Jeep ceo…. Wants zero emission freedom brand

[4x4Therror]

Sorry but IMO, that's almost funny.... capture a GAS in a filter, capture a LOT of gas in a filter. Dispose of said filter. And now - what to do with all of those filters full of CO2 (even if you could find a way to capture CO2 in a disposable filter)

Sorry friend but gases are captured(filtered) through a medium all the time. Your intake does it with the outside air.

Actually there are about 19 facilities that do just that "capture a GAS in a filter." It is called "Direct Air Capture" so the tech is there. Additionally, carbon from these facilities are being used to enhance concrete (making it stronger and last longer). Gotta start thinking outside of the box chief.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Sorry friend but gases are captured(filtered) through a medium all the time. Your intake does it with the outside air.

Actually there are about 19 facilities that do just that "capture a GAS in a filter." It is called "Direct Air Capture" so the tech is there. Additionally, carbon from these facilities are being used to enhance concrete (making it stronger and last longer). Gotta start thinking outside of the box chief.

God, I've always hated that fukn phrase, made up by management to get employees to be creative. For people like me there's no bloody box and never has been. There are no limits, no barriers and no freakin' box. I'd like to find and burn all of those management texts that talk of boxes and multi-tasking which is also humanly impossible as proven by major university studies.
Anyway.......
That filter at the end of the intake captures particles, it passes air - or gases. It's not capturing air. You don't clean the air out of it, you don't recover any gases from it. It's basically a paper filter capturing anything smaller than xx microns (you hope).
Yeah, you can filter gases when you filter down to the molecular size, but something small enough for an automobile??

Yes there's tech - but look at the scale required and the amount of a gas like CO2.
Imagine the cost of using lithium hydroxide to capture CO2 from the exhaust. Bet that's cheap and small.

Imagine the size of a membrane to do such a thing.

You are talking things for a grand scale, not a tail pipe on a consumer level.

It's not even cost effective on an industrial level at this point. They have to filter out other sizes of molecules - take out other gases. There's H2O and CO2 going out that pipe, it's not a matter of catching the CO2, it's how to do it and let other gases pass, or filter out the other gases so the CO2 can be caught later, alone. That takes a lot of space and process.
Right now most CO2 capturing is done via solvents, a chemical reaction.
Existing carbon dioxide extractors have mostly only worked on the high concentrations found in power plant exhausts.
Everything so far requires scale of economy, and size making it prohibitive for automotive use. There's not anything - yet - that could be scaled to automotive use in size - and the technology - so far - is cost prohibitive.
Not saying impossible for the future - but by then, we won't have your typical ICE power plants.

 

[WILDHOBO]

God, I've always hated that fukn phrase, made up by management to get employees to be creative. For people like me there's no bloody box and never has been. There are no limits, no barriers and no freakin' box. I'd like to find and burn all of those management texts that talk of boxes and multi-tasking which is also humanly impossible as proven by major university studies.
Anyway.......
That filter at the end of the intake captures particles, it passes air - or gases. It's not capturing air. You don't clean the air out of it, you don't recover any gases from it. It's basically a paper filter capturing anything smaller than xx microns (you hope).
Yeah, you can filter gases when you filter down to the molecular size, but something small enough for an automobile??

Yes there's tech - but look at the scale required and the amount of a gas like CO2.
Imagine the cost of using lithium hydroxide to capture CO2 from the exhaust. Bet that's cheap and small.

Imagine the size of a membrane to do such a thing.

You are talking things for a grand scale, not a tail pipe on a consumer level.

It's not even cost effective on an industrial level at this point. They have to filter out other sizes of molecules - take out other gases. There's H2O and CO2 going out that pipe, it's not a matter of catching the CO2, it's how to do it and let other gases pass, or filter out the other gases so the CO2 can be caught later, alone. That takes a lot of space and process.
Right now most CO2 capturing is done via solvents, a chemical reaction.
Existing carbon dioxide extractors have mostly only worked on the high concentrations found in power plant exhausts.
Everything so far requires scale of economy, and size making it prohibitive for automotive use. There's not anything - yet - that could be scaled to automotive use in size - and the technology - so far - is cost prohibitive.
Not saying impossible for the future - but by then, we won't have your typical ICE power plants.

Said better than I could have. I love it when logic enters in.

 

[4x4Therror]

God, I've always hated that fukn phrase, made up by management to get employees to be creative. For people like me there's no bloody box and never has been. There are no limits, no barriers and no freakin' box. I'd like to find and burn all of those management texts that talk of boxes and multi-tasking which is also humanly impossible as proven by major university studies.
Anyway.......
That filter at the end of the intake captures particles, it passes air - or gases. It's not capturing air. You don't clean the air out of it, you don't recover any gases from it. It's basically a paper filter capturing anything smaller than xx microns (you hope).
Yeah, you can filter gases when you filter down to the molecular size, but something small enough for an automobile??

Yes there's tech - but look at the scale required and the amount of a gas like CO2.
Imagine the cost of using lithium hydroxide to capture CO2 from the exhaust. Bet that's cheap and small.

Imagine the size of a membrane to do such a thing.

You are talking things for a grand scale, not a tail pipe on a consumer level.

It's not even cost effective on an industrial level at this point. They have to filter out other sizes of molecules - take out other gases. There's H2O and CO2 going out that pipe, it's not a matter of catching the CO2, it's how to do it and let other gases pass, or filter out the other gases so the CO2 can be caught later, alone. That takes a lot of space and process.
Right now most CO2 capturing is done via solvents, a chemical reaction.
Existing carbon dioxide extractors have mostly only worked on the high concentrations found in power plant exhausts.
Everything so far requires scale of economy, and size making it prohibitive for automotive use. There's not anything - yet - that could be scaled to automotive use in size - and the technology - so far - is cost prohibitive.
Not saying impossible for the future - but by then, we won't have your typical ICE power plants.

So first you went from; how funny it was to suggest capturing(filtering) a gas through a filter(medium). To; It is possible but not scalable. Your 15mins of "googling" does not make you a chemistry expert. How about instead of poking fun at other people's suggestions you come up with your own

 

[WILDHOBO]

So first you went from; how funny it was to suggest capturing(filtering) a gas through a filter(medium). To; It is possible but not scalable. Your 15mins of "googling" does not make you a chemistry expert. How about instead of poking fun at other people's suggestions you come up with your own

Did you read his explanation? Is there a thumbs down button I’m not seeing?

 

[4x4Therror]

Did you read his explanation? Is there a thumbs down button I’m not seeing?

All I'm saying is it is great to hate on everyone else when you have no ideas of your own...I tell you what. Since you and @ShadowsPapa are such experts, why not get together and design the next 0 emissions vehicle with unlimited range.

 

[ShastaJT6]

That all works out until you see your cost to insure the ev and your electric bill. Oh and by the way have fun installing a 60-90 amp circuit in yr garage if youbdont want to wait 12 hours to charge. Oh and by the way you cant park it in the garage and charge at same time for fear of a lithium fire. Oh and by the way imagine every person on your block for miles pulling the same current as they charge overnight while its summer time and everyone has their a/c on. Ever hear of brown outs? Electric cars are a meme. Where does everyone think all this electricity to fuel this is coming from? If you think renewable you are dead wrong. Oh and. By the way- Where is all the toxic lithium to be mined for the precious batteries? Who are the top producers of lithium and battery manufacturing? Ask these questions to yourself. All you pro EV people are well off for the most part. But you think people who make 20k a year and live in an apartment complex are going ev???

I try really hard to avoid getting into any arguments here, I really enjoy the generally positive tone of this forum, but I also understand that I was walking into deep water by commenting on this thread.

I have received quotes from my insurance and would be at break even or saving money vs my current gas expenses, depending on which vehicle I go with.

No installation would be necessary, my workplace offers free charging.

I understand that EVs are not for everyone and not suitable in every situation - as I said, I certainly wouldn't take one off road, and I wouldn't want it as my ONLY transportation, but in my case it would work out.

You have made lots of different points about EVs that aren't really relevant to me. I don't particularly care if it's cleaner or not, or where the lithium is sourced, or if some broke person in an apartment can afford one, as long as it saves me money and makes my jeep last longer I'm happy. I'm sure there are people who feel differently but hey, different strokes for different folks!

 

[Sazabi19]

I'll take pics of my setup one of these days......can't trench concrete.

Some would say "go under it". I'll show how that's not possible for a few of us here.



Sorry but IMO, that's almost funny.... capture a GAS in a filter, capture a LOT of gas in a filter. Dispose of said filter. And now - what to do with all of those filters full of CO2 (even if you could find a way to capture CO2 in a disposable filter)

Biodiesel is fine for the input but the output is still dirty, in some ways (although cleaner than standard petrol diesel for sure) You are still generating CO2 and with diesel, other outputs.

Biodiesel actually puts out more NOX emissions at present and is much more expensive to produce.
This is from one study on biodiesel and NOX -
higher bulk modulus of biodiesel leads to increased cetane number and advanced injection, which results in earlier start of combustion; this yields longer resident time and higher in-cylinder temperature which may increase NOX emission.

Biofuels are a solvent and therefore can harm rubber hoses in some engines.

Force companies to have large green spaces they manage, take the polution at the stacks and pump it through lines to release in said green spaces. Release it below the trees and let the trees work their magic to turn it into sweet sweet purified air. We'll probably just need several hundred acres per factory... hmmm.

 

[Sazabi19]

I try really hard to avoid getting into any arguments here, I really enjoy the generally positive tone of this forum, but I also understand that I was walking into deep water by commenting on this thread.

I have received quotes from my insurance and would be at break even or saving money vs my current gas expenses, depending on which vehicle I go with.

No installation would be necessary, my workplace offers free charging.

I understand that EVs are not for everyone and not suitable in every situation - as I said, I certainly wouldn't take one off road, and I wouldn't want it as my ONLY transportation, but in my case it would work out.

You have made lots of different points about EVs that aren't really relevant to me. I don't particularly care if it's cleaner or not, or where the lithium is sourced, or if some broke person in an apartment can afford one, as long as it saves me money and makes my jeep last longer I'm happy. I'm sure there are people who feel differently but hey, different strokes for different folks!

Wait, are you talking about YOUR individual circumstances and YOUR personal opinion for YOU at this moment? That's retarded, quit. You speak only in infititves and for EVERYONE or don't post anything at all!

 

[RavensEyeOffroad]

We know it's cronyism because the American people are the number one target of environmental regulation instead of dirty chinese manufacturing.

We are not building affordable EV's in America without major government subsidies.

Iam the perfect candidate for an EV. 15 minute commute to work, plug in at night and never have to visit a gas pump would be awesome. I think solid state batteries could push EV to the next level of practicality and its exciting but I don't want to be forced into anything which is what progressive politics is. Forcing others into your ideas. Totalitarian light.

it feels very much like government is creating a problem to sell us a solution to line their pockets (mostly china's).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Force companies to have large green spaces they manage, take the polution at the stacks and pump it through lines to release in said green spaces. Release it below the trees and let the trees work their magic to turn it into sweet sweet purified air. We'll probably just need several hundred acres per factory... hmmm.

HAHA - And in the process, cool the planet because the evaporation effect of trees - oh, wait, then you have the problem Iowa has, extreme dew point temperatures from all the green.
And when the trees die - all of that carbon is released again.

as long as it saves me money and makes my jeep last longer I'm happy.

As far as 'some broke person in an apartment' affording one - until most people can handle them, they'll be expensive to buy, own, repair, maintain. We'd better hope that they become more mainstream if you like them. Massive ownership is about all that will drive the expensive solutions and improvements.
Check out the current regs and what's happened to the auto makers "incentives and support" from government - evaporating. Ya think it will save you money personally if the industry flounders?
Until there are solutions to some of the issues facing the EV industry or new style systems, they'll remain expensive problems destined to fail or be reserved for only those who have new homes and can afford them. That's not horrible, there may be enough "rich people in expensive houses" that can support the industry short term, but our government is removing help to the auto makers so don't look for them to be cheaper of development to move along quickly except by foreign companies. Even VW is balking at the US's removal of "incentives" to auto makers. Gee, aren't they a German company at heart? What happens here impacts them.
EVs are cheap here now not only because of incentives on the consumer end but because government is subsidizing development and manufacturing of such vehicles. Looks like some of that is going away. So the up-front costs will jump and the consumer end may not be as nice as it once was.
So to off-set that, these need to be sold to the masses, economies of scale is needed.
We'd better make charging fast, easy, reliable, cheap, and where it's needed by the masses.

 

[Ankh]

A century ago, Captain Scott and his team set out on a doomed race to be first to the South Pole. They failed in this quest - but that wasn't all they were doing in this mysterious ice-bound land. Among the fossils he collected was an ancient beech tree. Some would call this proof that this planet goes through warming and cooling cycles.

I say always be innovating. Let's also consider that nature (or what/whoever created us) is probably stronger than man.

 

[ShastaJT6]

Wait, are you talking about YOUR individual circumstances and YOUR personal opinion for YOU at this moment? That's retarded, quit. You speak only in infititves and for EVERYONE or don't post anything at all!

Right?! I get it though, this is a topic that folks feel very strongly about and I should have stayed out of haha.

HAHA - And in the process, cool the planet because the evaporation effect of trees - oh, wait, then you have the problem Iowa has, extreme dew point temperatures from all the green.
And when the trees die - all of that carbon is released again.



As far as 'some broke person in an apartment' affording one - until most people can handle them, they'll be expensive to buy, own, repair, maintain. We'd better hope that they become more mainstream if you like them. Massive ownership is about all that will drive the expensive solutions and improvements.
Check out the current regs and what's happened to the auto makers "incentives and support" from government - evaporating. Ya think it will save you money personally if the industry flounders?
Until there are solutions to some of the issues facing the EV industry or new style systems, they'll remain expensive problems destined to fail or be reserved for only those who have new homes and can afford them. That's not horrible, there may be enough "rich people in expensive houses" that can support the industry short term, but our government is removing help to the auto makers so don't look for them to be cheaper of development to move along quickly except by foreign companies. Even VW is balking at the US's removal of "incentives" to auto makers. Gee, aren't they a German company at heart? What happens here impacts them.
EVs are cheap here now not only because of incentives on the consumer end but because government is subsidizing development and manufacturing of such vehicles. Looks like some of that is going away. So the up-front costs will jump and the consumer end may not be as nice as it once was.
So to off-set that, these need to be sold to the masses, economies of scale is needed.
We'd better make charging fast, easy, reliable, cheap, and where it's needed by the masses.

I think you and Stratus109 both make very valid points regarding the development and feasibility of mass acceptance of EVs.

That said, and this is not meant to be disrespectful to either of you, I personally don't really care. If I find a deal on one and it saves me money I'll be happy, if it doesn't I won't buy in and will pursue other options. Mass adoption is not my concern, my checkbook is!

 

[Trickster]

How people like to correlate the history of cyclic global temperature fluctuations is amusing.
The amount of pollution humans have created in the last 100 years far exceeds the amount that has been created since the beginning of mankind.
To also refer to the climate issues as “global warming” is incorrect.
With the change of our climate comes extremes, cold, warm and intensities of adverse weather.
Unfortunately it will take a global effort of participation to save the world from further anticipated severe climate changes, and that is a huge undertaking.
Too many naysayers and nonbelievers to get onboard, but every little bit of participation can help instead of hinder what is inevitable with our fragile ecosystems.
It’s real, and it’s happening.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Right?! I get it though, this is a topic that folks feel very strongly about and I should have stayed out of haha.



I think you and Stratus109 both make very valid points regarding the development and feasibility of mass acceptance of EVs.

That said, and this is not meant to be disrespectful to either of you, I personally don't really care. If I find a deal on one and it saves me money I'll be happy, if it doesn't I won't buy in and will pursue other options. Mass adoption is not my concern, my checkbook is!

I can "get" or understand that. You'll smoke 'em if you got 'em and if not, have a drink.
If I was in another place, maybe another time, it would be a stronger consideration for me, but here, where I live, the here and now, it's not going to help me any.
I'm not against in principal and say "go for it" for those who have or would have one.

I like @Ankh post in principal and to avoid this turning into a thread that gets "cancelled", I won't say further except that I bet we'd have some decent off-line discussions just based on his latest post here. (and I don't mean that in a negative way)

I've traveled enough, been to the middle-east, Asia, Alaska, and when I'm in such places I learn and observe - I'm a sponge. I've had some very interesting talks with "natives" (not meaning like some African tribe) and with naturalists. I'll say no more on that.

I love gasoline engines - I am fascinated by them, by their origins, what's been done with them and what the future holds - but I also have been one to take in technology as well.
I wish I was younger because as far as "vehicles", I'm fascinated and can't wait to see what comes next - for the rest of the world, I'm glad I'm as old as I am LOL

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