2020 Gladiator - Death Wobble Help

[CQCTT]

I apologize for beating a dead horse BUT, I have a Gladiator with a Jeep Performance 2 inch lift. Wrangler Territory MT 35 inch tires. I have had the front suspension, balance and alignment checked at a local well known 4x4 shop. They are at a loss. Anything below 36 psi ( Bad at 26 psi) will cause the wobble starting at 45 mph and above. If i put the psi to 38 or 40 psi in and drive the same road/Bumps and speed it does not happen. Any help greatly appreciated. I even replaced the tires and wheels same size different brand and the same occurred.

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[D_JT]

Get adjustable lower control arms and increase the caster. You want around 6 degrees.

 

[rharr]

Has anyone check the ball joints, and all the drag, tie and track bar ends for slop? It doesn't take much for a worn out joint to make things go south.

How many miles?

 

[GuzziMoto]

There are wobbles, and there is deathwobble. First thing would be to determine which you have.
Regular wobbles can be tire issues, balance issues, etc. If it is a speed related wobble that starts and ends at certain speeds I would start by having your wheels/tires Road Force Balanced. If it does it with multiple tires/wheels, it seems likely it isn't a tire issue. But you never know.
I would also post your alignment specs. Toe and Caster primarily. Caster is what makes your front end stable, makes it want to go straight.
If it is a random but incredibly severe wobble that once started requires you to slow down to a stop or near stop to get it to go away, I would watch the video's on deathwobble by Planman. There are two.
Real deathwobble is almost always caused by play in the front end.
Play in the trackbar. Or the trackbar bracket.
Play in the ball joints.
Play in the steering draglink and/or Tie rod.
Other factors can trigger it, but the play has to be there for it to occur.
A steering stabilizer is never really a fix for deathwobble, it is only a band-aid that covers up the problem.

A common method of troubleshooting deathwobble is to lay under the front end while someone turns the steering wheel back and forth, looking for play. You don't have to turn the wheel all the way back and forth, just far enough to show where any play may be. If it is actual deathwobble.

 

[CQCTT]

Get adjustable lower control arms and increase the caster. You want around 6 degrees.

I will need to have that checked. Thank you

 

[CQCTT]

There are wobbles, and there is deathwobble. First thing would be to determine which you have.
Regular wobbles can be tire issues, balance issues, etc. If it is a speed related wobble that starts and ends at certain speeds I would start by having your wheels/tires Road Force Balanced. If it does it with multiple tires/wheels, it seems likely it isn't a tire issue. But you never know.
I would also post your alignment specs. Toe and Caster primarily. Caster is what makes your front end stable, makes it want to go straight.
If it is a random but incredibly severe wobble that once started requires you to slow down to a stop or near stop to get it to go away, I would watch the video's on deathwobble by Planman. There are two.
Real deathwobble is almost always caused by play in the front end.
Play in the trackbar. Or the trackbar bracket.
Play in the ball joints.
Play in the steering draglink and/or Tie rod.
Other factors can trigger it, but the play has to be there for it to occur.
A steering stabilizer is never really a fix for deathwobble, it is only a band-aid that covers up the problem.

A common method of troubleshooting deathwobble is to lay under the front end while someone turns the steering wheel back and forth, looking for play. You don't have to turn the wheel all the way back and forth, just far enough to show where any play may be. If it is actual deathwobble.

Yes, on the death Wobble. It is a severe wobble and almost has to come to a complete stop for it to stop. The 4x4 shop said they checked all the components. They also suggested the lower adjustable control arms but, would not 100% say it would solve the wobble.

 

[GuzziMoto]

Adjustable lower front control arms, geometry brackets, they allow you to add caster back after losing caster when you lift. Caster is what makes your front end stable. A lack of caster can lead to a lack of stability.
Aside from a lack of caster, the most common cause of deathwobble is play in the front end. That play can be in the trackbar (most common), in the steering linkage (draglink & tie rod), or in the ball joints. You can look for that play by being under the Jeep while someone turns the steering wheel back and forth around an 1/8 of a turn. You just need enough steering wheel input to show the play.
The bolts/nuts for the various parts need to be fully and properly tight. For example, the torque spec on the trackbar bolts at either end is something like 130 ft/lbs.
If the bolt holes get ovaled out, even the proper torque will not hold the joint tight. If that happens, you can get weld washers welded in to fix the oval hole. Or in some cases, like the trackbar chassis side bracket, you can buy a brace that strengthens the chassis side bracket and fixes any possible issues with the hole getting ovaled out.

There are usually two sides to deathwobble, what allows it to happen (play in the system) and what triggers it. Sometimes it is triggered by something as simple as tire air pressure too low. In that case, raising the tire air pressure can seem to make it go away. In other cases replacing the steering stabilizer can seem to make it go away. But neither of those things address the root cause, what allows the deathwobble to occur in the first place.

 

[SoK66]

Good feedback here so I won’t repeat. Just wanted to add that the stick shocks aren’t all that great and I’ve noticed on mine if the pressures are low the shocks don’t do the best job of rebound control.

I’m getting it occasionally on my Willys that’s just on 285’s (33s) if the pressures are under 35 psi. My setup is essentially a Sport w/1.5” Teraflex spacer, the lower control arms from the Mopar. 2” kit (1/4” longer) and 2” Teraflex front shock extensions to center the shock travel.

Just an observation, the stock tie rod, drag link & track bars are very light weight. Add to that the stupid aluminum knuckles and the cheezy ball joints and there you have it. A bit of rotating mass imbalance caused by a pothole or expansion strip and you have a symphony of odd vibrations resonating through the whole shebang.

 

[wuykats]

Since it is a 2020 you may have the aluminum steering gearbox. Check with the dealer, they were replacing those with a steel box if the customer complained about steering wander. I have see videos where the steering box would move 1/8 of an inch or more when the steering wheel was moved back and forth. Several companies make a steering box brace, Synergy has a high quality one.

 

[Andy29847]

I apologize for beating a dead horse BUT, I have a Gladiator with a Jeep Performance 2 inch lift. Wrangler Territory MT 35 inch tires. I have had the front suspension, balance and alignment checked at a local well known 4x4 shop. They are at a loss. Anything below 36 psi ( Bad at 26 psi) will cause the wobble starting at 45 mph and above. If i put the psi to 38 or 40 psi in and drive the same road/Bumps and speed it does not happen. Any help greatly appreciated. I even replaced the tires and wheels same size different brand and the same occurred.

Are your wheels stock? If not, are the wheels hub centric? If not, it is possible to mount the wheel off-center which can cause wobble. The variation of the problem with wheel pressure suggests a wheel out of round or off-center.

Here is how you should mount your aftermarket rims, after a rotation, new rims or tires, or a good old cleaning

1. Jack car up and secure it with a jackstand (Safety First )
2. Loosen all lug nuts and either put on rim, rotate or whatever the hell you need to do.
3. Thread on all the lug nuts, but DO NOT tighten to where you can not move em.
4. Rotate the tire/rim until one of the 5 lugs is at the 12 o clock position.
5. Tighten lug nut with thumb and forefinger to the point that you can not do it anymore.
6. Rotate the tire clockwise, skipping one lug nut.
7. After skipping the one nut, put the 3rd nut in the 12 o clock position. Tighten this one the same as Step 5
8. Skip one more nut, and repeat Step 5. This last nut will be right next to the first one.
9. Let the truck down to where the tires barely touch the ground. Use a wrench and tighten all bolts with about 25% of your strength. Just enough to grab.
10. I then let the truck down all the way and torqued the bolts to 90.
11. Repeat all steps above for the rest of the truck

 

[SoK66]

This is an important point. If there are off-centered front wheels, that is, they aren't running perfectly centered there's really nothing else to look at until that is remedied.

 

[Gatorac]

My 2020 developed DW about a year ago. Replacing the factory steering stabilizer may have helped some. There wasn't much resistance left in the factory one. But the real game changer was upgraded the front track bar. My truck has a 2" lift as well as the Mopar longer FLCA's. The lift changes the static angle of the track bar. The rubber bushings in the OEM trackbar are soft as hell. When the DW would start, I could feel that the axle was shifting side to side more so than just the steering angle going back and forth.

No more DW after the steering stabilizer and track bar upgrade. After the DW was gone, I upgraded the tie rod and drag too. Just for fun.

Other notable upgrades prior to DW. Bilstein 5100's, Aluminum steering box replaced with the cast iron, Steer Smarts Yeti XD Sector Shaft Brace with Frame Side Track Bar Reinforcement Bracket. Probably some other stuff that I don't remember.

 

[CQCTT]

Thank you all for the outstanding feedback. I now have a weekend project with all the ideas. I will let you know the cure. Thanks again to all!

 

[Andy29847]

My truck has a 2" lift as well as the Mopar longer FLCA's. The lift changes the static angle of the track bar. The rubber bushings in the OEM trackbar are soft as hell. When the DW would start, I could feel that the axle was shifting side to side more so than just the steering angle going back and forth.

I have the Mopar lift on my Wrangler. My OCD would not allow me to run the stock track bar so I upgraded both the front and rear track bars. I didn't want to spend big money for track bars so I put a JKS trackbar on the front and a Lynx track bar on the back. Both bars are longer (as installed) and beefer than the stock models.

Also, I recently replaced the steering stabilizer on my Wrangler (60K miles). I did this after feeling a slight shimmy one morning. I pulled off the old stabilizer and manually moved it in and out. There seemed to be a little play on the change of direction. Like the track bars, I couldn't see a reason to spend big bucks on a steering stabilizer. I ordered a stock stabilizer from MOPAR and it was delivered to my home for ~$60.

My first Jeep was a 2004 Wrangler Rubicon. I fought the death wobble wars with the TJ and it was both costly and educational. Death wobble leaves permanent scars.

 

[CQCTT]

Well, the weekend was spent checking the steering and suspension. Nothing loose or play found. 4x4 was very diligent in trying to find the issue, The only question was the alignment. found a 6 degree caster and toe was 0. We gave it a 1/8 toe-in. Wobble seemed to be less often now with the psi set to 28 after chalk test. Should I toe-in more?

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