2024 Gladiator 4xe Supposedly

[Oilburner]

If that hybrid was made by Toyota, whose been building them for 25 years and left most problems behind 20 years ago, this would be a NO Brainer.

big power
HUGE torque
great fuel economy
very reasonable cost with Government subsidies.

Then show us the hybrid Tacoma.
We’ll wait…

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[bleda2002]

Then show me the hybrid Tacoma.
We’ll wait…

The 2024 Tacoma debuting in about a week is expected to be a 4 cylinder hybrid as it's top spec.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The 2024 Tacoma debuting in about a week is expected to be a 4 cylinder hybrid as it's top spec.

Yeah, lots of news out there about it in the various "auto blogs". It's an attractive bundle.

 

[dcmdon]

Then show us the hybrid Tacoma.
We’ll wait…

I know nothing about the Tacoma. That has nothing to do with anything.

My point was that Toyota knows how to build reliable hybrids. FCA does not.

 

[dcmdon]

The 2024 Tacoma debuting in about a week is expected to be a 4 cylinder hybrid as it's top spec.

One question is how heavy or light of a hybrid its going to be. The Tundra is a pretty light hybrid, with a small battery and motor, no ability to run on electric only and only about a 4 mpg bump over the straight V6.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

One question is how heavy or light of a hybrid its going to be. The Tundra is a pretty light hybrid, with a small battery and motor, no ability to run on electric only and only about a 4 mpg bump over the straight V6.

That's because it's a hybrid not a PHEV (as far as I know about the Toyota line).
The 4xe isn't a hybrid in the strict sense. it's a PHEV.
Toyota has been building hybrids, not PHEVs.
Very different technologies involved. The 4xe is not what Toyota builds or has built for years.
The Tundra has a small battery because that's all it is - a hybrid.
There are times you can go roughly 30 miles on battery alone with a 4xe because it's a plug-in vehicle. It can run in e-save (using the gas engine and saving the battery for in-town or other use), hybrid mode (basically the default) or electric only (until the battery reaches <1% according to the gauge, which isn't REALLY 1%, but that's how they do it so people don't get confused.
I had to laugh, ya think Toyota is so far advanced and yet their electric technology is lagging others and to the point they bought and disassembled a Tesla and were "amazed" by it.
So you think Toyota has it set? They aren't building the same thing Jeep is. Jeep's systems are more complex for a reason.
Frankly, I think the 4xe is a work of art. And if they can get past the payload, towing and storage factors, I'd look at a JT 4xe, but it's not going to be easy - not like Quadratec makes it look. Can't compare what one company does to what an automaker must do for the masses, to pass federal highway safety laws and standards and to satisfy the EPA.
It's going to be tricky for FCA.
I really see no more issues with the 4xe out there than what happens with pure ICE vehicles, and I'd bet at least 30% of the gripes, bitching, complaining, is the owners' own fault for not understanding how a 4xe works, or must work.
For example - one guy was griping as he lives 2.5 miles from his work - and uses his 4xe as a commuter vehicle. Yikes! I'd never put a 3.6 through that let alone a 4xe. The fool should have bought a pure EV, or an e-bike. Dummy gripes because it's in FORM. Well, DUH. I'd never buy a gas powered vehicle from someone like that. That's engine abuse.
I could relay other similar stories from people who just don't get it, or think they are going to out-think the system, they of course know more than FCA does, so try to push buttons and get around things. Naw, let it do what it's designed to do.

I will say this - the 4xe Wrangler sucks for a long trip vehicle. MPG is horrible with any wind at all. But then Jeep people are used to 15-17 mpg on the highway so I guess I'm spoiled by the mpg of my JT and what we used to get with our GCs. Don't expect a JLU 4xe to be a good long-trip vehicle and get you stellar mpg. Ain't gonna happen. But it's pretty much ideal for my wife and us most of the time. We'll use my JT for long trips from now on. It will be much cheaper to drive.

All EV makers and hybrid makers are having growing pains - look at Ford's troubles with the F150, GM's had their issues, Tesla had years of troubles, all of them have had growing pains. Jeep is definitely no worse than any other in that respect. The gripers are going to gripe because they don't get it in most cases. And ya think spare parts for any of the others are easy to get?
Techs are already griping and moaning about the Fords being a total nightmare. No one wants to work on 'em.

 

[dcmdon]

That's because it's a hybrid not a PHEV (as far as I know about the Toyota line).
The 4xe isn't a hybrid in the strict sense. it's a PHEV.
Toyota has been building hybrids, not PHEVs.
Very different technologies involved. The 4xe is not what Toyota builds or has built for years.
The Tundra has a small battery because that's all it is - a hybrid.
There are times you can go roughly 30 miles on battery alone with a 4xe because it's a plug-in vehicle. It can run in e-save (using the gas engine and saving the battery for in-town or other use), hybrid mode (basically the default) or electric only (until the battery reaches <1% according to the gauge, which isn't REALLY 1%, but that's how they do it so people don't get confused.
I had to laugh, ya think Toyota is so far advanced and yet their electric technology is lagging others and to the point they bought and disassembled a Tesla and were "amazed" by it.
So you think Toyota has it set? They aren't building the same thing Jeep is. Jeep's systems are more complex for a reason.
Frankly, I think the 4xe is a work of art. And if they can get past the payload, towing and storage factors, I'd look at a JT 4xe, but it's not going to be easy - not like Quadratec makes it look. Can't compare what one company does to what an automaker must do for the masses, to pass federal highway safety laws and standards and to satisfy the EPA.
It's going to be tricky for FCA.
I really see no more issues with the 4xe out there than what happens with pure ICE vehicles, and I'd bet at least 30% of the gripes, bitching, complaining, is the owners' own fault for not understanding how a 4xe works, or must work.
For example - one guy was griping as he lives 2.5 miles from his work - and uses his 4xe as a commuter vehicle. Yikes! I'd never put a 3.6 through that let alone a 4xe. The fool should have bought a pure EV, or an e-bike. Dummy gripes because it's in FORM. Well, DUH. I'd never buy a gas powered vehicle from someone like that. That's engine abuse.
I could relay other similar stories from people who just don't get it, or think they are going to out-think the system, they of course know more than FCA does, so try to push buttons and get around things. Naw, let it do what it's designed to do.

I will say this - the 4xe Wrangler sucks for a long trip vehicle. MPG is horrible with any wind at all. But then Jeep people are used to 15-17 mpg on the highway so I guess I'm spoiled by the mpg of my JT and what we used to get with our GCs. Don't expect a JLU 4xe to be a good long-trip vehicle and get you stellar mpg. Ain't gonna happen. But it's pretty much ideal for my wife and us most of the time. We'll use my JT for long trips from now on. It will be much cheaper to drive.

All EV makers and hybrid makers are having growing pains - look at Ford's troubles with the F150, GM's had their issues, Tesla had years of troubles, all of them have had growing pains. Jeep is definitely no worse than any other in that respect. The gripers are going to gripe because they don't get it in most cases. And ya think spare parts for any of the others are easy to get?
Techs are already griping and moaning about the Fords being a total nightmare. No one wants to work on 'em.

Toyota has been building PHEVs since 2012. So it's not a new thing for them.

Also, you describe PHEVs as being fundamentally different from a regular hybrid. They aren't. It's just a matter of degree, but the exact same tech. A larger battery and motor are the only hardware differences really. All the tech involved in coordinating between the engine and motors, regenerative braking, charging, and driving are identical. Except that rather than the electric motor having 20 hp, it has 80 hp.

Interestingly, GM has a huge amount of PHEV experience with its Volt, which launched aro0und 2010. The 2nd gen Volt in particular has been a reliable vehicle. It's got about 40 miles of electric range.

I have mentioned on this board before that a friend has told me that at the GM dealer he works at, its not unusual for them to service Volts with 100k miles on them and only 5000 miles on the engine.

You said that they all have growing pains with hybrids. I agree. FCA isn't any worse than GM or Toyota were when they first started. The difference is that NOW. If you buy a hybrid Toyota, you are buying from a company that has been doing hybrids for 26 years and PHEVs for 11 years and is in its roughly 5th generation of design.

GM had some trouble with the first gen Volt. But that was back in 2010. The 2nd gen Volt (discontinued in 2019) was much better. It was faster, more fuel efficient, with longer electric range and it was more reliable.

I'm of the opinion that PHEVs, given the current state of the art in technology are the best solution for most powertrain needs. Fast, fuel efficient, and devoid of the problems associated with BEVs.

Like my friend at the GM dealer indicated. You achieve 95% electrification with a battery that is 1/8th the size of a BEV battery.

 

[Geoarch]

If that hybrid was made by Toyota, whose been building them for 25 years and left most problems behind 20 years ago, this would be a NO Brainer.

big power
HUGE torque
great fuel economy
very reasonable cost with Government subsidies.

Unfortunately, even a quick perusal of the 4xE threads at JLWrangler shows a total shit show.

Some are great.
But if there are problems, the owners face.
1) extreme waits for basic parts
2) dealers who don't provide loaners during extended down time
3) techs who haven't been adequately trained
4) factory service reps who also havn't been adequately trained.

Its clearly a v1.0 effort with lots of flaws. But its good to see them attempt it.

If I kept my cars for less than 3 years or leased them, it would be an easy decision.
But i keep my vehicles for 10+ years and who knows how well supported it will be at that point in time. I may also take the gladiator out of normal daily driver rotation in 3 or 4 years and use it for weekends and work around the house. Used that way, I may have it until I die.

I agree. We have a Rav4 Prime PHEV and get 50 miles on all electric after an 11 hour charge and with 6.30 kW rooftop solar we're not paying for driving around town. Plus on the Toyota you can select "charge mode" and the 2.5L ICE charges the batteries on the go, then when you hit a town you move over to EV. Toyota definitely has it figured out. I would assume that most of that technology would be available to Jeep, but apparently they don't use it on the 4XEs, or Toyota's patents prevent that.

 

[bleda2002]

I agree. We have a Rav4 Prime PHEV and get 50 miles on all electric after an 11 hour charge and with 6.30 kW rooftop solar we're not paying for driving around town. Plus on the Toyota you can select "charge mode" and the 2.5L ICE charges the batteries on the go, then when you hit a town you move over to EV. Toyota definitely has it figured out. I would assume that most of that technology would be available to Jeep, but apparently they don't use it on the 4XEs, or Toyota's patents prevent that.

Jeep has charge mode, it's buried a small bit, but it's e-save then go to center screen hybrid app and select charge, it will then use the engine to charge the battery.

 

[Geoarch]

Jeep has charge mode, it's buried a small bit, but it's e-save then go to center screen hybrid app and select charge, it will then use the engine to charge the battery.

Thanks. If they ever make a Gladiator PHEV, I'll use that.

 

[Fastwake]

Apples to oranges. You are talking a lot of weight difference. The JT is much heavier than your JL
Depending on the configurations, can be as much as 800 pounds or more difference.
A JT Rubicon is a heavy beast. Gear ratio doesn't matter much with an automatic. The torque converter sees to that, and the auto simply won't hit the higher gears if it needs torque.
I can't see how you can compare two very different vehicles.
If you were comparing a 2.0 JL to a 3.6 JL, it would be more believable.
Throw 1,000 pounds in the back of that JL and then tow with it.

As far as 5,000 RPM - I guess you've never driven an LS-equipped Chevy, or certain Ford trucks? RPM is the name of the game and has been for many years. Funny how people are so against getting efficient power from RPM. Are you afraid it's going to blow up or something?

Again, compare LIKE FOR LIKE, not a light-weight JL to a heavy JT.

3.6 for me ANYDAY

 

[ShadowsPapa]

3.6 for me ANYDAY

Why? It's getting long in tooth, there's better combinations out there now.
The 2.0 alone isn't great at all (and the charts that people show to prove the HP and torque is higher on the 2.0 - that's if you run high octane in it, otherwise it's not that big a deal)
The 4xe when everything is as it should be will trounce your 3.6 and leave it in the dust.
My wife drove her 4xe to town yesterday. 18 miles total. I plugged it in and it took 1 hour and 56 minutes to full charge. The total cost for her trip fuel-wise? $1.03
Yup, the energy to get her to town and back basically cost a buck three.
Try that with your 3.6 in anything other than a Grand Cherokee. The same trip in her GC would have taken somewhere between $2.80-$3.00 for gas.
She did it on a dollar's worth of electricity. And no short-driving an ICE to cause issues later as engines HATE short drives like that. Electric doesn't care.
My beef right now is the stinkin dinky fuel tank and the limit of ~20 miles on electric. They are not suitable at all for long drives. You can get better mpg with the 3.6 on a long trip. But the transmission will keep switching gears to get the torque there in hills and mountains. Not so for the 4xe. It picks a gear and stays there.

 

[AmosMoses]

FCA can't source reliable ESS batteries, let alone main batteries that last more than 3 years and I even if they did, I still wouldn't be interested in a hybrid jeep anything.

 

[bleda2002]

FCA can't source reliable ESS batteries, let alone main batteries that last more than 3 years and I even if they did, I still wouldn't be interested in a hybrid jeep anything.

That's like saying the price of tea in China is cheap why does my spit look like butter?
Just because they're both liquids doesn't mean they're even remotely related lol.

Lead acid batteries from cheapest supplier is not anywhere near the same as prismatic cells sourced only from Samsung.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That's like saying the price of tea in China is cheap why does my spit look like butter?
Just because they're both liquids doesn't mean they're even remotely related lol.

Lead acid batteries from cheapest supplier is not anywhere near the same as prismatic cells sourced only from Samsung.

Are these Samsung?
I know Tesla has some deal with LG if I remember correctly.
So far, and granted the 4xe hasn't been out terribly long in the grand scheme of things, but I've yet to see a 4xe with high voltage battery issues - only the 12v batteries. And of those who had issues with that, they seem to be replacing them on their own with better batteries and moving forward, with no further issues.

I still say that part of the issue with the batteries - not all because they are indeed cheap batteries, is that so many Jeeps aren't driven like the family sedan or the commuter vehicle that runs for at least an hour every day.
Even the 4xe sits with a drain on that 12v battery unless you open and close the door a couple times or so, or push the big round button. When sitting doing nothing and left alone, it's exactly like a 3.6 Gladiator in that there's nothing going into it, but something coming out.
I really think part of it is how Jeeps are used - or not used. Fewer issues with Grand Cherokees from my observation with an exception being my wife's 2018 which (drum roll, please) SAT A LOT UNUSED then mostly went on short drives. BAD for batteries that always have a parasitic drain on them.
Put a decent 12v battery in a 4xe and if you use it much at all, it should last as the DC-DC charging should do a good job.

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