4XE hybrid for the Gladiator ? ? ?

[Fcmalie]

You're forgetting about the $7,500 tax credit (which is given in a weird way and may not be the full amount) as well as the fact that even though it starts $10k higher, it has several things included in it the ICE vehciles in those trims don't, like leather seating (which I don't want in my Jeep), 8.4" screen w/nav, and the upgraded audio. I think there are more things included but those are the big ones for me, so that's several thousand that gets knocked off immediately.

Leather seats: $1,700 - $1,750 (do these stack, like seat + leather color? If so combine those)
8.4 nav + audio: $2k

So for now we'll say the PHEV portion is a $6k option... and if you do it right the tax thing can get you ahead :D

Can't forget it includes the LED light package as well.

Sponsored

 

[Sazabi19]

Can't forget it includes the LED light package as well.

Thanks, that's an extra $1,365, so a little under $5k for the PHEV option.

 

[Sank]

There seems to be common misconception about how the hybrid jeep will work. Well, now that they're being delivered, I found a guy that is demonstrating how it actually works, e-save mode, hybrid mode, charging, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCEPv_nC55HEQbJmDFWSxA/videos

Hope this helps clear up some confusion. I'm hopeful Jeep announces ordering for PHEV JT in September. I've never bought a car new in my life. But there is no used market for something like this, so I may need to make the leap.

 

[dcmdon]

Also, don't forget many states also offer tax credits.

My state (MA) will give you $1500 for a PHEV. So the total in stupid Government largesse is $9000.

Just because I don't think giving tax credits to EVs is smart doesn't mean I'm above taking advantage of it.

 

[XJADDICTION]

That's not how any of this works.

The JL and JT are apples and oranges. You rightly noticed that on JL, they had enough wiggle room that they were able to drastically increase GVWR to keep the payload and towing the same or better. That worked OK for Wrangler, which has a MISERABLE payload and towing rating to begin with.

However, on JT they're already at max GVWR. I've seen some JT models, particularly diesels, stamped with 6,350 lb. GVWR numbers. In order to accommodate the 4xe equipment, they'd have to tack on another 700 lbs. which would then put the GVWR at 7,000+ lbs. At that point, you're literally talking Ram full size truck numbers. Would Jeep stamp the same total capacity on their midsize that Ram uses for their fullsize? I seriously doubt it. There is, after all, a limit to what the midsize chassis and dimensions can handle.

So the fact is, there is almost zero chance that the 4xe Gladiator will be able to retain payload and towing numbers that are equal to the currrent ICE Gladiator numbers. I will be shocked if they do that.

What you're probably going to see is the lowest payload and towing numbers of any Gladiator trim in the entire lineup. And when you combine that with a <20 mile electric range and a $10k higher starting price, it just makes absolutely no sense. There will be even less financial reason to buy a 4xe Gladiator than there is to buy the EcoDiesel.

So explain this then. This is with today’s lithium ion battery technology. When Sodium Glass Battery technology becomes available (3 major companies are heavily invested in this tech already and Toyota is one of them) charges will be less than 5 minutes to full capacity and up to 1000 mile single charge range.

Below are the Rivian Specs. The Rivian is set to start deliveries in June of 2021. So this is lithium ion tech and 4 motors at the wheels all electric.

“With a 180 kWh battery the Rivian R1T can have up to 750 hp and 829 lb-ft of torque.”

“When properly equipped, the 2021 Rivian R1T can tow up to 11,000 pounds, while the maximum payload is 1,760 pounds.”

0-60 in 3 seconds, the Rivian pickup weighs under 6000lbs.

A Ford engineer admitted this week that electric cars will take over the automotive industry.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A Ford engineer admitted this week that electric cars will take over the automotive industry.

Hmmm, no, not for a few years, or even decades. Musk and Toyoda (the head of Toyota) have both said the world cannot sustain electric vehicles, the infrastructure isn't even close, especially where there will either be greater demand, or government push.
And it doesn't matter how "fast" you can charge, it still requires energy. To fast charge requires more amperage up front. It's like a tank, you can fill it fast with a huge hose, or slow with a smaller hose and less flow. IF you want a fast charge, you have to have the charging capacity. Look at the charging system on a JT - 12 volts times 220 amps just as an example, 2600 watts (it would be more as you actually run closer to 14 volts charging, etc.)
The equivalent of that on 110 power is 24 amps. How many circuits in your garage could handle that sort of draw? I know, that's grossly over-simplified and not apples to apples, but to charge a battery that can produce that sort of HP - and HP is also a measurement of electrical energy - in minutes or even an hour is going to take some serious infrastructure. Imagine 100,000 people getting home from work and all plugging in their cars....................

Anyway, both Musk and Toyoda have a lot to say about electric vehicles - and both companies are leaders in the production of electric vehicles and both say - eh, not so fast.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

Anyway, both Musk and Toyoda have a lot to say about electric vehicles - and both companies are leaders in the production of electric vehicles and both say - eh, not so fast.

 

[XJADDICTION]

N

Hmmm, not so fast.

With all due respect I completely disagree with you. You are thinking in terms of old school technology.

If the general public could understand how many corporations (commercial and industrial) for example Amazon, are investing in alternative energy it would blow your minds. corporations (industrial and commercial) globally are currently building infrastructure to provide enough alternative power to operate their factories, hotels, offices and distribution facilities purely on alternative energy. In my line of work I have seen renewable energy projects on a a massive scale. Not only is the entire globe turning to alternative energy (away from fossil fuel) new tech is reducing their electrical demand from the electrical grid.

This is on a global scale. Just One MAJOR indicator in the construction sector that I’ve seen change in the last 5+ years are companies refitted with LED light sources. We all know that LED lights decrease energy demand in our own homes. imagine just one major factories power demand decrease with the use of LED lighting the size of Tesla’s USA 4.5+ million square ft.

Over your heads in every city rooftops are being covered with PV Cells.

Solar, Wind (I don’t like wind so much because it seems inefficient to me and is ugly), geo thermal, nuclear power, bidirectional charging, new tech batteries like sodium glass that reduce waste and have a lower thermo dynamic quality and a decrease in demand on the electrical grid. This is more than enough to power electric vehicles.

The proof in the numbers are on the web for you to see. This is already a long thread for me to add those.


FORD EUROPE GOES ALL-IN ON EVS ON ROAD TO SUSTAINABLE PROFITABILITY; COLOGNE SITE BEGINS $1 BILLION TRANSFORMATION
17-Feb-2021 | COLOGNE, Germany

Ford says it will transition to EV-production gradually over the next decade. By 2024, the company's entire commercial vehicle lineup will be “zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid.” By mid-2026, Ford says “100 percent” of its passenger vehicle lineup will be the same.Feb 17, 2021

• Ford says by mid-2026, 100% of its passenger vehicle range in Europe will be zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid; moving to all-electric by 2030

TESLA

“Marco Gaxiola, an electrical engineer who participated in a Model 3 teardown for a Tesla competitor, reverse engineered the electric car’s charger and found it to be ready for bidirectional charging.”

This means Tesla, Elon Musk, Has already built bidirectional technology in the Tesla Model 3 currently on the road.

“He, Marco Gaxiola, told Electrek:

What I learned on reverse engineering the Model 3 charger, was that the design is fully bidirectional. This means power can be converted from AC to DC the same way as the previous example, but also power can flow in reverse direction, coming from the battery and ending up on the AC side. This is known as DC to AC inverter, and when this technology is present in a vehicle, it is known as V2G (Vehicle to Grid).

“However, the real value of bidirectional capacity lies in grid services.”

“With the owners’ permission, Tesla could offer electric utilities the ability to access power from the vehicles on the network in other to offset electricity demand during peak hours.”

“Several automakers, like Honda and Nissan, have been openly exploring the technology, (bidirectional charging)”

Nuclear Energy’s biggest concern is radioactive waste. Here is the latest info on that.

From Forbes

“Nuclear power provides clean energy to power the grid by using fission, which splits atoms of molecules apart. From a small amount of fuel, nuclear power produces a large amount of energy for electricity and its onsite fuel source lasts up to 18 months.”

“By reprocessing nuclear waste, a plant can recover up to 95% otherwise wasted uranium and plutonium. Reprocessing also reduces the long-term radioactivity and the volume of waste up to 90%. France, which reprocesses only 28% of its nuclear fuel waste, has the cleanest air and cheapest electricity in Europe.”

“Nuclear power currently provides about 20 percent of US electricity — and 50 percent of its carbon-free electricity.May 11, 2018”

Barron’s Stock leading indicators for EV charging says:

Is There Enough Electricity for EVs? Yes. Here’s Who Will Charge Them.

“The EV-charging business should be a growth business for years. Beam and Blink are small-capitalization stocks. Their stocks are up about 300% and 400% year to date respectively. Investors clearly expect big things in the future.”

I could go on, but this should suffice. The grid can’t handle all cars being EV today, but in as little as 5-10 years it will.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

N



With all due respect I completely disagree with you. You are thinking in terms of old school technology.

If the general public could understand how many corporations (commercial and industrial) for example Amazon, are investing in alternative energy it would blow your minds. corporations (industrial and commercial) globally are currently building infrastructure to provide enough alternative power to operate their factories, hotels, offices and distribution facilities purely on alternative energy. In my line of work I have seen renewable energy projects on a a massive scale. Not only is the entire globe turning to alternative energy (away from fossil fuel) new tech is reducing their electrical demand from the electrical grid.

This is on a global scale. Just One MAJOR indicator in the construction sector that I’ve seen change in the last 5+ years are companies refitted with LED light sources. We all know that LED lights decrease energy demand in our own homes. imagine just one major factories power demand decrease with the use of LED lighting the size of Tesla’s USA 4.5+ million square ft.

Over your heads in every city rooftops are being covered with PV Cells.

Solar, Wind (I don’t like wind so much because it seems inefficient to me and is ugly), geo thermal, nuclear power, bidirectional charging, new tech batteries like sodium glass that reduce waste and have a lower thermo dynamic quality and a decrease in demand on the electrical grid. This is more than enough to power electric vehicles.

The proof in the numbers are on the web for you to see. This is already a long thread for me to add those.


FORD EUROPE GOES ALL-IN ON EVS ON ROAD TO SUSTAINABLE PROFITABILITY; COLOGNE SITE BEGINS $1 BILLION TRANSFORMATION
17-Feb-2021 | COLOGNE, Germany

Ford says it will transition to EV-production gradually over the next decade. By 2024, the company's entire commercial vehicle lineup will be “zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid.” By mid-2026, Ford says “100 percent” of its passenger vehicle lineup will be the same.Feb 17, 2021

• Ford says by mid-2026, 100% of its passenger vehicle range in Europe will be zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid; moving to all-electric by 2030

TESLA

“Marco Gaxiola, an electrical engineer who participated in a Model 3 teardown for a Tesla competitor, reverse engineered the electric car’s charger and found it to be ready for bidirectional charging.”

This means Tesla, Elon Musk, Has already built bidirectional technology in the Tesla Model 3 currently on the road.

“He, Marco Gaxiola, told Electrek:

What I learned on reverse engineering the Model 3 charger, was that the design is fully bidirectional. This means power can be converted from AC to DC the same way as the previous example, but also power can flow in reverse direction, coming from the battery and ending up on the AC side. This is known as DC to AC inverter, and when this technology is present in a vehicle, it is known as V2G (Vehicle to Grid).

“However, the real value of bidirectional capacity lies in grid services.”

“With the owners’ permission, Tesla could offer electric utilities the ability to access power from the vehicles on the network in other to offset electricity demand during peak hours.”

“Several automakers, like Honda and Nissan, have been openly exploring the technology, (bidirectional charging)”

Nuclear Energy’s biggest concern is radioactive waste. Here is the latest info on that.

From Forbes

“Nuclear power provides clean energy to power the grid by using fission, which splits atoms of molecules apart. From a small amount of fuel, nuclear power produces a large amount of energy for electricity and its onsite fuel source lasts up to 18 months.”

“By reprocessing nuclear waste, a plant can recover up to 95% otherwise wasted uranium and plutonium. Reprocessing also reduces the long-term radioactivity and the volume of waste up to 90%. France, which reprocesses only 28% of its nuclear fuel waste, has the cleanest air and cheapest electricity in Europe.”

“Nuclear power currently provides about 20 percent of US electricity — and 50 percent of its carbon-free electricity.May 11, 2018”

Barron’s Stock leading indicators for EV charging says:

Is There Enough Electricity for EVs? Yes. Here’s Who Will Charge Them.

“The EV-charging business should be a growth business for years. Beam and Blink are small-capitalization stocks. Their stocks are up about 300% and 400% year to date respectively. Investors clearly expect big things in the future.”

I could go on, but this should suffice. The grid can’t handle all cars being EV today, but in as little as 5-10 years it will.

That's not disagreeing with me - it's disagreeing with the head of Tesla and the head of Toyota. I know in Korea it will happen, it almost has to. They have such dense, heavy traffic even with the fantastic public transportation, and they are relying VERY heavily on wind energy there. It's huge.

I toured some of their facilities..........

 

[Mr._Bill]

There's one thing that none of this changes, the sun doesn't shine at night when most people will need to be charging their cars. Electric cars have been around for well over a century. The technology has caught up, making them viable, but they are still destructive to the environment. We're just shifting the damage from one area to another, while trying to claim one is solving a problem created by the other. I also drive an electric car that I have owned for six years. Their adoption will continue to increase, but the gasoline engine isn't going away for a long time. The big automakers are going to use electric cars as another tool to raise overall fleet MPG so they can continue to sell the gasoline cars they make their money from.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

There's one thing that none of this changes, the sun doesn't shine at night when most people will need to be charging their cars. Electric cars have been around for well over a century. The technology has caught up, making them viable, but they are still destructive to the environment. We're just shifting the damage from one area to another, while trying to claim one is solving a problem created by the other. I also drive an electric car that I have owned for six years. Their adoption will continue to increase, but the gasoline engine isn't going away for a long time. The big automakers are going to use electric cars as another tool to raise overall fleet MPG so they can continue to sell the gasoline cars they make their money from.

100%. Gold star.

All electric cars really do, for most drivers, is shift the pollution from their typically well to do neighborhoods and place it into poorer or developing areas. The battery mining, the electricity generation. For every goodie two shoes that's on 100% solar with battery backup on premise that's driving around at 100% renewable there's 100 maybe 1,000 EV drivers who have merely exported their pollution to others. And those others are typically a lot worse off socioeconomically than them.

And I'm a super liberal guy living in a super liberal area... and it just doesn't add up. It's mostly a bunch of smuggies looking to pat themselves on the back for doing good and being able to show their friends how much they care. Smoke and mirrors is all it is.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There's one thing that none of this changes, the sun doesn't shine at night when most people will need to be charging their cars. Electric cars have been around for well over a century. The technology has caught up, making them viable, but they are still destructive to the environment. We're just shifting the damage from one area to another, while trying to claim one is solving a problem created by the other. I also drive an electric car that I have owned for six years. Their adoption will continue to increase, but the gasoline engine isn't going away for a long time. The big automakers are going to use electric cars as another tool to raise overall fleet MPG so they can continue to sell the gasoline cars they make their money from.

Almost all talk is about Europe. The USA has rolling blackouts in some places and around here, we even have a program allowing MidAmerican energy to cut AC compressors at peak times - and they pay you to do it. It takes power to charge, power parts of CA and other places in this country won't be able to handle for years. They can't handle what they have now.
Imagine what it would take to get those places to the point where they can support normal life without the blackouts, then add the load of charging vehicles. It doesn't matter the technology, it still takes power to charge batteries.
My point is that - if we can't handle the loads we have now, we have to fix that first, before you add more load and that won't happen in this decade. Ask the poor folks in a certain western state. It's not about a forbidden subject here, it's about population density vs. capacity to support those needs - then adding to those needs.
Every article I find contradicts Musk and Toyoda by pointing to Europe. We're talking about parts of the USA.

 

[XJADDICTION]

That's not disagreeing with me - it's disagreeing with the head of Tesla and the head of Toyota. I know in Korea it will happen, it almost has to. They have such dense, heavy traffic even with the fantastic public transportation, and they are relying VERY heavily on wind energy there. It's huge.

I toured some of their facilities..........

So you think Elon Musk is unaware that his Model 3 Tesla’s currently on the road, have bidirectional charging already built in?

No he’s hedging, just like he did with Bit Coin.

That alone doesn’t matter anyway, I’ve given plenty of examples outside of Tesla to prove the grid will be able to support EVs. Not TODAY, and of course we don’t have all EVs on the road TODAY. Yes in 5-10 years it will be a done deal.

1- corporate conservation of energy
2- corporate investment in alternative energy and currently adding that tech to their buildings... TODAY. I have seen that with my own eyes. Heck, look up Amazon and alternative energy.
3- Remember that battery charging is all about the heat, thermal dynamics (higher heat = more wasted energy) New Battery tech is going to reduce thermal heat. Look up John Goodenough... no really, that’s his name.
4- residential market is s l o w l y getting the BIG picture. Geo thermal (energy conservation) modular home design ( less waste and more energy efficient than a stick build, I’m talking Turkel designed homes for example, not mobile homes) and PV Cells. No need to have batteries to hold excess power, the extra power produced by a home will go into the grid.
5- Nuclear Power, they have figured how to reuse most radioactive waste.

“Here are three quantum glass battery stocks (other than Tesla) that could surge as quantum glass batteries become a reality and propel the electric vehicle market forward:

Investors Place

3 Quantum Glass Battery Stocks That Could Surge
By Joel Baglole
11/2020




Panasonic (OTCMKTS:PCRFY)

• Albemarle (NYSE:ALB)
• Samsung (OTCMKTS:SSNLF)”

“Tesla isn’t the only company Panasonic is working with on batteries for electric vehicles. The company has also partnered with Toyota to manufacture electric vehicle batteries.”

Hmmm TOYOTA? TESLA???!

“The goal is to raise the battery capacity 50 times higher than what is currently available in Toyota gas/electric hybrid vehicles. Mazda, Subaru and Honda also have agreements in place to use Panasonic batteries in their upcoming electric vehicles.”


Oh wait, MAZDA, SUBARU, HONDA, FORD... all invested in EV and production currently exists. AND, I should add, all of these manufacturers are looking into bidirectional charging.

The sad thing? With this tech we’ve already seen self driven cars. As tech is perfected, insurance companies won’t want you to drive a car without paying a high premium. Now that will really suck.


PS WELCOME BACK SHADOWS PAPA

 

[Oilburner]

No such thing as a free lunch. Nobody wants to discuss what it will cost the average person. Take note of your cost per Kwh today and see how much it goes up, whether you purchase an EV or not-

 

[texanjeeper]

Sounds ridiculous to me. Adding all of that expensive hybrid equipment that will sooner or later break, or wear out, to gain 50 miles? Sounds like a solution to to a problem that never existed. Better save that $7,500 tax credit check for when you hit year 4 and the batteries have to be replaced.

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