Any EE's here familiar with US 60 hertz home power?

[MrZappo]

Whatever amount of time you think you need, double it.

Power outages that have you scrambling are not a good place to be.

Mistakes happen under pressure.

Ask me how I know.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Here is another

As long as you use a commercial grade online double conversion ups, size is only a concern as far as it is within your wattage requirements and you have calculated the runtime based on your draw.

You need to know:

1) That the unit will supply the wattage you need.

2) That it has enough batteries to supply that wattage for the amount of time you need. Or that it is modular in design so that your can add batteries in the chassis or that you can daisy chain more batteries to it via cables to add runtime to meet your requirements now or in the future.

3) That you have a place for the unit that will not exceed it's temperature requirements normally or in a power outage situation. If your ups overheats when your air conditioning goes out at the same time it is not useful. Obviously.

4) That the area you kept it is relatively stable from a temperature standpoint and can be maintained below about 78 degrees which will decrease the battery life by half. Not that it won't work but can get expensive.

Stay away from Tripp-lite, apc, cyberpower, dell, and other consumer grade junk.

It is far better to buy the smallest ups offered by a company that manufactures large commercial ups units than it is to buy the largest product from a company who manufactures tiny stuff.

And if you have a decent generator, th we units should do fine. Install a ATS and never worry again.

Her equipment is in our lower level - walkout basement, fully finished. It's always the coolest part of the house. There's a "closet", actually a small room, where I have my network stuff terminated, a small NAS unit, small switch, and where our breaker box is.
I was thinking it could plug to the outlet that's on the breaker box and then we could run the outlets that power her machines to it in there since they all run into that area for the breaker box anyway. It never gets hot in there as it's the part of the basement that is actually more underground than the rest.

 

[AggieJeep]

You also may be able to program a shutdown when the power stays off for a few minutes. Allow the short blips to skip shutdowns. You may find this solves your random glitches and with a bit of programming, get it all cleanly shutdown with longer outages.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Followed the second link - Liebert is the brand of the big unit we had handing our rack in the state agency I worked for. You could live-swap batteries, it told you if any given battery was getting weak, it was pretty cool.

 

[MrZappo]

Her equipment is in our lower level - walkout basement, fully finished. It's always the coolest part of the house. There's a "closet", actually a small room, where I have my network stuff terminated, a small NAS unit, small switch, and where our breaker box is.
I was thinking it could plug to the outlet that's on the breaker box and then we could run the outlets that power her machines to it in there since they all run into that area for the breaker box anyway. It never gets hot in there as it's the part of the basement that is actually more underground than the rest.

That is fine. Just consider that these types of units are usually 90+ efficient.

The rest turns to heat as part of the double conversion process.

So it will add heat to the area it resides. More heat as you add more load.

A closet is a no go as the heat will be trapped and continually rise.

An open area with enough thermal mass to reach an equilibrium is acceptable.

 

[MrZappo]

Followed the second link - Liebert is the brand of the big unit we had handing our rack in the state agency I worked for. You could live-swap batteries, it told you if any given battery was getting weak, it was pretty cool.

Liebert is great reliable stuff. They are now owned by Vertiv.

You can never go wrong with Liebert anything. You pay for it of course but it is worth every penny.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Liebert is great reliable stuff. They are now owned by Vertiv.

You can never go wrong with Liebert anything. You pay for it of course but it is worth every penny.

I contacted Vertiv via their web site and asked for contact info of a sales person, etc. and sent a short list of needs.
That was last night. Today I got an email and a phone call from a local rep. We chatted a bit, he asked for the specific load information from each piece of equipment, the size of the breakers involved and so on and already sent me a couple of possible solutions. One being a high-end filter, the other being a true double conversion sine wave UPS.
Price was about where I was expecting. The efficiency numbers are right up there and we talked about location a bit. No problem where where I'd like to locate it (especially since the top of that room is actually open to the space above the ceilings of the other rooms around it)
So, will be looking into one of these, likely the top since it would allow for all contingencies and be the ultimate in clean power, even on a generator.

GXT5-1500 (true on line dual conversion)

PSI5-1500 (line interactive power filter)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I bought the GXT5 1500 and in talking to the rep decided to get something to cover my Tablo (a Canadian compact DVR with cool features), Orbi router, Cisco desktopswitch, and a couple of other things on the entertainment center area. For that I just bought a Liebert UPS, not true sine wave since that equipment is much more forgiving and I was mainly concerned about our periodic hiccups that throw things offline now and then.

Got the GXT5 installed and working. The guy even brought it out as he wanted to see my wife's quilting machine and the IQ equipment.
It's set up now to cover the quilting machine, IQ system and her embroidery machine.

Problem solved - pure sine wave clean power stable voltage stable frequency.

 

[legacy_etu]

Nice. It's so nice when you actually get good service, isn't it? Sounds like the verticv rep. took care of you. Happens so infrequently these days. Last time it happened for me was the shop that installed my True Trac.

Anyway, enjoy.

 

[TheSolarWizard]

If you’re into solar (and even if you’re not) we use a brand of inverters called Sol-Ark (mostly for off grid systems and sometimes huge battery bank hybrid systems).
a very good electrician can integrate one into your main panel such that the entirety of your electricity flows through it, giving you a pure sine wave. Pairing it with batteries (with or without solar) would provide excellent albeit more expensive vs UPS backup power for the whole home or selected circuits

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If you’re into solar (and even if you’re not) we use a brand of inverters called Sol-Ark (mostly for off grid systems and sometimes huge battery bank hybrid systems).
a very good electrician can integrate one into your main panel such that the entirety of your electricity flows through it, giving you a pure sine wave. Pairing it with batteries (with or without solar) would provide excellent albeit more expensive vs UPS backup power for the whole home or selected circuits

We saw commercials on TV for a solar system like that and I was excited until I looked into the price. STARTING, base price, 10K and that was a very basic setup.
I was thinking of that because there's no backup generator made (unless you go permanent whole-house LP systems) that will handle our heat pump.
I bought the biggest portable generator I could get locally and there's just no way to power our heat pump with it.
Trust me - I was very interested for the exact reasons you mentioned - controlled power - clean power, backup power (and ultimately after it pays for itself, CHEAP power)
Luckily, as far as electric, we have the 11th lowest electric rates in the country.

I'll save your info for reference as at some point I'd like us to have a whole-house setup and my wife has asked about solar or wind (it's almost always windy here)

 

[TheSolarWizard]

We saw commercials on TV for a solar system like that and I was excited until I looked into the price. STARTING, base price, 10K and that was a very basic setup.
I was thinking of that because there's no backup generator made (unless you go permanent whole-house LP systems) that will handle our heat pump.
I bought the biggest portable generator I could get locally and there's just no way to power our heat pump with it.
Trust me - I was very interested for the exact reasons you mentioned - controlled power - clean power, backup power (and ultimately after it pays for itself, CHEAP power)
Luckily, as far as electric, we have the 11th lowest electric rates in the country.

I'll save your info for reference as at some point I'd like us to have a whole-house setup and my wife has asked about solar or wind (it's almost always windy here)

that ad was probably for Generac. I’d advise against using that equipment. We troubleshoot for them on warranty basis and they keep us very busy. I wasn’t pitching for work just suggesting A brand I know to work very well. but of course if you did ever want a system any forum members get a super duper hookup.

we do install some 1&2 kW wind turbines also but they can be finicky in bad weather

 

[ShadowsPapa]

that ad was probably for Generac. I’d advise against using that equipment. We troubleshoot for them on warranty basis and they keep us very busy. I wasn’t pitching for work just suggesting A brand I know to work very well. but of course if you did ever want a system any forum members get a super duper hookup.

we do install some 1&2 kW wind turbines also but they can be finicky in bad weather

Yeah, it was.
We were both quite serious about that sort of system right after that 2020 derecho here, and then last month that serial derecho hit and I had to remind my wife again - the generator we have is fine - if it's not REALLY cold outside as we won't have heat.
We have a small house, no real place for banks of batteries. Even where I have the double conversion UPS is tight. They had trouble getting the new breaker box in when I had it replaced 2 years ago.
I'd ask a pro familiar with such systems before ever buying because it's a huge investment and just too important to screw up. And as my wife keeps reminding me when I try to save money - I'd regret it and just have to buy whatever it was over again later.

 

[kooltoys]

@shadowpapa you are very capiable, so Is now the time to try some offgrid solar? 100ah battery with 300-400watts of panels? dedicate it to 1 room and build out from there..

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@shadowpapa you are very capiable, so Is now the time to try some offgrid solar? 100ah battery with 300-400watts of panels? dedicate it to 1 room and build out from there..

I had actually thought about doing that with my shop..........

The 200 amp panel in the house supplies the garage through a 60 amp breaker into a panel in the garage, and supplies my shop through a 100 amp breaker and a 100 amp box in my shop. It's critical that I maintain some climate control out there with all my plating stuff, the wood shop upstairs with paints and finishes (and all that oak)
Setting up panels would be tricky as it's a 27' tall steel building with a gambrel roof and the roof faces east and west - contrary to the needs of solar panels facing south. (but I've not seen every solar installation in the world so I'm sure it's not that bad for experts)

The house would be tricky because of how the electric panel is squeezed in with extremely little room to access individual wires. Things are split up really weird.
Such a project one room or area at a time, would be one way to start.

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