Convince me to get a GMRS radio

[sass JT]

I got mine a while back.
WROS882

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[OHJeeper]

Ok, antenna question....

I have a Beofeng UV5R that I use for group rides (GMRS frequencies). I bought the stubby 3db Midland antenna, mounted it to the cowl using the Midland NMO kit and ran the coax to the UV5R and used a SMA->UHF converter to connect it. I have not tested Tx/Rx on GMRS yet, but when I tune in one of the NOAA weather stations (not GMRS, but VHF), it's got a lot of static. If I put back on the 6"-ish rubber duck antenna that came with the UV5R it sounds fine, even inside the JT. Is this because the NMO antenna is not really properly tuned for those frequencies, or is there possibly another issue? Just wanted to get some ideas before I go chasing my tail for nothing.

Thanks!

 

[sarguy1941]

The stubby midland antenna is basically a dummy load. Take your antenna and jam it all in a pepper shaker. Not surprised at all the VHF stuff is static. Its not tuned or designed for that at all.

 

[OHJeeper]

The stubby midland antenna is basically a dummy load. Take your antenna and jam it all in a pepper shaker. Not surprised at all the VHF stuff is static. Its not tuned or designed for that at all.

Ok, thanks... that's what I was thinking. Would the 6db whip antenna be a good option, even though it's not tuned for VHF (or maybe it is...)?

 

[Radio Guy]

The typical short stubby NMO antenna (pepper shaker) is UHF only and fairly narrow band, like if tuned for GMRS they won't cover 440 amateur, etc. They work a little worse than a 6" whip and even though advertised as 3dB gain, they have less than 0dB gain. They will not work on VHF or if they do at all will work about like a folded up paper clip.

The 6dB rated UHF antennas about 2 to 2.5ft tall with a coil in the middle are a complete lie, it takes about 8ft of antenna to give 6dBd omni directional gain and these 6dB advertised mobile antennas are really about 2.5dBd gain. Outright lies run rampant in the antenna industry.

You can get a dual band VHF/UHF short pepper shaker style antenna but the performance is really grim. It will pick up some VHF weather channels much better than a UHF only model but nothing like a 16" long VHF whip or taller gain type antenna. A 6dB advertised (lied) antenna with coil in the middle should pick up VHF marine much better than a UHF only stubby but different brands will work a little different.

 

[Simple Man]

WRPD624

it took me all of 25-30 mins to complete and pay for my registration .... about 24-hrs to receive my call sign.

 

[OHJeeper]

The typical short stubby NMO antenna (pepper shaker) is UHF only and fairly narrow band, like if tuned for GMRS they won't cover 440 amateur, etc. They work a little worse than a 6" whip and even though advertised as 3dB gain, they have less than 0dB gain. They will not work on VHF or if they do at all will work about like a folded up paper clip.

The 6dB rated UHF antennas about 2 to 2.5ft tall with a coil in the middle are a complete lie, it takes about 8ft of antenna to give 6dBd omni directional gain and these 6dB advertised mobile antennas are really about 2.5dBd gain. Outright lies run rampant in the antenna industry.

You can get a dual band VHF/UHF short pepper shaker style antenna but the performance is really grim. It will pick up some VHF weather channels much better than a UHF only model but nothing like a 16" long VHF whip or taller gain type antenna. A 6dB advertised (lied) antenna with coil in the middle should pick up VHF marine much better than a UHF only stubby but different brands will work a little different.

Great (and sobering) information.

So, to keep it simple: my primary use will be GMRS and just wanted the VHF as a backup (or for fun, like listening to the ISS). No matter what, it looks like I should swap out the ghost antenna for the whip for GMRS and if I "get lucky" I may be able to get the VHF channels?

 

[Radio Guy]

Great (and sobering) information.

So, to keep it simple: my primary use will be GMRS and just wanted the VHF as a backup (or for fun, like listening to the ISS). No matter what, it looks like I should swap out the ghost antenna for the whip for GMRS and if I "get lucky" I may be able to get the VHF channels?

A 6" UHF whip for GMRS is a pretty bad antenna for receiving VHF weather channels but its better than a stubby. It all depends on how strong the VHF weather channels are in your area. I believe a gain type UHF antenna, a 1/2 wave over 1/2 wave or 5/8 over 5/8 or similar would probably work ok on VHF weather and if I get some time today I can test that.

I will try my 6" UHF whip, a 5dB (lie) gain type and then I'll stick on a 16" VHF whip and get signal strengths for all three and post them. I can receive many different weather channels here from varying distances so it should be a good test.

 

[OHJeeper]

A 6" UHF whip for GMRS is a pretty bad antenna for receiving VHF weather channels but its better than a stubby. It all depends on how strong the VHF weather channels are in your area. I believe a gain type UHF antenna, a 1/2 wave over 1/2 wave or 5/8 over 5/8 or similar would probably work ok on VHF weather and if I get some time today I can test that.

I will try my 6" UHF whip, a 5dB (lie) gain type and then I'll stick on a 16" VHF whip and get signal strengths for all three and post them. I can receive many different weather channels here from varying distances so it should be a good test.

No need to go through all that, unless you're just a geek like me and need an excuse to play ?

The 6" rubber duck works pretty well for VHF (receive at least) and GMRS, but I wanted an external antenna for when I eventually upgrade to a fixed radio. I was going to buy the midland 32" whip, if that helps... I believe that's a 1/2 wave GMRS?

 

[u-joint]

I went through all this back in August. My call sign is WRNS589.

 

[doc-ketamine]

I'm confused by what people are saying about the Ghost stubby antenna here, and the videos from people I trust on YouTube like TrailRecon and Ozark Overland Adventures, who get miles of clear signal with their Midland Ghost.

Unsure who to believe.

 

[Radio Guy]

I'm confused by what people are saying about the Ghost stubby antenna here, and the videos from people I trust on YouTube like TrailRecon and Ozark Overland Adventures, who get miles of clear signal with their Midland Ghost.

Unsure who to believe.

Line of sight with a few watts you might get 100mi to a high performance repeater at the top of a 10,000ft mountain with a 10dB gain antenna on the repeater with proper downtilt. I've accessed a GMRS repeater from a mountain top from roughly 175mi away using a 4 watt hand held with stock 6" whip on the radio. I've also talked to satellites 23,000mi away with a 5 watt radio and a small antenna with about 7dBi gain. UHF will go very far line of sight.

Talking between two vehicles at ground level with buildings and trees in the way is different and with 10 watt radios and stubby antennas you might only get a 5 miles straight down the road in some cases. Much less if hills are in the way. Swap out the stubby antennas for 3ft tall gain types and your range will be much greater and in areas where the stubby has a very weak and noisy signal the big gain type can be very clear.

Antenna location can further degrade range and a stubby on the side of the cowl completely below hood level will have reduced range over the same antenna on top of the hood. A long gain type antenna at roof level with adequate ground plane under it will work way better. Also, Midland antennas in general are not considered very good, you will never see one in actual commercial use like on a police car, fire truck or any city/county/state vehicle. Its a cheap CB/hobby brand. I would rather see people here using better commercial brands.

I test antennas on all sorts of stuff all the time, that's what I do as a hobby. You can ignore what I'm saying but don't be surprised when I talk 30mi down the road to another vehicle on GMRS simplex or 100mi to a repeater when parked next to you and you can only get a few miles.

 

[OHJeeper]

Also, Midland antennas in general are not considered very good, you will never see one in actual commercial use like on a police car, fire truck or any city/county/state vehicle. Its a cheap CB/hobby brand. I would rather see people here using better commercial brands.

Knowing that mine is a cowl-mount (so, basically no ground plane) what GMRS whip would you suggest instead of a Midland that's in a similar price range, if such a thing exists?

 

[Radio Guy]

Knowing that mine is a cowl-mount (so, basically no ground plane) what GMRS whip would you suggest instead of a Midland that's in a similar price range, if such a thing exists?

I will have to look up the price of the Midland and you basically get what you pay for in both performance and longevity. I've used a lot of Maxrad (now PCTEL) gain type UHF antennas like these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223159497781?epid=660932590&hash=item33f557b435:g:5mAAAOSwcbRbqBv8

Also Larsen: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223191186335?hash=item33f73b3b9f:g:l~YAAOSwHlRbxSNE

Antenna Specialists (now Andrew) https://www.ebay.com/itm/124557088470?hash=item1d002e56d6:g:P1AAAOSw~Z9gGjd5

Laird: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223126664447?hash=item33f362b4ff:g:LxkAAOSwISNbifId

These are fairly common commercial brands a reputable radio shop might recommend and there are a few more. You can find these much cheaper new surplus on eBay than the near retail prices shown. The first GMRS mobile antenna I ever used was a Larsen in 1978 and I probably have 30 or more different mobile antennas in the garage at any given time.

 

[OHJeeper]

I will have to look up the price of the Midland and you basically get what you pay for in both performance and longevity. I've used a lot of Maxrad (now PCTEL) gain type UHF antennas like these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223159497781?epid=660932590&hash=item33f557b435:g:5mAAAOSwcbRbqBv8

Also Larsen: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223191186335?hash=item33f73b3b9f:g:l~YAAOSwHlRbxSNE

Antenna Specialists (now Andrew) https://www.ebay.com/itm/124557088470?hash=item1d002e56d6:g:P1AAAOSw~Z9gGjd5

Laird: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223126664447?hash=item33f362b4ff:g:LxkAAOSwISNbifId

These are fairly common commercial brands a reputable radio shop might recommend and there are a few more. You can find these much cheaper new surplus on eBay than the near retail prices shown. The first GMRS mobile antenna I ever used was a Larsen in 1978 and I probably have 30 or more different mobile antennas in the garage at any given time.

Thanks so much! These are all comparable in price to the Midland

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