what they are asking. And you know what, that works for the smaller dealership. You don’t see them go out of business because of lack of sales. The prey on the uneducated.

Which brings the question, how much profit do Gupton and the other dealers doing this make on these special orders? I’m about 100% positive that they are not losing money on these transactions.
I’m a Retired Marine and fixing to retire again from Civil Service. Walked in to our local Jeep dealer (two towns away) with a spread sheet for what I want to order. I assumed a $500 doc fee just to be on the safe side. I had one for -8%, -6%, and-4% for comparisons sake. Spoke directly with the dealership owner. He looked over the spread sheets, said “we’re not a non profit”, then didn’t even try to counter offer.
I said you have thousands of young Marines that have never had money or a car to do that with. He turned and walked away. Guess I won’t be purchasing there.

 

[Litfuse]

Which brings the question, how much profit do Gupton and the other dealers doing this make on these special orders? I’m about 100% positive that they are not losing money on these transactions.
I’m a Retired Marine and fixing to retire again from Civil Service. Walked in to our local Jeep dealer (two towns away) with a spread sheet for what I want to order. I assumed a $500 doc fee just to be on the safe side. I had one for -8%, -6%, and-4% for comparisons sake. Spoke directly with the dealership owner. He looked over the spread sheets, said “we’re not a non profit”, then didn’t even try to counter offer.
I said you have thousands of young Marines that have never had money or a car to do that with. He turned and walked away. Guess I won’t be purchasing there.

In addition to the doc fee, which is 100% profit, dealers get rewarded by the manufacture for volume. Quite handsomely at that. Push volume and keep your footprint small is a good business model.

 

[2kXJ]

Which brings the question, how much profit do Gupton and the other dealers doing this make on these special orders? I’m about 100% positive that they are not losing money on these transactions.
I’m a Retired Marine and fixing to retire again from Civil Service. Walked in to our local Jeep dealer (two towns away) with a spread sheet for what I want to order. I assumed a $500 doc fee just to be on the safe side. I had one for -8%, -6%, and-4% for comparisons sake. Spoke directly with the dealership owner. He looked over the spread sheets, said “we’re not a non profit”, then didn’t even try to counter offer.
I said you have thousands of young Marines that have never had money or a car to do that with. He turned and walked away. Guess I won’t be purchasing there.

From my research, it seems that ever since the internet came around and people could find invoice prices on cars within a few seconds, manufactures and dealers have gone to extreme lengths to hide profits and actual dealers cost. It’s a giant convoluted mystery. Most owners/top execs at the dealership are the only few who actually know what a cars real cost is and what factory incentives they are eligible for, which is different for every dealer. There are so many factors involved, you couldn’t ever figure it out without privileged info. If you’re haggling a deal with a car on the lot, there’s quite a bit of luck involved too. You can can spend a week working a deal on a car, and the next week some joe blow off the street can get a better deal without having to haggle because the dealership needs that one car to sell, that day, in order to hit the next incentive.

 

[Challenger85]

In addition to the doc fee, which is 100% profit, dealers get rewarded by the manufacture for volume. Quite handsomely at that. Push volume and keep your footprint small is a good business model.

Bingo! Volume sales. Horsham, Granger etc all doing it with the Broncos. Every dealer in the United States, “that’s a scam!” “You’ll never get a car!!!”

They’re making money…they’re just doing it by not pissing people off. All while building relationships with repeat customers and word of mouth without an ounce of marketing. Work smarter, not harder.

 

[flsupraguy]

I like this thread detour, lol.

Hell yeah. We should make it a forum rule if you use Guyton you have to post a pic of your gladiator at that pizza place.

 

[flsupraguy]

Which brings the question, how much profit do Gupton and the other dealers doing this make on these special orders? I’m about 100% positive that they are not losing money on these transactions.
I’m a Retired Marine and fixing to retire again from Civil Service. Walked in to our local Jeep dealer (two towns away) with a spread sheet for what I want to order. I assumed a $500 doc fee just to be on the safe side. I had one for -8%, -6%, and-4% for comparisons sake. Spoke directly with the dealership owner. He looked over the spread sheets, said “we’re not a non profit”, then didn’t even try to counter offer.
I said you have thousands of young Marines that have never had money or a car to do that with. He turned and walked away. Guess I won’t be purchasing there.

Shouldn't matter if you are marine, young, old, female, male, rich, poor, ect The dealer owes you nothing, it is a business and he is there to make a profit so I agree with him. From an owner perspective they choose what is the minimum PROFIT they are deciding to come to terms with. Some dealers try to maximize profit in every deal, some push volume to get bonuses, more inventory, ect. They don't deal with all this bs from people and invest millions in infrastructure for a charity...... People always say dealers aren't loyal to their customers... newsflash, customers aren't loyal either. 99% of the time it is about the bottom line. This is the harsh reality of life and the sooner people understand it things will be more clear to them. Sorry, rant off.

 

[balucipher]

Bingo! Volume sales. Horsham, Granger etc all doing it with the Broncos. Every dealer in the United States, “that’s a scam!” “You’ll never get a car!!!”

They’re making money…they’re just doing it by not pissing people off. All while building relationships with repeat customers and word of mouth without an ounce of marketing. Work smarter, not harder.

I'm going to end up buying three vehicles from Tom at Chapman in Horsham because of these deals. I hope he makes a ton of money moving volume and giving people fair deals

 

[Litfuse]

Shouldn't matter if you are marine, young, old, female, male, rich, poor, ect The dealer owes you nothing, it is a business and he is there to make a profit so I agree with him. From an owner perspective they choose what is the minimum PROFIT they are deciding to come to terms with. Some dealers try to maximize profit in every deal, some push volume to get bonuses, more inventory, ect. They don't deal with all this bs from people and invest millions in infrastructure for a charity...... People always say dealers aren't loyal to their customers... newsflash, customers aren't loyal either. 99% of the time it is about the bottom line. This is the harsh reality of life and the sooner people understand it things will be more clear to them. Sorry, rant off.

You are absolutely right. Every dealer creates their own business model. You either take it or leave it!

 

[2kXJ]

You are absolutely right. Every dealer creates their own business model. You either take it or leave it!

Yep, they can tell you to pound sand, just like we can tell them to pound sand.

 

[aceisback]

Shouldn't matter if you are marine, young, old, female, male, rich, poor, ect The dealer owes you nothing, it is a business and he is there to make a profit so I agree with him. From an owner perspective they choose what is the minimum PROFIT they are deciding to come to terms with. Some dealers try to maximize profit in every deal, some push volume to get bonuses, more inventory, ect. They don't deal with all this bs from people and invest millions in infrastructure for a charity...... People always say dealers aren't loyal to their customers... newsflash, customers aren't loyal either. 99% of the time it is about the bottom line. This is the harsh reality of life and the sooner people understand it things will be more clear to them. Sorry, rant off.

Very true, and I wasn’t expecting a handout, but to not even try to come up with some sort of counteroffer was off putting. Might be the reason there were only two of us customers on the entire lot. Just because you are the only dealer in over an hours drive doesn’t mean you should be unpleasant.
They used to be a six brand dealer and are now down to two. Seem to be drying up and blowing away. Started way before the chicom flu. Maybe some profit is better than none????

 

[flsupraguy]

Very true, and I wasn’t expecting a handout, but to not even try to come up with some sort of counteroffer was off putting. Might be the reason there were only two of us customers on the entire lot. Just because you are the only dealer in over an hours drive doesn’t mean you should be unpleasant.
They used to be a six brand dealer and are now down to two. Seem to be drying up and blowing away. Started way before the chicom flu. Maybe some profit is better than none????

I completely agree that they did not handle things in a professional matter however you are thinking in a microeconomic situation. "Some profit is better that none". Perhaps, they have a limited number of items in their inventory and to keep their lights on they have a higher minimum profit then the mega volume dealer? There are so many factors. Some dealers only get so much inventory due to politics, supply and demand, ect that there is so much more than one tiny transaction at stake. Im just playing devils advocate because the average consumer has no idea how dealerships are ran on the financial side. This is the beauty of this country, you dont have to do business with them and they don't have to do business with you. You only want to pay so much, and they have a number that they have to sell it for. This is true from widgets, cars, computers, ect.

 

[Rein89]

I agree with everyone's comments on the profit Gupton makes, just wanted to add one more thing to the list. And that is:

Surveys
Having worked in a dealer for a vast majority of my career, I know that surveys not only get the dealer(and managers) extra dough, but special privilages as well. For some brands it means additional allotment of special cars and or orders. On the flip side bad surveys are what gets employees fired and dealer licenses revoked.

 

[flsupraguy]

I agree with everyone's comments on the profit Gupton makes, just wanted to add one more thing to the list. And that is:

Surveys
Having worked in a dealer for a vast majority of my career, I know that surveys not only get the dealer(and managers) extra dough, but special privilages as well. For some brands it means additional allotment of special cars and or orders. On the flip side bad surveys are what gets employees fired and dealer licenses revoked.

It does seem that everything is going to surveys. Some for better, some for worse.

 

[Rein89]

It does seem that everything is going to surveys. Some for better, some for worse.

Mostly for the worst, too many people use them as leverage to take advantage of good people. While many deserve them.

What has been Daniels response time been like the last couple weeks? I know he has to sort through a whole bunch of emails so I don't want to bug him, I just don't know how long I should wait to try and get in contact with him. I emailed him Friday to get my order in.

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