2022 gladiator death wobble

[Lunentucker]

Correct, this is the first winter for the truck. I’ve read a lot of places and supposedly steer smarts has even proved it takes 6.5 caster to fix it in the gladiator. So when they install the sector shaft brace I’m gonna have them set it at 6.5 to see if it goes away. I had so many say change the tires, but they’re still almost brand new.

Cooper is good usually.
Yours after either D or E load range. I could see E being pretty stiff and bouncy in cold temps.

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[Lunentucker]

Sorry I misunderstood your original comment. It does make sense, but is it the fix with it being great until now ?

Not until you try more caster with the control arms you have.
They would improve the overall ride quality in the seat of your pants and up your spine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They have them set dead 0

Not good.

The Clayton kit came with all 8 adjustable control arms so there was no need for correction brackets on the caster.

Geometry means setting things more parallel to the road, not to adjust caster necessarily.

When you lift you make those control arms sit at quite an angle - and the axle can more easily push back on them.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

Not good.


Geometry means setting things more parallel to the road, not to adjust caster necessarily.

When you lift you make those control arms sit at quite an angle - and the axle can more easily push back on them.

Yes I misunderstood what he originally said. I understand what he’s saying now. But I’m curious to how many have had to use them because there has been so many lifted. I’ve not heard or seen of anyone needing them with the adjustable control arms yet. And I’m extremely upset it happening with it still being new. Just want to figure it out, it has been amazing on ride and drivability until now.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

Cooper is good usually.
Yours after either D or E load range. I could see E being pretty stiff and bouncy in cold temps.

Mine are “ D “ load range

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

Not until you try more caster with the control arms you have.
They would improve the overall ride quality in the seat of your pants and up your spine.

Yep I can see that, I agree with what he was saying. Thank you for all the replies, it helps ease my mind that I’m not crazy lol ?. But then again...I am a Buckeye ?

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

Cooper is good usually.
Yours after either D or E load range. I could see E being pretty stiff and bouncy in cold temps.

That being said...going back to the cold making metal shrink and fluids stiffer. It also makes rubber and sidewalls stiffer. I never had a problem until the first cold night in October. That weekend I had to go guide for a disabled Veterans archery deer hunt. And it got down to 30 that night and I fought it all the way there but once the temperature came up it went away. I wonder if the cold stiffens up the sidewalks enough that I need to lower my tire pressure to accommodate it ? Like Dr death wobble was saying with the geo brackets. The angle won’t let the spring do it’s job but could the stiffer sidewall due to the cold be doing the same thing ? I usually run 31-32 psi because that’s where my powder test showed the best wear pattern.

 

[Lunentucker]

That being said...going back to the cold making metal shrink and fluids stiffer. It also makes rubber and sidewalls stiffer. I never had a problem until the first cold night in October. That weekend I had to go guide for a disabled Veterans archery deer hunt. And it got down to 30 that night and I fought it all the way there but once the temperature came up it went away. I wonder if the cold stiffens up the sidewalks enough that I need to lower my tire pressure to accommodate it ? Like Dr death wobble was saying with the geo brackets. The angle won’t let the spring do it’s job but could the stiffer sidewall due to the cold be doing the same thing ? I usually run 31-32 psi because that’s where my powder test showed the best wear pattern.

I'd try dropping that to about 27 cold.
Another zero cost try.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’ve not heard or seen of anyone needing them with the adjustable control arms yet.

they don't know they need them.
Adjustable control arms can only do so much - they only help with static caster - caster with it at rest. They can't make it more stable. And with wild angles on the arms, as one side of the axle goes way up and the other way down, one end of the axle wants to rotate but it can't because it's solid across so there's a struggle between the left and right end. One set of arms swings down, swinging back in the arc wanting to pull that side of the axle back and rotate it. The other side tries to hold it.

That video nails the explanation. They people running their control arms at such angles may get caster back under control, but now they have really wild swings in the amount of caster with every bump or uneven spot, it also wants to turn the axle, rotate it with every bump. The axle should move up and down with little rotation. Parallel control arms help with that because of the arc they swing in.
IMO, you need both. You want those arms to not be hanging down swinging forward and backward with each bump, but you want to dial in the caster with control arm adjustments. Brackets can do both, but can't be fine tuned.
That's my opinions on it, anyway.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Have you tried rotating the tires? Just to rule out it’s not a tire or wheel issue.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

they don't know they need them.
Adjustable control arms can only do so much - they only help with static caster - caster with it at rest. They can't make it more stable. And with wild angles on the arms, as one side of the axle goes way up and the other way down, one end of the axle wants to rotate but it can't because it's solid across so there's a struggle between the left and right end. One set of arms swings down, swinging back in the arc wanting to pull that side of the axle back and rotate it. The other side tries to hold it.

That video nails the explanation. They people running their control arms at such angles may get caster back under control, but now they have really wild swings in the amount of caster with every bump or uneven spot, it also wants to turn the axle, rotate it with every bump. The axle should move up and down with little rotation. Parallel control arms help with that because of the arc they swing in.
IMO, you need both. You want those arms to not be hanging down swinging forward and backward with each bump, but you want to dial in the caster with control arm adjustments. Brackets can do both, but can't be fine tuned.
That's my opinions on it, anyway.

I see your point very well and appreciate it. I do have in my opinion a really good lift with good adjustable control arms. Maybe I will try the brackets if caster doesn’t fix it. And do exactly what you just said. It would probably ride better but the ride is actually great. It just puzzles me that I know so many with the same lift but not having the problems I’m having.

 

[ColoradoGlad]

My wife's Jeep also didn't have an issue with Wobble until it got VERY cold. The problem was fixed by changing the ball joints. She had quite a few miles on them, and the cold caused the metal to contract enough to cause the looseness resulting in the wobble.

Something I would suggest you do is eliminate any issue related to the tires and wheels.
If you still have your stock wheel and tire setup, that would be an easy swap to see if the problem goes away.
If not, swap out with a buddy's tire and wheels for a test.
Preferably smaller tires and less offset wheels.

My old JK had death wobble seemly forever. 3 1/2 lift with 35's with negative offset wheels.
Before I sold it, I put the stock Rubicon wheels and tires back on.
It drove like new and absolutely no wobble under all conditions.
I didn't remove the lift, or anything related to the suspension.

Good luck!

 

[XJADDICTION]

He is still all factory, no assist on steering. The Clayton kit came with all 8 adjustable control arms so there was no need for correction brackets on the caster.

this is an incorrect, statement., dropping the frame side of the CAs will fix the problem. You can’t adjust the angle of the control arms with adjustable control arms.
Two things you can do
1- long arm kit
2- drop CA front brackets

Honestly it’s a crap shoot when you lift over 2.5”es. Some Jeeps will get DW some won’t. I can think of several reasons why but not going to get into it here.
I have the same lift as you with 37 bfg at kos, on factory wrangler rubicon rims with 2” spacers, tereflex falcon 3 adjustable shocks and falcon adj stabilizer. I have zero Issues with my set up. Never a hint of DW.
Check to be sure your shop didn’t remove the winged factory tract bar at the axle. Shops do that shit all of the time and the trac bar will always get loose without that nut with welded on anti-spin wing. Replace with factory nut if they took it off.

next either do LAs or drop brackets. With 37’s even on ledges off road you won’t hit the DBs because the tire diameter covers them up.

my set up has the HD steering and ball joints as well.

before this Clayton lift I had RE 3.0” lift and as it got to 40,000 miles of use (heavy towing and bed loads”my JT started getting the telltale pre-symptoms of DW.
After my outwest summer trip I replaced the entire lift with a complete overland tereflex lift. I absolutely love it and no more rear end sag, no DW!

if a lift is done right, you could literally take the streering stabilizer off and should not have DW. It’s never the stabilizer.
9 of ten times it’s loose trac bar

To fix it for good with no more worries… and i understand your fear of driving it currently as real DW is a clean your drawers out experience… get drop brackets or geometry corrrection brackets, sane thing, to lower the front 4 upper and lower CAs. Even with a loose trac bar after drop brackets installed, it won’t DW.
The first time I had DW was in 1997 on a 6” lifted Cherokee XJ. RE finally came out with DBs and problem solved… never DW again even with my eventual 7.5”es of flexy lift on that beast XJ.

PS if you get DW you can slow to 50 mph and pull it into 4 Hi and gas it. DW will stop. Then back to 2wheel drive.

 

[Burghardphotography]

I’m not really sure if geometry correction brackets is the solution here. It may be a solution, but that’s really just going to help mask whatever the issue actually is.

Our builds are somewhat similar. I have the 3.5 Overland+ diesel lift from Clayton, and run Yokohama G003 37’s on a -25 offset wheel. Sdi E-clik shocks. My steering is the Currie system Clayton offers on their website, with the addition of a Metalcloak track-bar reinforcement bracket. The Currie has a little play in it as you describe on your ends, both Currie and Clayton assured me it was normal. Steering stabilizer is the teraflex falcon adjustable. Besides a very very slight pull to the left I’ve never been able to figure out, my steering is like butter. (The pull to the left got better after I moved the wheels around the truck.)

No death wobble or any weird stuff from the steering, it’s rock solid. Clayton is known to be a rock solid option, and is a full kit, so there’s something loose or broke for sure, not result of a poor setup. What I’m getting at is the Clayton lift is designed well, it does not need the addition of geometry correction brackets.

Here’s a photo my most recent alignment that got everything dialed in very well, hope it helps some.

My bet is either alignment, the track bar, or something weird with the wheels. Maybe the difference between my wheels at -25 and yours at that little bit more offset is the straw that broke the camels back. I’d say find a Jeep buddy and swap wheels, see if the problem replicates. Simple enough thing to try just to rule it out.

Let me know if I can answer any questions about my setup, I’m happy to help ya ??

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

this is an incorrect, statement., dropping the frame side of the CAs will fix the problem. You can’t adjust the angle of the control arms with adjustable control arms.
Two things you can do
1- long arm kit
2- drop CA front brackets

Honestly it’s a crap shoot when you lift over 2.5”es. Some Jeeps will get DW some won’t. I can think of several reasons why but not going to get into it here.
I have the same lift as you with 37 bfg at kos, on factory wrangler rubicon rims with 2” spacers, tereflex falcon 3 adjustable shocks and falcon adj stabilizer. I have zero Issues with my set up. Never a hint of DW.
Check to be sure your shop didn’t remove the winged factory tract bar at the axle. Shops do that shit all of the time and the trac bar will always get loose without that nut with welded on anti-spin wing. Replace with factory nut if they took it off.

next either do LAs or drop brackets. With 37’s even on ledges off road you won’t hit the DBs because the tire diameter covers them up.

my set up has the HD steering and ball joints as well.

before this Clayton lift I had RE 3.0” lift and as it got to 40,000 miles of use (heavy towing and bed loads”my JT started getting the telltale pre-symptoms of DW.
After my outwest summer trip I replaced the entire lift with a complete overland tereflex lift. I absolutely love it and no more rear end sag, no DW!

if a lift is done right, you could literally take the streering stabilizer off and should not have DW. It’s never the stabilizer.
9 of ten times it’s loose trac bar

To fix it for good with no more worries… and i understand your fear of driving it currently as real DW is a clean your drawers out experience… get drop brackets or geometry corrrection brackets, sane thing, to lower the front 4 upper and lower CAs. Even with a loose trac bar after drop brackets installed, it won’t DW.
The first time I had DW was in 1997 on a 6” lifted Cherokee XJ. RE finally came out with DBs and problem solved… never DW again even with my eventual 7.5”es of flexy lift on that beast XJ.

PS if you get DW you can slow to 50 mph and pull it into 4 Hi and gas it. DW will stop. Then back to 2wheel drive.

Thanks for the comment and info, I was just under the impression like probably a lot of people that the adjustable control arms will correct everything needed. But now I see and understand it will correct caster but will not do anything for the geometry. I get that totally and can understand from the dr death wobble video how it’s taking away from the coil springs and not allowing them to do their job of soaking up the bumps. Instead it’s throwing the energy into the frame and floor board feel. It’s just frustrating knowing how well it’s drove for8-10k miles and all of a sudden it’s went bad all of a sudden. I had not a hint of it until it got cold and it seems it goes away on warm days. Like I said before it’s amazed me how well it’s handled and performed until now and it’s mind boggling to say the least. Thanks again ??

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