Higher_Ground

Well-Known Member
First Name
J. T.
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
359
Reaction score
262
Location
South Carolina
Vehicle(s)
2020 Gator Sport S
Gosh, I figured there'd be more excitement about getting 15 miles of range on EV mode at $0.13/mile after you've been plugged into a wall all night long and then falling back on a tiny 4-banger turbo at $0.14/mile after that. Especially when you get to pay $8k more money up front and then you get an opportunity for a five-figure battery replacement when powertrain warranty is gone. Are you guys asleep? You need to call Jeep and demand this now!

Inconvenience and expense doesn't have to be the wave of the future. We can get it now if our voices are loud enough!
(Checks occupation)

Sounds about as accurate as my 10 day forecast. Is this calculation before or after your favorite politicians "force" the price of gasoline through the roof? Or if they decide to start digging up rocks to burn again? The price of both fluctuate enough to make your "13 cents vs 14 cents" argument especially specious.
Advertisement

 

WXman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
3,944
Location
Bluegrass region of Kentucky
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Gladiator Overland EcoDiesel
Occupation
Meteorology and Transportation
(Checks occupation)

Sounds about as accurate as my 10 day forecast. Is this calculation before or after your favorite politicians "force" the price of gasoline through the roof? Or if they decide to start digging up rocks to burn again? The price of both fluctuate enough to make your "13 cents vs 14 cents" argument especially specious.
The science and computer programming involved in trying to predict the condition of the atmosphere at 200 hours in the future is so complex it would twist your brain into a pretzel if I tried to explain it, so I'll spare you.

Let's just say that modeling the atmosphere and understanding that spending money on electricity has the same effect on your checking account that spending money on gasoline does are things that require totally different IQ scores. A 7th grade home economics student could see that a Jeep Gladiator 4xe is going to cost more money to own and operate than a "standard" Jeep Gladiator. That same 7th grader, however, probably wouldn't be able to decipher global atmosphere teleconnections with a super computer and project specific variables like temperature through the column, water vapor, wind velocity, etc. at a specific hour of the day a week and a half from now.

Nice try though. It's not like meteorologists haven't gotten used to jokes from people who wouldn't pass a semester of met. school.

For the record, I'm using numbers from the recent costs of fuel and energy as reported by our federal government. Obviously until January 2021 these numbers would have been even more heavily favored toward the gasoline Jeep since we were all paying significantly less for a tank of the liquid gold.
 

Higher_Ground

Well-Known Member
First Name
J. T.
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
359
Reaction score
262
Location
South Carolina
Vehicle(s)
2020 Gator Sport S
Nice try though. It's not like meteorologists haven't gotten used to jokes from people who wouldn't pass a semester of met. school.

For the record, I'm using numbers from the recent costs of fuel and energy as reported by our federal government. Obviously until January 2021 these numbers would have been even more heavily favored toward the gasoline Jeep since we were all paying significantly less for a tank of the liquid gold.

I'm yanking your chain but I'm beginning to think you deserve it.

You're complaining about the intricate complexities of predicting future events (only a few days in advance) but then boiling down equally complex variables into a simple average (at least with regard to the regional nature of fuel and electricity prices, abilities of individuals in locations to directly offset those costs, etc).

What good would a weather prediction be for any given location if all I did was quote you the average conditions across the entire United States for the past year?
 

spectre6000

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
547
Reaction score
559
Location
Mountains above Denver
Vehicle(s)
pending
That assumes cost is the only motivation. It's not. That's why we're on a Gladiator forum and not a... Ford Ranger base model (I'm guessing) forum.
 

ygrignon

Well-Known Member
First Name
Yanik
Joined
Jul 14, 2021
Messages
131
Reaction score
90
Location
Georgetown, TX
Vehicle(s)
JT Sport S Max Tow, Maserati Ghibli, Audi Q5
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Software Engineer
The science and computer programming involved in trying to predict the condition of the atmosphere at 200 hours in the future is so complex it would twist your brain into a pretzel if I tried to explain it, so I'll spare you.

Let's just say that modeling the atmosphere and understanding that spending money on electricity has the same effect on your checking account that spending money on gasoline does are things that require totally different IQ scores. A 7th grade home economics student could see that a Jeep Gladiator 4xe is going to cost more money to own and operate than a "standard" Jeep Gladiator. That same 7th grader, however, probably wouldn't be able to decipher global atmosphere teleconnections with a super computer and project specific variables like temperature through the column, water vapor, wind velocity, etc. at a specific hour of the day a week and a half from now.

Nice try though. It's not like meteorologists haven't gotten used to jokes from people who wouldn't pass a semester of met. school.

For the record, I'm using numbers from the recent costs of fuel and energy as reported by our federal government. Obviously until January 2021 these numbers would have been even more heavily favored toward the gasoline Jeep since we were all paying significantly less for a tank of the liquid gold.
Hybrids the way they are done today make no sense. Having dual power trains just makes everything more complicated and increases cost. TFL analysis of a Rivian employee’s trek from Michigan to California towing a mustang proves that full electric doesn’t work for real truck tasks. I think we need to move to range extender EVs for these use cases.
 

bleda2002

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2021
Messages
733
Reaction score
910
Location
34655
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTR Firecracker Red
Gosh, I figured there'd be more excitement about getting 15 miles of range on EV mode at $0.13/mile after you've been plugged into a wall all night long and then falling back on a tiny 4-banger turbo at $0.14/mile after that. Especially when you get to pay $8k more money up front and then you get an opportunity for a five-figure battery replacement when powertrain warranty is gone. Are you guys asleep? You need to call Jeep and demand this now!

Inconvenience and expense doesn't have to be the wave of the future. We can get it now if our voices are loud enough!

So full of not truth.

1) Try 7 cents or less a mile even on 35s.

2) Instead of all night long try 2 hours.

3) The 4 banger is more powerful than the 3.6, it is a bit thirsty though if you are in the boost as all other turbos are but you also always have electrification as the batteries never fully deplete unless you use electric mode only for some reason (and even then it has reserves and will recharge). More likely we will get a 3.6 4xe though since the electrification takes place at the transmission and a small accessory motor in the bay, the engine it's hooked up to is not a big hurdle in this configuration.

4) Might cost more upfront but you get the federal tax credit that's increasing so you break even, when this is gone you may have a leg to stand on but on wranglers the 4xe is more cost effective apples to apples even if you didn't save money on gas.

5) Yes batteries are expensive but even a Tesla that is 5 times more dense isn't a 5 figure repair, the 4xe is a 17 kwh one so pretty unlikely that in 10 years when the hybrid power train warranty expires you'll have a 5 figure repair.
 

WXman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
3,944
Location
Bluegrass region of Kentucky
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Gladiator Overland EcoDiesel
Occupation
Meteorology and Transportation
So full of not truth.

1) Try 7 cents or less a mile even on 35s.

2) Instead of all night long try 2 hours.

3) The 4 banger is more powerful than the 3.6, it is a bit thirsty though if you are in the boost as all other turbos are but you also always have electrification as the batteries never fully deplete unless you use electric mode only for some reason (and even then it has reserves and will recharge). More likely we will get a 3.6 4xe though since the electrification takes place at the transmission and a small accessory motor in the bay, the engine it's hooked up to is not a big hurdle in this configuration.

4) Might cost more upfront but you get the federal tax credit that's increasing so you break even, when this is gone you may have a leg to stand on but on wranglers the 4xe is more cost effective apples to apples even if you didn't save money on gas.

5) Yes batteries are expensive but even a Tesla that is 5 times more dense isn't a 5 figure repair, the 4xe is a 17 kwh one so pretty unlikely that in 10 years when the hybrid power train warranty expires you'll have a 5 figure repair.
1) Impossible. Even in stock form the JLU 4xe gets 15 miles of EV range on a bad day, low 20s on a good day. Let's call it 17 average. The battery pack is a 17 kW battery. That's 1 mile per kW. How much is a kW of electricity? Well it ranges from $0.10 to $0.20 depending on state. The national average is $0.13. So on average, it'll cost $0.13 per mile to drive on pure EV mode, in STOCK form. On 35s that goes way up.

2) Only if you pay an electrician $$$$ to install a proper 240 volt outlet at your house.

3) Negative, the V6 has more horsepower. It's also got a lot better track record.

4) There are a lot of stipulations on the tax credit, especially for people who lease. I wouldn't go into it expecting that to offset costs.

5) A technician told me that they did a Chrysler minivan battery for a lady this past summer. $21,000. Her insurance had to pick up the tab, and they decided to total the van. Over a battery! Good luck....
 

bleda2002

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2021
Messages
733
Reaction score
910
Location
34655
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTR Firecracker Red
1) Impossible. Even in stock form the JLU 4xe gets 15 miles of EV range on a bad day, low 20s on a good day. Let's call it 17 average. The battery pack is a 17 kW battery. That's 1 mile per kW. How much is a kW of electricity? Well it ranges from $0.10 to $0.20 depending on state. The national average is $0.13. So on average, it'll cost $0.13 per mile to drive on pure EV mode, in STOCK form. On 35s that goes way up.

2) Only if you pay an electrician $$$$ to install a proper 240 volt outlet at your house.

3) Negative, the V6 has more horsepower. It's also got a lot better track record.

4) There are a lot of stipulations on the tax credit, especially for people who lease. I wouldn't go into it expecting that to offset costs.

5) A technician told me that they did a Chrysler minivan battery for a lady this past summer. $21,000. Her insurance had to pick up the tab, and they decided to total the van. Over a battery! Good luck....
Again, I actually have one so I'm basing this on actual results not heresay.

1) On Kenda klever 35x12.5r20 we consistently get over 20 miles a full charge. The battery is 17kw but it doesn't discharge itself fully, using the juice that's coming out of the plug to charge it reserves about 2kwh it seems. We pay about .10 so 20 for 15kwh is .07 a mile even at the average rate of .13 it's .09 a mile, at 3.30 a gallon a gas engine is .16 cents a mile at 20mpg so we save .11 a mile driven.

2) 2 240vs cost me 230 bucks total, and now I can plug in a welder. If you have a laundry room nearby you can use that plug too.

3) 295lbft way down low, at worst they are about even, personally I'll take torque in a jeep over hp so I don't have to rev it out. All moot though since you actually have 375 HP and 410lbft in all but the most extreme situations since again, the battery never actually empties

4) the tax credit has 2 stipulations, less than 200k sold and you paid 7500 in taxes. Meet those 2 get the money, not hard to figure out. On a lease the leasing company gets the credit, right now they are just applying it straight to amount owed so in essence it's a 7500 down payment toward your actual lease.

5) sure 21k for just a 17kw battery, literally not possible unless they charged 15k+ in labor. More likely it was a massive failure of the entire power train. Also since it was insurance and not the 10 year power train warranty it probably was through damage so again it wasn't just a “bad battery"
 

Glad_he_ate

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
250
Reaction score
267
Location
Mexico ny.
Vehicle(s)
2021 gladiator Willie's ecodiesel
Occupation
Union electrician
We have a diesel glad and a 4xe wrangler. I like the 4xe, corse transition to ice?? Not ours. I would think the towing will be in the 6k range. And by then they will have a tow mode. I worked with a guy over the summer who had the ford power boost. And he loved it. The gladiator and the wrangler will have to stay rugged and capable off road OR they will have to have two versions like the bronco’s. I just wish it came with the stage 2 charger. The lv 1 takes like 14hrs to charge. The lv2 is 2.5 hrs. Our power bill went up about 20 bucks a month. Our gas bill for her commute went down about 90 bucks a month. She swapped in a cher. Limited v6
She has put on about 5500 miles and the battery generally lasts about 28 miles if you use the max regen.
 
Last edited:

ilovebikes99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
209
Reaction score
178
Location
MI/FL
Vehicle(s)
'21 Gladiator Willys Blackout
Occupation
Motorcyclist
Tesla batteries are $20K to replace so that minivan battery is not surprise to me. The environmental impact of lithium mining is also something to consider. Entire communities and areas destroyed and sucked dry. With more vehicles hooking up to the grid, there will be a meltdown and a huge increase in cost to the consumer. They will add the "infrastructure fee" or whatever utility companies are for profit. So it's basically just consuming more for a mute benefit "oh I drive without gas or for free". Tesla has been ranked one of the shittiest companies for reliability. Electrification long term, with all things considered, doesn't look like progress or a lower cost option to the consumer. Looks like the cost of transport will only go up.
It basically doesn't solve any problems, like for example fuel injection did.
 

Glad_he_ate

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
250
Reaction score
267
Location
Mexico ny.
Vehicle(s)
2021 gladiator Willie's ecodiesel
Occupation
Union electrician
I also don’t see this as a problem solver, as an electrician I’m too aware of the strain on the grid as a whole. Lithium refinement is carbon heavy. Digging takes heavy machinery running mostly on diesel. Even the mining equipment that is electric runs on fossil fuel for the most part. If we can produce more power with nuclear then we can make a stronger argument for Ev’s. Burning coal to make electricity to drive a car is inefficient and far from carbon neutral
 

ilovebikes99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
209
Reaction score
178
Location
MI/FL
Vehicle(s)
'21 Gladiator Willys Blackout
Occupation
Motorcyclist
I also don’t see this as a problem solver, as an electrician I’m too aware of the strain on the grid as a whole. Lithium refinement is carbon heavy. Digging takes heavy machinery running mostly on diesel. Even the mining equipment that is electric runs on fossil fuel for the most part. If we can produce more power with nuclear then we can make a stronger argument for Ev’s. Burning coal to make electricity to drive a car is inefficient and far from carbon neutral
Agree with all points. Makes us feel better driving electric, but is it really? Just the diesel equipment tanks more gas a day than an entire subdivision.
The real hybrids are Priuses et al that get 40+mpg. My 05 Civic gets 41mpg, I really can't see anything beating the economy of that car, in the overall package. Low maintenance cost, low fuel consumption, narrow low diameter tires. That's where we should head to. Not these huge heavy vehicles
 

bleda2002

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2021
Messages
733
Reaction score
910
Location
34655
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTR Firecracker Red
I also don’t see this as a problem solver, as an electrician I’m too aware of the strain on the grid as a whole. Lithium refinement is carbon heavy. Digging takes heavy machinery running mostly on diesel. Even the mining equipment that is electric runs on fossil fuel for the most part. If we can produce more power with nuclear then we can make a stronger argument for Ev’s. Burning coal to make electricity to drive a car is inefficient and far from carbon neutral
Agree, this feels like a shell game until power plants are moved to be more neutral. The production of all these EVs and the fueling produces its own pollution. Less than gas vehicles overall but not by as much as the media likes to promote. For example the current us grid is only 36-38% efficient (nuclear is up to 68% efficient) so an efficient ev using 100kw to travel 300 miles actually used ~270 kwh of energy because of energy lost at the power plant. That 41mpg car used 250 of gas. Granted you will save on the diesel used to get the gas to the station, the boat ride to get the gas to the port, the energy used to refine the gas, and the extraction cost. That's balanced against fueling the power plant where if it's something renewable could be big overall footprint savings but on coal/gas, not so much.


Personally though I bought a 4xe because of it's performance. It's he 2nd most powerful Wrangler and the yearly cost of ownership is the lowest. It was also the cheapest way to get in to a highly optioned Sahara for the wife as the tax credit and standard equipment of the 4xe made it cheaper than building a comparable gas Sahara by a few k. I have no intention of keeping it beyond 5 years so an out of warranty repair doesn't factor in to my costs in the least.
 

Glad_he_ate

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
250
Reaction score
267
Location
Mexico ny.
Vehicle(s)
2021 gladiator Willie's ecodiesel
Occupation
Union electrician
We leased hers. turn it in before it’s out of warranty lol
 

Glad_he_ate

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
250
Reaction score
267
Location
Mexico ny.
Vehicle(s)
2021 gladiator Willie's ecodiesel
Occupation
Union electrician
Also worth noting we did zero research on it. It was the only wrangler available within 300 miles at the time and they wanted her Cherokee. They bought her lease out and with the tax brake and 0 down her payment went up like 80 bucks for a far cooler rig.
 
Advertisement

 
Advertisement
Top