2021 gladiator death wobble

[Jeeperjamie]

Yeah, your buddy is a perfect example of why Ford can get fucked. Part constraints are only part of it though, it’s down to the dealer you choose. Like I said, I know people who want base 4 doors who reserved the first few days they opened last July and they’ve never even previewed for a build. I’ve also seen loaded 2 door Badland orders in December already have vins, yet here my wife sits waiting. First they see how many Broncos they can give each dealership, than they look at what they can build. Either way, good luck. The 2.7L likes to blow up in the Bronco, we ordered it too but some of the posts are unnerving.

We will see, either way it's for the wife, she wants it and the more i see them I'd like to own one now, not over the jeep though but they feel cool to drive. I've read a few things about the 2.7, but also some about the 2.3, but that note I've read stories about the 3.6 I'm the Jeeps being bad too so these are forums and that's what they are for, people to complain. If I see 10,000 people saying it, I might get alarmed.

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[Jeeperjamie]

I saw you edited this after I replied. Yeah, that’s why lol and that’s why Ford sucks. They turned their backs on their customers they promised reservation order builds too.

Yeah I'm not saying Ford is a model for business practices but I have always had a great experience with Hilbish in my hometown, have bought numerous vehicles from them over the years and they have been selling ford's for well over 60yrs at that same location. The guy I built mine through had been there 40yrs and I trust what he says.

 

[jetrocker]

How did this thread turn into a Ford/Bronco discussion?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

How did the last Jeep I'll ever own turn into...... hmmm, not sure what that turned into...... I'll circle back to you on that one.

 

[seven30]

Dropped mine off this morning. My theory on DW.
1) Dynamics of live axle expose it to DW feedback oscillation
2) Steering damper absorbs oscillation energy to suppress it
3) Ball joints that are not loose can still allow DW if they internally deflect under force.
4) Once DW starts it overcomes ball

The short video I posted earlier shows the ball joint is internally spring loaded. Put enough force on it and it will deflect. That same ball joint on an IFS will not be particularly noticeable. On a live axle it could allow DW to commence.

 

[Tuggernuts]

Already got everything in writing, had a buddy build one middle of October and he took delivery if his last week. The key to building them is if your looking for the leather, and all the safety features, Badlands etc, those re the ones being held up. We built a base 4 door and adding a few options, final price $45,357 plus tax when we take delivery, they said probably June, I'm good with that. I've saw at least 5 on the lot that were build around August or Sept of last year that over the past 6 weeks have been delivered and they ain't marking them up like some dealerships. My buddy paid what he paid for his, around $47,000.

For reference we did get a hardtop with ours ,Base model 2022, with Sasquatch package, $695 option for this year not sure about last year's model. Like i said we don't have the safety package or leather or a lot of the bells and whistles but got the skid plates, front steel bumper with the brush guard and 4.7 gears. I talked with a few guys up at RTR racing and they suggested how to go about building one, they have been getting them pretty much as quick as 8 weeks turn around up there but we are talking about Vaughn Gittin Jr.

Sounds like a good build. Good luck with the process. Vaughn and Loren were killing it at KOH.

 

[jetrocker]

Dropped mine off this morning. My theory on DW.
1) Dynamics of live axle expose it to DW feedback oscillation
2) Steering damper absorbs oscillation energy to suppress it
3) Ball joints that are not loose can still allow DW if they internally deflect under force.
4) Once DW starts it overcomes ball

The short video I posted earlier shows the ball joint is internally spring loaded. Put enough force on it and it will deflect. That same ball joint on an IFS will not be particularly noticeable. On a live axle it could allow DW to commence.

This sounds innate, as it has been forever on other jeep models. Mine will be going in for second time in the next week. I'm doubting they can "fix" design that's set up to resonate by nature. I just don't understand why it was fine for the first 6000 miles, then started. Nothing wears out in that low mile situation. And nothing was wrong when they did all the checks the first time. Ugh....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Dropped mine off this morning. My theory on DW.
1) Dynamics of live axle expose it to DW feedback oscillation
2) Steering damper absorbs oscillation energy to suppress it
3) Ball joints that are not loose can still allow DW if they internally deflect under force.
4) Once DW starts it overcomes ball

The short video I posted earlier shows the ball joint is internally spring loaded. Put enough force on it and it will deflect. That same ball joint on an IFS will not be particularly noticeable. On a live axle it could allow DW to commence.

The ball joints on IFS are spring loaded. They typically have nylon wear parts - the mating parts inside are nylon. On the upper ball joint on a vehicle with springs on the lower control arm, there's nothing other than that spring and wear parts keeping it from moving around. (I have ball joints on hand for my vehicles because at least for one, you can't buy them any more - last company that reproduced them wanted about $150 each. )
On a vehicle with springs on the upper control arm, the lower is the follower and relies strictly on the wear parts and that spring.
The ball joint on the control arm that has the spring on it has the weight of the vehicle on it at all times other than when bouncing or jouncing on a rough road and then any looseness can show up.
In either case, loaded ball joint or follower, if you get a bad shock or tire out of balance, if that joint is loose it moves around - if the force can overcome the spring, it's going to move around.
The biggest difference with IFS is not the ball joints at all because you still have a loaded and unloaded ball joint on solid axles - the difference is how the steering pivots in the same arc or plane as the suspension travels. You do not have that with solid front axles once the height of the vehicle is changed.
Look at where the inner tie rod pivots in the drag link on IFS - then look back a couple of inches to where the lower control arm is attached to the frame or cross member - almost a straight line back. That means there's not a lot of likelihood of bumpsteer unless you change scrub radius.

(Eagles have a steering dampener and are IFS)


As far as "nothing was wrong when they did the first check" - so they got out a torque wrench and the chart of torque settings and went over every joint, every part of the front suspension and every part of the steering, missing nothing. They checked torque on both ends of the track bar, both ball joints (meaning they pulled the cotter pins and put new ones back in) and they checked the bushings for damage or wear, they checked torque on drag link and tie rod ends and upper and lower control arms, both ends.

I'll bet right now few if any dealers actually spend even half an hour checking the torque on every nut and bolt of every part of the steering and suspension. I mean torque - not just "yeah it's tight". Torque - clamping force. You can have a "tight" bolt that still lets stuff move but won't move when YOU try to move it.
If they aren't checking torque, they aren't checking it.

 

[seven30]

Consider virtually every Semi-truck on the road has a live axle with much heavier wheel/tires. When is the last time you noticed one with with a shimmy much less DW? I have never have. I did see another JT with serious shimmy or DW. Its bad when you notice it from the opposite side of a divided hwy!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Consider virtually every Semi-truck on the road has a live axle with much heavier wheel/tires. When is the last time you noticed one with with a shimmy much less DW? I have never have. I did see another JT with serious shimmy or DW. Its bad when you notice it from the opposite side of a divided hwy!

Those are straight axles - not live. They aren't front wheel drive. So the front axle is a dead axle.

They are a single I beam setup normally with leaf springs. They have king pins on each end. There is one tie rod that goes from left to right with the pitman connected to the left steering knuckle with a drag link directly to the left knuckle. Very very different situation. The front axle doesn't articulate the same at all. You can't compare them.
As the axle moves up and down- as little as they do - the pitman on the steering gear is straight down from the gear in most cases so that the end of the pitman is almost a direct line back to the steering knuckle.
There's not much "swinging in an arc" to a semi suspension as there is any live solid axle vehicle. Very different steering, very different angles, almost nothing swings in much of an arc, the pitman is almost straight across from the knuckle so the drag link is almost parallel to the ground.
Everyone is forgetting the arcs things move in on a pickup like the large Ford or many Jeeps without IFS. Semis have much straighter steering and suspension movement.
Not that it can't happen - but if you've worked on them (I have worked on the steering parts) or maybe even seen the inspections they must go through..... it's no wonder you haven't seen one do that. (plus the fact it's very very different in geometry!)

 

[Greg Biggs]

Was driving my 2021 gladiator down the highway today doing the speed limit of 70 mph and got death wobble 3 times after hitting bumps on the highway, scared the crap out of my girlfriend. I already tightened the track bar and ball joints from a previous issue with noise while stopping. Going to take it to the dealer tomorrow and fight with them again, probably get the "could not duplicate" crap. Is there a better steering damper you guys use to correct this issue?

Please tell me what mods if any including larger tires you have done. Ive still got the stock 33's that came on it. Im hoping by staying stock I won't need to be concerned about death wobble.

 

[Tuggernuts]

Consider virtually every Semi-truck on the road has a live axle with much heavier wheel/tires. When is the last time you noticed one with with a shimmy much less DW? I have never have. I did see another JT with serious shimmy or DW. Its bad when you notice it from the opposite side of a divided hwy!

I’ve had death wobble in my Kenworth. It happens.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’ve had death wobble in my Kenworth. It happens.

Yeah, it can - but with the geometry of the most common types, it's not as likely. Any straight axle vehicle could possibly experience it, a lot depending on certain factors.
Some of the steering systems on the big rigs are incredibly complex, perhaps to help negate that issue. All I've dealt with had a single tie rod from knuckle to knuckle, pitman hanging straight down and a drag link - not very long - from pitman to knuckle's steering arm. Pretty simple, everything mostly in a straight line, very little movement in an arc.

I've seen guys experience it with their grain trucks in years gone by (not quite a semi tractor, but still pretty large). In those cases it was age - wear, older tires, and so on. Neither of my trucks had that issue but then I never took them over about 55 either. I lived fairly close to the elevators do didn't have to do a lot of highway driving with them - and for that I was thankful.....

 

[Tuggernuts]

Yeah, it can - but with the geometry of the most common types, it's not as likely. Any straight axle vehicle could possibly experience it, a lot depending on certain factors.
Some of the steering systems on the big rigs are incredibly complex, perhaps to help negate that issue. All I've dealt with had a single tie rod from knuckle to knuckle, pitman hanging straight down and a drag link - not very long - from pitman to knuckle's steering arm. Pretty simple, everything mostly in a straight line, very little movement in an arc.

I've seen guys experience it with their grain trucks in years gone by (not quite a semi tractor, but still pretty large). In those cases it was age - wear, older tires, and so on. Neither of my trucks had that issue but then I never took them over about 55 either. I lived fairly close to the elevators do didn't have to do a lot of highway driving with them - and for that I was thankful.....

Mine was an extremely worn tie rod end. Believe me, it was terrifying.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Mine was an extremely worn tie rod end. Believe me, it was terrifying.

I can absolutely believe it.
The problem with wear items like that is once they have a little bit of wear, minimal, the pounding they take causes faster wear. It's like a slide hammer working inside that joint. It can happen pretty quickly.

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