Another Death wobble conflicting info Clayton lift

[jsturges18]

23 gladiator sport s 30,000 miles

Clayton ride right 2.5 (adj front upper arms, f/r trackbars) Whiteline sways, Falcon shocks/stabilzer

fifteen52 17x9 on bfg k02 37x12.5

the Clayton lift went on per instructions (other than flipped uppers, whoops, shop fixed it) and the jeep had kenda Klever 35x10.5 on it.

a an authorized Clayton dealer shop offered bfg 37s installed and to adjust my suspension alignment properly. (Caster, pinion angle).

Clayton’s instructions say the front upper control arms should be eye to eye at 20 1/4” to get correct caster. The shop adjusted them all the way down closer to 19 inches saying this gives the proper caster. Since the adjustments and 37s my jeep now has death wobble at low and high speeds. I re adjusted the control arms to Clayton’s specs and the low speed death wobble is gone. High speed I haven’t tried but I believe it may still be there when hitting big bumps (Why bother with adj uppers if they are adjusted to stock length

the shop believes it to be ball joint related (common gladiator issue) However I’m trying to knock off easy things first. I’m getting a proper road force balancing done, I ordered mopar extended lower control arms and I adjusted the tire pressures down from the 40s to the 30s.

is there something I’m missing or any input from everyone’s experiences?
It’s weird that the shop says one thing but Clayton says another and the shop is a Clayton dealer.

also, everything underneath looks good and has been retorqued. I followed a few of the other threads to help find the issue and it truly seems like an alignment or wheel balance issue.

thanks for any help and input. I’m ready to move on from jeeps lol

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[Bandit’s Lair]

Once the balance and alignment is checked I’d look very close at those ball joints again. Clayton may be telling you something but the shop is actually under the vehicle with their hands on it. Hands on diagnosis is much preferred than by proxy. Then it’s just the process of deciding what units you want from there. Did they check wheel bearings when they did all this too?

 

[jsturges18]

Once the balance and alignment is checked I’d look very close at those ball joints again. Clayton may be telling you something but the shop is actually under the vehicle with their hands on it. Hands on diagnosis is much preferred than by proxy. Then it’s just the process of deciding what units you want from there. Did they check wheel bearings when they did all this too?

Thank you for the reply. The shop has a great reputation and I want to believe them. My distrust with the shop comes from damaging my wheels and double stacking wheel weights that were hitting my right rear brake caliper.

I don’t believe wheel bearings were checked. I can do that tomorrow. On my drive today with speeds under 50mph and with Clayton specs there was no death wobble when hitting bumps. So weird.

 

[jsturges18]

I think this is less about the death wobble and more about the conflicting information between Clayton and the Clayton Authorized retailer.

If I have the Clayton upper control arms set to Clayton’s specs, should I still run adjustable or extended lower control arms?

 

[NGNERD]

I would focus on getting the caster correct and not the recommended distance of the upper control arms. Recommended caster should be on the forum somewhere, been too long for me to remember what Clayton advised me back then, would recommend posting a copy of your alignment specs for others to review. Good luck, you'll get there

 

[justbig]

What's the castor set to? The length of the control arm is to set castor. I would use the Clayton distance as a starting point. Then fine tune the castor to somewhere around 6 degrees. I'm happy with 6.5degrees.

 

[GuzziMoto]

If you run both longer lower front control arms and adjustable uppers, the length of the uppers would have to be longer than the standard Clayton numbers. It is not, as mentioned, about control arm length but rather about how much caster do you actually have. It is actually really common to run both adjustable upper arms and adjustable lower arms. You just set them as required to get the desired amount of caster. You also need the correct amount of toe in. Not enough caster and you can have stability issues.
The other question is, are you experiencing wobble, or death wobble. Death wobble is a massively violent wobble that happens unexpectedly and requires you to slow down to a stop or near stop to make it go away, Where as wobbles can be caused by balance issues, wheel bearings, or anything else out rotationally. Death wobble, on the other hand, is almost always caused by play in the system. Whether it is balljoints, trackbar ends, draglink ends, anything that allows for play in the steering system. Without that play, deathwobble generally can't happen. Sadly, the JL and JT seem to have issues with that steering system that make it prone to play in the system leading to issues with deathwobble. But often people get a wobble and due to reputation they immediately think "death wobble".

There is a great set of videos (2 of them) from Planman on death wobble. The quality of the videos is not great, but the information in them is.

 

[jsturges18]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

I don’t have caster measurement yet. I should have that by the end of the week. I’m sure as it sits caster is around 2.5-3
Degree. The shop adjusted it to 6 but that’s when I had low and high speed death wobble. With it adjusted back to Clayton’s recommend

I only have wobble over 50mph. Yes it is confirmed death wobble. I do have some automotive background.

So it seems if I install the lowers, adjust the uppers to 6-6.5 degrees of caster, if there is still death wobble, I need to look at other components?

tires were rebalanced today with a “static balancing”. They found all 4 tires off balanced from previous work. It does ride better but still wobble over 50 when hitting

heres a picture of it for funsies

 

[Main Line Willys]

I see that you are in Connecticut. I know the state can be a real pain to drive through, but how far are you from @Clayton Off Road ? It may be work talking to them directly and have one of their guys look at your Jeep.

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

Off Topic: Nice looking Truck!!!! Can you take a closer picture of that spotlight and the mount for it? I haven’t seen that position for lighting before.

 

[jsturges18]

Not far, maybe 45 minutes from Clayton. I went there to pick up parts. Didn’t get too far with customer service but I have hope they maybe will post here or I may try another call lol they are very friendly but customer service just sends me to an authorized dealer after talking to them a bit.

 

[jsturges18]

Off Topic: Nice looking Truck!!!! Can you take a closer picture of that spotlight and the mount for it? I haven’t seen that position for lighting before.

Thank you! Sure thing! The mounts are called side shooters by Maximus-3. Originally I could only find them on Tyri’s website but I see extreme terrain sells them, same price.

highly recommend them, very stout, no vibrations. Perfect spot to aim to the side and not be too buggy or “same” looking as others.

https://tyrioffroad.com/collections/brackets/products/side-shooter-brackets-jeep-jl-jt

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

AWESOME!! That actually solves a few different issues for me. I hadn’t seen this product before now. Might pick up a set and stash em for later. Haven’t decided on lighting yet and so much else to do beforehand.

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