20k Service Requirements

[Delhux]

Follow the manuals recommended service intervals while under warranty. You may not like it, but it’s the requirement for a valid warranty. At least in Canada it is. You Americans have that funky clause which I can’t remember the name of, where if a mod and such does not directly relate to a repair it may require, that a warranty repair can not be denied. I like that. Somebody help me with that act or whatever it was, it will drive me nuts trying to remember it.?

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

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[dcmdon]

I just looked at the maintenance schedule from the Mopar website.
https://www.mopar.com/jeep/en-us/my-vehicle/owners-manual.html?openGarage=true

This is the sum total of the work to be done to the Jeep.

Its nothing. 30 minutes max.

Though I might change the differential gear oil.

Adjusting the parking brake is only necessary if its worn. And if you have an Auto Trans there isn't much chance of that.

If you are not handy, buy a cabin air filter on Amazon and bring the list below to a local independent shop and ask them to do all this. It should be less than $100 with an oil change.

• Inspect the CV/Universal joints.
• Inspect front suspension, rear suspension, tie rod ends, and replace if necessary.
• Inspect the front and rear axle fluid.
• Inspect the brake linings, replace as necessary.
• Adjust parking brake on vehicles equipped with four wheel disc brakes.
• Replace cabin air filter.

 

[Trickster]

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Ty. I didn’t sleep all night trying to remember that.?

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Stop “trusting” that something is good enough till the book or engineers say something should be changed. Take charge of your investment. When it comes to your oils, get it analyzed. Lab results don’t lie. If you actually had a problem in your…well, let’s pick on the transmission because that is the least of anyones concern and engineers don’t want you to touch it, EVER, and let’s say the problem starts real early in its life like at the assembly plant…dirty conditions get in, contamination (i.e. silicons (dirt, dust, actual gasket silicons) and maybe let’s throw in some glycol and high sodium in the mix, at the assembly factory.

Which scenario trumps the other? Your trusting all is well and engineers know best OR a lab result that shows hard conclusive data to a problem from the factory is cycling around inside? Early detected problems only have one thing in common and they only have one job to do, …they make things worse as you drive. It doesn’t care how you drive. You could be taking it easy and driving to church or you’ve got that big fricken trailer hitched on for a couple thousand miles, several times.

I do the analysis work on mine. In fact, did it on my last vehicle too. I started my first analysis on my gladiator at 1000k kms. Changed ALL the oils (except tranny) and had it analyzed. Report showed I have an internal engine coolant leak. Now at 25k kms and 5 engine oil analysis later, lab results show leak is getting steadily worse. Chrysler is aware and now they have to answer how much measurable coolant consumption in the engine is acceptable before Chrysler fixes it? I am currently consuming 14 ounces of coolant in an oil change period.

Now onto the item I first picked on, the bullet proof transmission, ..the thing nobody wants you to touch.

You know of anyone that’s analyzed that oil to see the hard data? I did at 24k kms. I bought the truck in February and in APRIL, ordered my tranny pan, gasket and fasteners. I finally picked it up yesterday. The truck goes in the transmission shop today for 8:30am for a hot flush of 20L to get all the high metals, glycol and sodium out and replacing with full synthetic, ZF compliant, 8HP50 and 850RE tranny spec’d oil.
Here’s the lab result.
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/attachments/transmission-lab-results-pdf.190790/

I’m guessing with near 100% certainty, we all would see this report on our own tranny’s at 24k kms. If you disagree without an actual lab result, your just guessing.

 

[dcmdon]

Stop “trusting” that something is good enough till the book or engineers say something should be changed. Take charge of your investment. When it comes to your oils, get it analyzed. Lab results don’t lie. If you actually had a problem in your…well, let’s pick on the transmission because that is the least of anyones concern and engineers don’t want you to touch it, EVER, and let’s say the problem starts real early in its life like at the assembly plant…dirty conditions get in, contamination (i.e. silicons (dirt, dust, actual gasket silicons) and maybe let’s throw in some glycol and high sodium in the mix, at the assembly factory.

Which scenario trumps the other? Your trusting all is well and engineers know best OR a lab result that shows hard conclusive data to a problem from the factory is cycling around inside? Early detected problems only have one thing in common and they only have one job to do, …they make things worse as you drive. It doesn’t care how you drive. You could be taking it easy and driving to church or you’ve got that big fricken trailer hitched on for a couple thousand miles, several times.

I do the analysis work on mine. In fact, did it on my last vehicle too. I started my first analysis on my gladiator at 1000k kms. Changed ALL the oils (except tranny) and had it analyzed. Report showed I have an internal engine coolant leak. Now at 25k kms and 5 engine oil analysis later, lab results show leak is getting steadily worse. Chrysler is aware and now they have to answer how much measurable coolant consumption in the engine is acceptable before Chrysler fixes it? I am currently consuming 14 ounces of coolant in an oil change period.

Now onto the item I first picked on, the bullet proof transmission, ..the thing nobody wants you to touch.

You know of anyone that’s analyzed that oil to see the hard data? I did at 24k kms. I bought the truck in February and in APRIL, ordered my tranny pan, gasket and fasteners. I finally picked it up yesterday. The truck goes in the transmission shop today for 8:30am for a hot flush of 20L to get all the high metals, glycol and sodium out and replacing with full synthetic, ZF compliant, 8HP50 and 850RE tranny spec’d oil.
Here’s the lab result.
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/attachments/transmission-lab-results-pdf.190790/

I’m guessing with near 100% certainty, we all would see this report on our own tranny’s at 24k kms. If you disagree without an actual lab result, your just guessing.

THANK YOU.

You are excessive. But in this case excessive is correct.
I used to send my airplane's oil out after every change because . . . you can't pull over to the side of the road if the engine craps out.

I also used to cut open the oil filter and inspect what was in it.

I generally keep my cars 130,000 miles ish. This is something I will do when I get my Gladiator.

Thanks again.

Re coolant leak. What is the suspicion? Head gasket?

Re the reports statement on the need to change your oil, how many miles did you have on that fill at that time?

Also, what are your thoughts on Micro-Tech vs Blackstone?

 

[Maximus Gladius]

THANK YOU.

You are excessive. But in this case excessive is correct.
I used to send my airplane's oil out after every change because . . . you can't pull over to the side of the road if the engine craps out.

I also used to cut open the oil filter and inspect what was in it.

I generally keep my cars 130,000 miles ish. This is something I will do when I get my Gladiator.

Thanks again.

Re coolant leak. What is the suspicion? Head gasket?

Re the reports statement on the need to change your oil, how many miles did you have on that fill at that time?

Also, what are your thoughts on Micro-Tech vs Blackstone?

Concerning the leak suspicion, I had received my 3rd analysis exactly when I experienced my first PO302 misfire. Lab was working on the 3rd sample when the truck went in for the first fix attempt being the #2 injector.
I then got the truck back the next day and my lab result also came in. I then immediately experienced the second misfire and the truck went back in. I showed the service advisor and shop Forman the results and “claimed my theory” as the leak is in #2 cylinder causing the misfire.

They were gobsmacked to be holding this lab report and could not believe I had done this. They did not investigate on their own but determined the #2 cylinder intake valve was stuck open and damaged the camshaft. They REFUSED to address the leak and even said the tech looked at my report and said “coolant in the oil is NORMAL”. FCA became involved and I insisted on the engineers to confirm that statement. Engineers ONLY COMMENTED that the coolant leak did not damage the camshaft. That’s it.
The service papers I got back detailed my claim and the lab result of the leak and said I thought the head was warped. I never said that.

Concerning the lab stating to change the oil…my first lab report at 1000k kms said to change the oil which I did. I did the second change at 10k kms and lab result ALERTED me to a coolant leak and to change oil and filter. I’ve done 5 lab samples up to 20k kms. All of them ALERT to coolant leak and to change oil and filter. My next sample and change will be at 30k. I’m at 25400k kms now. This time I will take to another lab who will actually measure the amount of coolant in the oil. It’s all hard data and Chrysler can’t argue it.

Concern Metrotech vs Blackstone.

Metrotech not only will analyze the used oil but insists on a fresh bottle sample to cross check the numbers. You see that in the lab result I provided.

Blackstone does not but will take a “mean average” of all the numbers across the country in relation to that item being sampled. Personally that is not an indication you may have problems seeing how everyone else is doing.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Just dropped off the Gladiator at National Transmission and talked with the main guy here. I showed him the lab result on the transmission and he said the “GLYCOL in the transmission is alarming! He’s worked for Chrysler for 42 years and to see glycol in the tranny via a lab result is alarming and must be flushed out!”

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That's funny because even in the days of open vent transmissions with dipsticks and fill tubes, you didn't do a full flush at 20K.
We always said "decide based on your driving, towing, etc."
I used to rebuild automatic transmissions and even in the 80s, you'd go over 20,000 miles between fluid changes. Some did it more frequently because the filter (such as it was LOL - a screen for some, a piece of cotton fabric for others) and pan gasket were dirt cheap and a few quarts of fluid MOPAR and Ford had converter drains, GM and others usually did not although I did drill and tap a few to drain them and put a plug back in. So half the cars out there didn't even get a full fluid change because the converter held about half the fluid.
These are mostly sealed and far far better clutch materials, less slippage and so on.
If your father's 75 Chevy with open unfiltered venting and iffy cooling and using that old school ATF and a screen for a "filter" didn't need such frequent service - how would these?

 

[Gvsukids]

I had heard that we have lifetime transmission fluid. Why flush the transmission instead of draining and filling?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I had heard that we have lifetime transmission fluid. Why flush the transmission instead of draining and filling?

Because draining and filling only gets out what's in the pan. Not what's in the cooler, the converter, and in other nooks and crannies. A transmission of old may hold 9 quarts but a drain, change filter and refill may take care of only 1/3 of that.
Here's what I recall for a THM 350 (GM) transmission -
9-10 quarts if it was totally dry.
The pan holds about 3 quarts.
MOPAR transmissions like the TF727, 998, 904 and so on typically had a converter drain, GM did not so you had several quarts in the converter - along with crud - that never got changed out.
The Ford C4 and C6 also had converter drains I seem to recall - been a while since I had one of those apart.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

That's funny because even in the days of open vent transmissions with dipsticks and fill tubes, you didn't do a full flush at 20K.
We always said "decide based on your driving, towing, etc."
I used to rebuild automatic transmissions and even in the 80s, you'd go over 20,000 miles between fluid changes. Some did it more frequently because the filter (such as it was LOL - a screen for some, a piece of cotton fabric for others) and pan gasket were dirt cheap and a few quarts of fluid MOPAR and Ford had converter drains, GM and others usually did not although I did drill and tap a few to drain them and put a plug back in. So half the cars out there didn't even get a full fluid change because the converter held about half the fluid.
These are mostly sealed and far far better clutch materials, less slippage and so on.
If your father's 75 Chevy with open unfiltered venting and iffy cooling and using that old school ATF and a screen for a "filter" didn't need such frequent service - how would these?

With your experience of rebuilding tranny’s and seeing the wear and damage you have…if you were to rewrite the maintenance schedule of the auto transmission, what would the schedule look like to keep that tranny going it’s farthest? Include it all from simple drain and fill to full flushes to type of ATF (conventional, semi-synthetic to full synthetic). What would the rewritten schedule say?

 

[Trickster]

Well I have personal experience of doing a required maintenance flush on a Subaru only to have problems “after” the flush. Why, apparently from a knowledgeable mechanic “sometimes” a flush will dislodge unwanted crap into the transmission. The recommended way is to do a dump and fill, drive 50 miles, repeat the dump and fill, and do it again one last time. I dunno, I sold it shortly thereafter it was my winter beater that was getting tired and got a fair price so, why not.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Well I have personal experience of doing a required maintenance flush on a Subaru only to have problems “after” the flush. Why, apparently from a knowledgeable mechanic “sometimes” a flush will dislodge unwanted crap into the transmission. The recommended way is to do a dump and fill, drive 50 miles, repeat the dump and fill, and do it again one last time. I dunno, I sold it shortly thereafter it was my winter beater that was getting tired and got a fair price so, why not.

What was your MILAGE on the car?

 

[dcmdon]

Because draining and filling only gets out what's in the pan. Not what's in the cooler, the converter, and in other nooks and crannies. A transmission of old may hold 9 quarts but a drain, change filter and refill may take care of only 1/3 of that.
Here's what I recall for a THM 350 (GM) transmission -
9-10 quarts if it was totally dry.
The pan holds about 3 quarts.
MOPAR transmissions like the TF727, 998, 904 and so on typically had a converter drain, GM did not so you had several quarts in the converter - along with crud - that never got changed out.
The Ford C4 and C6 also had converter drains I seem to recall - been a while since I had one of those apart.

So then the flush/fill vs drain/fill becomes a question of economics and time.

We all know the engineering truism that perfect is the enemy of good.

I'm pulling these prices out of thin air because I have no idea what a flush/fill costs.

but if I can do a drain/fill for $25 and do it twice for for $50. (change oil, drive the car for a day, drain and fill again) and a flush/fill costs $300 then the choice is obvious to me.

If the Flush/fill cost $100 well then its different. my time is worth something.

Please excuse my ignorance on this one question - does the AT on a pentastar Gladiator have an external filter? Any filter of any kind?

Thanks

 

[dcmdon]

Well I have personal experience of doing a required maintenance flush on a Subaru only to have problems “after” the flush. Why, apparently from a knowledgeable mechanic “sometimes” a flush will dislodge unwanted crap into the transmission. The recommended way is to do a dump and fill, drive 50 miles, repeat the dump and fill, and do it again one last time. I dunno, I sold it shortly thereafter it was my winter beater that was getting tired and got a fair price so, why not.

Back when I worked as a used car tech at a Saab/Subaru dealer we had exactly this problem. (I know nearly nothing about how ATs work. All those oil galleys immediately put my ADHD brain into melt down. Ha. )

We got in a fancy flush machine and the service writers started pushing this service. It was a new way to make money.

Saabs and Subarus tended to last a long time. (Subarus lasted forever if they didn't rust out first) and we started flushing 100k mile cars and problems almost instantly surfaced. We stopped providing the service to cars that were high mile and had never had the service done.

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