4xe Gladiator Hybrid (PHEV) Confirmed by Jeep CEO for 2025! ⚡️

[AmosMoses]

Kind of like our grandparents saying they would never own a fuel injected or computer controlled vehicle LOL

I don't think the government was subsidizing computer controlled vehicles, nor had it squandered billions of tax dollars earmarked for fuelling stations for said cars. I also don't remember the technology being a result of regulation but I could be wrong. We DID however lose the import of the land-rover defender because of airbag mandates.

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[Banned]

Kind of like our grandparents saying they would never own a fuel injected or computer controlled vehicle LOL

You thinking there's even a remote correlation between this and EV's makes me abandon all hope for mankind.

 

[Banned]

I don't think the government was subsidizing computer controlled vehicles, nor had it squandered billions of tax dollars earmarked for fuelling stations for said cars. I also don't remember the technology being a result of regulation but I could be wrong. We DID however lose the import of the land-rover defender because of airbag mandates.

^^^ This. Thank you, Amos.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I also don't remember the technology being a result of regulation but I could be wrong.

It absolutely did come about due to regulations - EPA emissions regulations. You can't hold a tune for 50,000 miles with a carburetor and points triggered ignition. Electronic spark controls and fuel injection was a direct result of emissions rules from our EPA/federal government.
With electronic ignition, there's longer dwell periods not dependent on the number of degrees between distributor cam lobes, resulting in a hotter spark at higher speeds. There's no dwell drift as the points rubbing block wears, and thus no timing drift. As the rubbing block wears, the point gap decreases and timing is retarded. Worn spark plugs won't fire after 50,000 miles due to the limitations of the ignition system (GM's HEI at first had 0.080" plug gap - that was a disaster, so they finally settled on around 0.050" gap).
You can't control the fuel mixture as closely with a carburetor. In the 1980s things really tightened up and the computer controlled carburetors were just not working out - couldn't hold accurate mixture for the mandated number of miles.

EFI and electronic ignition were 100% the result of regulations. And the auto makers struggled horribly to try to comply - I was trying to keep cars running in that time period, and it wasn't a fun thing. Idle mixture screws were capped - either with a nylon cap, or by a hardened steel cover pressed into the carburetor's throttle body.
I trained for electronic controlled carburetors back then - oh, the fun.

 

[Minty JL]

You thinking there's even a remote correlation between this and EV's makes me abandon all hope for mankind.

Clearly reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

 

[Minty JL]

I don't think the government was subsidizing computer controlled vehicles, nor had it squandered billions of tax dollars earmarked for fuelling stations for said cars. I also don't remember the technology being a result of regulation but I could be wrong. We DID however lose the import of the land-rover defender because of airbag mandates.

You totally missed the point, SMH

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just flew across the country to visit family for a week and rented a 4xe Wrangler Willys. I enjoyed getting an opportunity to do a "long term" test of the 4xe since not only do I own a diesel Gladiator, but also a Chevy Volt (PHEV) and Chevy Bolt (EV). Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to take it off road, but I did get to evaluate its performance in pretty much every street driving scenario and I thought I would share my experience.

Jeep's integration of gas and electric blending isn't as refined as Chevy's, in particular when shifting from drive to reverse as there was oftentimes a large clunk/surge. The electric drive mode did not have as linear and easy-to-drive accelerator/regen pedal as the Volt and Bolt, which made it hard to drive smoothly. This is partially due to the fact that the power from the motor has to pass through a multi-speed transmission rather than being an all-range direct-drive, but the "throttle" and regen mapping need some work before they'll be on the same level as Chevy's.

Power and torque in hybrid mode felt roughly the same as that of my diesel Gladiator, but the Wrangler's little 4-cylinder really had to wind itself up and work hard to make its power, whereas the diesel just produces its power effortlessly. I really didn't like how much lag there was when stepping down on the accelerator before any power was produced; first the engine has to fire up, then match revs to the motor, then build some turbo boost, and then build some revs before it produced much acceleration. As an EV owner, I'm spoiled by the instant torque an electric motor produces so the little bit of lag my turbodiesel suffers from is already a disappointment, but that pales in comparison to the agonizingly long delay from the 4xe powertrain.

4xe power and torque were not quite what I was expecting either. 375hp/470tq under a lightweight Wrangler on little 31" tires should have impressed me, but it felt roughly the same as the 260hp/442tq from my HEAVILY uparmored Gladiator diesel on 37's with stock gearing. And as I mentioned, the 4xe has a long delay in power application, and it works really hard to produce its acceleration compared to the lazy diesel. I also have a Banks Derringer, which is a whole new level of fast when I need it with approximately 317hp/515tq. Wheelspin and traction control are an issue with my diesel anytime I get a little enthusiastic with the accelerator pedal; the only time I spun the tires on the 4xe was in the rain, and only when I put my foot to the floor.

Where the Wrangler 4xe shines is in around-town daily-driver applications. I put a couple hundred all-electric miles on the rental Jeep driving from town to town, and it was a very similar experience to what I'm used to with my Volt and Bolt. It saved me a full tank of gas over a week of driving. I got as much as 28 miles on a charge. Also, it drove like a regular gas-powered Jeep on the 2-hour highway trip to/from the airport, with no need to worry about finding a charging station. Overall fuel economy for the week was an indicated 25.2mpg, which is roughly what I would have gotten with my diesel Gladiator over the same week of mixed city/highway driving.....but on 37's and a lot more weight than the stock little Wrangler had to haul around.

Overall, the decision to go with a 4xe comes down to picking the right tool for the job. I think it makes a lot more sense in a mallcrawler Wrangler than it does in an offroading, tow/hauling Gladiator. A lot of people who want to daily drive a Gladiator on the street would appreciate the fuel savings and power boost over a gas engine, but I know that I'd sure miss the supplemental power and torque that the 4xe's electric motor produces when towing my travel trailer up into the mountains, since the battery would be depleted after only a few miles, leaving me with only the gas engine. In flat terrain it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but I bought a Gladiator because I like going up to the mountains and doing Jeep and truck things.

When the Gladiator first came out, I really wanted a 4xe version. But for my needs, I'm glad that I bought a diesel and didn't wait for the 4xe Gladiator to become available. For me, having an electric daily driver and a turbodiesel weekend toy makes a lot more sense.

Put it in 4H auto - otherwise it limits torque to the wheels - traction control.
there's no lag - I can blow others away from a dead stop with our 4xe. The electric is there instantly and the engine kicks in and the first eighth mile is killer. You'll lose in the full quarter mile, but off the line for the first bit, there's no real lag and it will beat a diesel off the line.
People pull up in the other lanes believing a little Jeep Wrangler will be a pooch - they expect to blow by me, cut in when their lane ends and be out front.
Surprise! Doesn't happen for them. (don't tell my wife! It's technically "her Jeep")

Too bad people test driving the 4xe don't realize - for full appreciation, you need it in 4HA.

 

[AmosMoses]

You totally missed the point, SMH

What was the point then? Iam pretty sure I knew what you meant.

 

[Minty JL]

What was the point then? Iam pretty sure I knew what you meant.

Some people don't like change

 

[Alc]

I agree with shadowspapa, it’s hard to separate modern change from government regulation especially when it comes to vehicles these days. Funny is that usually the invention has nothing to do with government then all of a sudden someone elected or a part of governance tries to mandate it for all. With that said ALL change has its pros and cons and these EVs and PHEVs are no different. Just make sure you make an informed decision by taking a look at both columns and try to remove biases (which is hard for me). Ultimately sales will decided the future of these technologies, not government. If PHEVs aren’t what the customer wants then sales will drop and mechanics and shops that are proficient in these “simple-old ICE” technologies will thrive. Many manufacturers are finding that out after losing billions chasing the constantly-changing government 30 year goals.

 

[AmosMoses]

Some people don't like change

That is absolutely true. I've seen it myself in all aspects of life. That is isn't the case for me. Innovation and advancements in technology are exciting. Battery technology is exciting.​

​

What percentage of people do you think shun EV's because they just don't like change and what percentage of people do you think are apprehensive to evs because they don't like the return on investment?​

 

[dcmdon]

I don't think the government was subsidizing computer controlled vehicles, nor had it squandered billions of tax dollars earmarked for fuelling stations for said cars. I also don't remember the technology being a result of regulation but I could be wrong. We DID however lose the import of the land-rover defender because of airbag mandates.

Regulation absolutely brought about fuel injection and computer controlled engines (as well as chassis)

Fuel economy and emissions regulations made it all but mandatory.

The European makers adopted injection as early as the late 60s and were able to continue to make more power with their little engines.

As an example, a 2 liter normally aspirated Saab made 110 hp in 1975. By 78, they had a turbo 2 liter that made 140 hp. By 84, it made 160 hp. By 89, they had a 2.3l turbo with 235 hp.

In contrast, domestic makers tried to make do with carburetors and air pumps and all kinds of "smog" crap to make the care cleaner. This was cheaper to do than a real fuel injection system with an ignition system that adjusted advance based on not just RPM but manifold pressure.

This kind of lazy engineering eventually bottomed out in 1981 with the 190 hp Corvette. At this time Saab was getting 140 hp out of 2 liters vs 190 hp out of 5.7 liters.

In '82 GM made another half assed effort with the introduction of "crossfire" injection. Essentially a twin throat throttle body injection system that did a marginally better job than the preceding carburetors. But at least it was the first time that power had gone up in 13 years.

p.s. I only mention Saab because in this era I was working at a Saab dealer and we were continually amazed by the stuff they came up with. Most of us had V8 powered American cars.

When the 2.3l Turbo 9000 came out it was legitimately quicker than most of the V8 cars you could buy back then. In fact it was the quickest sedan you could buy in the US.

. . . and they got 28 mpg.

 

[dcmdon]

I agree with shadowspapa, it’s hard to separate modern change from government regulation especially when it comes to vehicles these days. Funny is that usually the invention has nothing to do with government then all of a sudden someone elected or a part of governance tries to mandate it for all. With that said ALL change has its pros and cons and these EVs and PHEVs are no different. Just make sure you make an informed decision by taking a look at both columns and try to remove biases (which is hard for me). Ultimately sales will decided the future of these technologies, not government. If PHEVs aren’t what the customer wants then sales will drop and mechanics and shops that are proficient in these “simple-old ICE” technologies will thrive. Many manufacturers are finding that out after losing billions chasing the constantly-changing government 30 year goals.

PHEVs are selling because to most people there is no down side.

sure they are heavier and more complex. But most people don't know anything about that. And Japanese manufacturers have proven over 25+ years of hybrid production that reliability isn't a problem.

The pitch is very simple and also compelling.

Here is a plain old ice version. It makes 200 hp and gets 25 mpg and costs X

here is a hybrid. It makes 250 hp and gets 45 mpg. It costs 1.1X

Here is a plug in hybrid. If you plug it in, it will run 30 miles all electric, it makes 350 hp and gets 55 mpg. It costs 1.3 x

Take your pick. Lets not forget that the 4xe makes the same torque as the fabled 392

 

[Alc]

PHEVs are selling because to most people there is no down side.

sure they are heavier and more complex. But most people don't know anything about that. And Japanese manufacturers have proven over 25+ years of hybrid production that reliability isn't a problem.

The pitch is very simple and also compelling.

Here is a plain old ice version. It makes 200 hp and gets 25 mpg and costs X

here is a hybrid. It makes 250 hp and gets 45 mpg. It costs 1.1X

Here is a plug in hybrid. If you plug it in, it will run 30 miles all electric, it makes 350 hp and gets 55 mpg. It costs 1.3 x

Take your pick. Lets not forget that the 4xe makes the same torque as the fabled 392

Over simplifying the list of pros and cons is exactly what creates more bias and therefore more arguments. I’m just thankful, like you said above, we have a choice for now. Heavy means nothing to most, so agree…but complexity and cost of repair does and will. Saying your PHEV gets XXmpg (in ANY truck) is a complete fabrication based solely on how you may use it, not as another uses theirs since they’re meant to be versatile. PHEV might be the best truck for empty use but not for light/heavy duty work. Like shadowspapa said, all that power is available when in 4hi auto but not readily in other modes which can produce rough drivetrain feeling (and what does leaving it in 4HA do to your mpge?). You can easily get those same 392 hp/tq out of many traditional and efficient IC engines, Stellantis just never designed one, not because it wasn’t possible they just didn’t see the R&D cost benefit. Again, there are also many pros to the hybrids. You also mentioned the Japanese who are NOT using hybrids in their trucks for mpgs, they’re solely using it for power to overcome downsizing engines. Which leads to the mess that is the tundra. So they’re still trying to figure the hybrid-truck thing out as well. I guess we will see how the Tacoma hybrids do and if Toyota has learned anything. I’m not against change but I have been on the earth long enough to know that we may not know the true repercussions of our decisions for another decade or longer.

Here are some very complex questions:

1. how much more energy does it take to produce a hybrid than a traditional ICE engine?
2. How much more energy is needed to operate vehicle due to increased weight?
3. Over the life of the vehicle is that difference in energy from questions 1&2 recouped?
4. What produces more waste (to include gaseous) to build, use over its lifetime, maintain, and dispose of ICE vs Hybrid.
5. How do these vehicles perform when past their intended lifecycle (go drive through poor neighborhoods in your community and see just how many 25+ year old cars there are sometimes beat to hell).

These are incredibly difficult questions to mathematically solve but are the true questions we should be demanding answers to. My guess would be that Hybrids are statistically better but not by much. All that being said I’m sure my next family vehicle will be a hybrid, I just like to understand all the pros and cons.

 

[Banned]

Jeep can't even get the electrical system on ICE vehicles to work properly, and people can't wait for them to expand their incompetence of electronics to the entire vehicle? Nevermind, I guess that makes perfect sense these days.

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