New Gladiator DW and a Possible Solution?

[tmgarmon]

artsifrtsi The more I'm thinking, the clearer it gets! I have not touched the UCA's! The bushings are definitely in a binding position after 2-1/2" lift. I'll try that and report back.

It never occured to me because with my old JK, I lifted 3" and put new LCA's on. Never touched the uppers and it drove just fine.

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[@californiajeeping]

Everything needs to be loosened and torqued at ride height track bar upper and lowers. Why? Because otherwise your binding the bushings.

 

[Holes]

Everything needs to be loosened and torqued at ride height track bar upper and lowers. Why? Because otherwise your binding the bushings.

Makes sense...
So after installing a 3.5” spring lift, and all the tires are back on... and the truck is sitting on it’s own weight, a guy should crawl under the truck and loosen and retighten the upper and lower control arms and the track bars to eliminate the “stored energy” or binding that has been added to the bushings.
Do I have that correct?
I’m not saying it’s wrong at all. It is actually quite logical. Granted there is a sleeve usually, inside the bushing, that is designed to rotate and/or move to a degree... however when lifting you take the sleeve and bushing outside its “comfort zone” and now it wants to cause problems until you return the equilibrium it was used to.

Does that make sense? @californiajeeping
?

 

[@californiajeeping]

Makes sense...
So after installing a 3.5” spring lift, and all the tires are back on... and the truck is sitting on it’s own weight, a guy should crawl under the truck and loosen and retighten the upper and lower control arms and the track bars to eliminate the “stored energy” or binding that has been added to the bushings.
Do I have that correct?
I’m not saying it’s wrong at all. It is actually quite logical. Granted there is a sleeve usually, inside the bushing, that is designed to rotate and/or move to a degree... however when lifting you take the sleeve and bushing outside its “comfort zone” and now it wants to cause problems until you return the equilibrium it was used to.

Does that make sense? @californiajeeping
?

Unfortunately with the clevite style bushings the sleeve is molded to the bushing with no rotation. teraflex has a specific bushing they use that allows for rotation which improves suspension movement while keeping the soft rubber bushing material to absorb NVH.

Absolutely. In fact here is my method: Adjust control arms to length put everything together with all jam nuts and bolts loose. Torque the jam nuts then drive the vehicle around the yard/shop. Hit some curbs and ruts etc. This settles the springs and control arms. Then I crawl my butt under there and torque the arms.

Never had an issue. I also apply sillicone grease on the bushings if they are clevite or rubber. It keeps noise down.

 

[Holes]

Unfortunately with the clevite style bushings the sleeve is molded to the bushing with no rotation. teraflex has a specific bushing they use that allows for rotation which improves suspension movement while keeping the soft rubber bushing material to absorb NVH.

Absolutely. In fact here is my method: Adjust control arms to length put everything together with all jam nuts and bolts loose. Torque the jam nuts then drive the vehicle around the yard/shop. Hit some curbs and ruts etc. This settles the springs and control arms. Then I crawl my butt under there and torque the arms.

Never had an issue. I also apply sillicone grease on the bushings if they are clevite or rubber. It keeps noise down.

Tricks of the trade me boy, tricks of the trade...
??

 

[Holes]

Unfortunately with the clevite style bushings the sleeve is molded to the bushing with no rotation. teraflex has a specific bushing they use that allows for rotation which improves suspension movement while keeping the soft rubber bushing material to absorb NVH.

Absolutely. In fact here is my method: Adjust control arms to length put everything together with all jam nuts and bolts loose. Torque the jam nuts then drive the vehicle around the yard/shop. Hit some curbs and ruts etc. This settles the springs and control arms. Then I crawl my butt under there and torque the arms.

Never had an issue. I also apply sillicone grease on the bushings if they are clevite or rubber. It keeps noise down.

I was just going to jump up and down on the front and rear bumper a couple dozen times… But driving around the neighborhood jumping everybody’s curbs sounds like it might be quite the opportunity to get to know people.
?

 

[tmgarmon]

Another update.
Loosened and retorqued the UCA's after bouncing the front end up and down quite a bit.
Same result. I have a perfect spot on the freeway by my house to test............Promptly went into DW.
Checked for damage to the ball joints and other by jacking up each side after and giving the tire my all at 6-12 and 9-3.......All seem tight.

There's a poll on the JL forum about DW, I've read through every post.
Seems that the thread is focused on Caster, as the Sport's and Rubicon's have different specs.
The OP found it odd that a greater percentage of Sport's had DW than Rubicon's, even though the Rubicon caster spec is less.

I think it may have more to do with tires.

I am not going to wave the white flag. I bought this Jeep in January as an FCA buyback (and got a good deal because of it). It wasn't for DW, it had a 'Power Down' issue that would drain the batteries.

FCA went to town and did the following:

Replaced igintion switch
Replaced headlamp to dash harness
Replaced valve body control
Replaced shifter
Replaced radio
Reprogrammed Powertrain Control Module
Replaced switch (don't know which one)
Replaced 2x batteries

It now has zero performance issues (with free Stellantis and CNA 88k extended warranty to boot). I accept that the DW with lift is my problem, I created it. I can always just take everything off and put the stock parts back on and be fine, but that's no fun.

As a side note, I drove my brother-in-law's 2019 JLU while on vacation a couple of weeks ago.
His had the same feeling of bouncyness hitting bumps as my JT, just no DW. He's not lifted and has the same tires.
Mine did not DW until lifted/leveled.

Tires....Tires....Tires
Even my mechanic son is screaming at me 'Get wider tires!!"

I've owned a 2dr JK in my previous Jeep life that I lifted and modified for crawling around the AZ desert. manual with 35's, lockers, the whole bit. It treated me well for 180k mi, but definetly was not a comfortable freeway ride. I sold that one on CL to get this one.

OK, I've bored you long enough, question is:

What does everybody think about the Falken tires that come standard on the Rubi? (Bouncy? Sh**ty? you tell me) There are a few sets for sale around me and some feedback would be awesome. I've done the crawler bit and am looking to keep this one 'long road trip' worthy with occasional runs to places like the Sedona, AZ trails (which are really beautiful by the way, if you haven't done them yet. I recommend 'Broken Arrow' for some truly inspiring views) or 'The Backway to Crown King' (look it up if you haven't heard of it) of course taking the bypasses.

 

[Oilburner]

I chased DW on my old TJ for an entire summer, changed Everything. Bought some new BFG a/t's. No more DW. Your results may vary.

 

[tmgarmon]

I chased DW on my old TJ for an entire summer, changed Everything. Bought some new BFG a/t's. No more DW. Your results may vary.

I hear ya............

 

[NachoRuby]

Another update.
Loosened and retorqued the UCA's after bouncing the front end up and down quite a bit.
Same result. I have a perfect spot on the freeway by my house to test............Promptly went into DW.
Checked for damage to the ball joints and other by jacking up each side after and giving the tire my all at 6-12 and 9-3.......All seem tight.

There's a poll on the JL forum about DW, I've read through every post.
Seems that the thread is focused on Caster, as the Sport's and Rubicon's have different specs.
The OP found it odd that a greater percentage of Sport's had DW than Rubicon's, even though the Rubicon caster spec is less.

I think it may have more to do with tires.

I am not going to wave the white flag. I bought this Jeep in January as an FCA buyback (and got a good deal because of it). It wasn't for DW, it had a 'Power Down' issue that would drain the batteries.

FCA went to town and did the following:

Replaced igintion switch
Replaced headlamp to dash harness
Replaced valve body control
Replaced shifter
Replaced radio
Reprogrammed Powertrain Control Module
Replaced switch (don't know which one)
Replaced 2x batteries

It now has zero performance issues (with free Stellantis and CNA 88k extended warranty to boot). I accept that the DW with lift is my problem, I created it. I can always just take everything off and put the stock parts back on and be fine, but that's no fun.

As a side note, I drove my brother-in-law's 2019 JLU while on vacation a couple of weeks ago.
His had the same feeling of bouncyness hitting bumps as my JT, just no DW. He's not lifted and has the same tires.
Mine did not DW until lifted/leveled.

Tires....Tires....Tires
Even my mechanic son is screaming at me 'Get wider tires!!"

I've owned a 2dr JK in my previous Jeep life that I lifted and modified for crawling around the AZ desert. manual with 35's, lockers, the whole bit. It treated me well for 180k mi, but definetly was not a comfortable freeway ride. I sold that one on CL to get this one.

OK, I've bored you long enough, question is:

What does everybody think about the Falken tires that come standard on the Rubi? (Bouncy? Sh**ty? you tell me) There are a few sets for sale around me and some feedback would be awesome. I've done the crawler bit and am looking to keep this one 'long road trip' worthy with occasional runs to places like the Sedona, AZ trails (which are really beautiful by the way, if you haven't done them yet. I recommend 'Broken Arrow' for some truly inspiring views) or 'The Backway to Crown King' (look it up if you haven't heard of it) of course taking the bypasses.

Mine came with the MT version, and I loved them. The siping didn't last long though. Once the siping was gone. They started getting sketchy in the rain.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Do you have a Jeep friend that would be willing to swap wheels/tires just for an experiment?

 

[tmgarmon]

Do you have a Jeep friend that would be willing to swap wheels/tires just for an experiment?

Would be nice, but no. It won't hurt to upgrade the tires anyway.

 

[Holes]

I chased DW on my old TJ for an entire summer, changed Everything. Bought some new BFG a/t's. No more DW. Your results may vary.

Sounds like a good vote for BFG AT’s.

 

[WetWilly]

Would be nice, but no. It won't hurt to upgrade the tires anyway.

You got me scared to do my leveling now lol. Everything rides and drives fine at the moment... I just ordered a Teraflex 1.5 leveling kit today. Interested to hear how this all works out for you.
I did have a TJ that after doing a mild lift drove it nuts with DW. New set of wheels and tires calmed it down. It is starting to come back to me why I took a break from Jeeps for a while.

 

[tmgarmon]

So......I've conversed with several of my old wheeling buddies at the Arizona Virtual Jeep Club. I sent out a bunch of pictures and we did our online analysis. 99% of the time DW can be attributed to the Track Bar. These guys have the experience to prove it. The stock tires don't help, but neither does the anglular changes that occur when lifting. The track bar and drag link stayed aligned due to using the same manufacturers products, so something else is moving. I'm going to try the Synergy Track Bar and sector Shaft Brace Kit (8869-01) and see if that helps.........It makes sense. I'll update this thread once I have it installed and tested. Look at the pics attached and you tell me if that doesn't look like it would want to move under stress.

Edit.......I shouldn't say 'moving'. It feels like something is flexing, like a spring.....

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