Are new cars too complex to service?

[seven30]

Exactly this! I never used any of the free oil changes on my JT or JL. Peace of mind knowing it's done correctly by you and you take the time and care required.

Plus you can save each little filter and have a nice engine history. I purchased 12 filters when I bought the truck and just slip the old ones in the box with date and millage. Although these V6s seem pretty tough.

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[Orange01z28]

I hate to be this guy but with this amount of tech people are going to have to start getting paid more

I'm in another industry that has been moving from it's own niche into more general tech and all of the other ancillary tech things that come with it, like security and networking

Major markets and national channels pay 6 figures to start now and we're still getting people that won't take the job because they expect more

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is an overvaluation that job seekers apply to themselves, but with rampant CoL increases employers are going to have to catch up

 

[seven30]

I view the economy as a kind of group think entity that to some extent has a life of its own separate from any individual.
I wonder if the inflation we are experiencing is the economy reacting to the large wealth gap that has tied up a massive amount of its green corpuscles. Maybe the economy has a fever.

 

[Gvsukids]

Auto techs don't go through their work and confirm everything is working right because they aren't paid to do that. A&Ps are.

I had to have a drive shaft replaced because the tech who did the rear main seal, forgot to tighten a couple of bolts and the shaft became loose

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The DEF tank was assembled with those sensors, it can be disassembled. Again, FCA chooses not to make the sensors available separately.

Don't you imagine it was at least in part due to the cost of taking something apart and diagnosing and/or replacing some individual part - the labor, vs. replacing the whole thing, and being done with it.
Plus - I don't want some parts-swapper tearing into something trying to figure out the problem, replacing a small parts, putting it back together, back on the truck - oops, that wasn't it.

Me, I replace individual parts, I disassemble to the smallest degree assuming it's possible. I even knock out rivets and re-rivet parts that weren't meant to be taken apart. But I don't want most people messing with my truck in that manner.

Sometimes it's cheaper to replace an entire assembly than to have some guy dink with it 2 hours and be wrong, when it costs less just to swap the whole thing with the cost of labor in some places. We're talking $150-$180 shop rates around here. 2 hours to take something apart, hopefully fix it.....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Plus you can save each little filter and have a nice engine history. I purchased 12 filters when I bought the truck and just slip the old ones in the box with date and millage. Although these V6s seem pretty tough.

I drain them well, line them up on a stack of landscape blocks I have out back - target practice.

 

[dcmdon]

I think the systems are becoming more digital and less analog making it harder for the old school folks who grew up tuning carbs. However, new cars are needing more time between service intervals and are lasting longer (feel free to fact check me on that) before needing major services.

My personal belief is that the diagnostics are actually getting easier with the proper scan tools (think JSCAN for example on our Jeeps) than they were before.

We are seeing parts shortages at the moment, but that's because of everything else going on in the world. It is crazy to me that in November of 2019 we were all just going about our business without a care... or at least that is how I am remembering it.

I agree with you if we look back at analog cars. Modern cars last longer and require less maintenance if you compare them to cars from the 80s back. But I do think they've gone too far.

My wife's 2015 Volvo is CAN bus and essentially a modern car. But it doesn't have all that useless pain in the ass annoying stuff that current cars have that are just nannies or crap added to eke out another 1/2 mpg.

1. You can drive away with the door open.
2. The shifter actually has a mechanical connection to the transmission rather than it being just a switch.
3. If the battery gets weak, the car doesn't start. It doesn't lose its crap and threaten to stop while you are driving.
4. No ESS
5. No codes thrown in 7 years. vs 4 for my Jeep in the last 5 months.

The electronics don't get in the way. They are just there. Invisibly.

 

[seven30]

I agree with you if we look back at analog cars. Modern cars last longer and require less maintenance if you compare them to cars from the 80s back. But I do think they've gone too far.

My wife's 2015 Volvo is CAN bus and essentially a modern car. But it doesn't have all that useless pain in the ass annoying stuff that current cars have that are just nannies or crap added to eke out another 1/2 mpg.

1. You can drive away with the door open.
2. The shifter actually has a mechanical connection to the transmission rather than it being just a switch.
3. If the battery gets weak, the car doesn't start. It doesn't lose its crap and threaten to stop while you are driving.
4. No ESS
5. No codes thrown in 7 years. vs 4 for my Jeep in the last 5 months.

The electronics don't get in the way. They are just there. Invisibly.

When I was a kid we had LED watches. Watches that you had to push a button to tell time. It was all the rage for a year or two then everyone realized having to use to hands to tell time was dumb.

I think manufactures have succumbed to the LED watch syndrome.
Processor power is so massive its very tempting to try and apply it to everything.
They forgot: Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

When I was a kid we had LED watches. Watches that you had to push a button to tell time. It was all the rage for a year or two then everyone realized having to use to hands to tell time was dumb.

I think manufactures have succumbed to the LED watch syndrome.
Processor power is so massive its very tempting to try and apply it to everything.
They forgot: Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I went through that "these are cool" watch craze for a short time - then went right back to watches with hands. If I wore a watch today, I'd pull out the graduation watch my parents gave me years ago - really nice with hands, or my Plymouth Troubleshooting watch because it's very easy for these old eyes to read, and it's analog - hands and all.
I go by the analog/dial type speedometer in my truck and the first thing I did was change the display to get the digital speedo display off the screen.
I don't mind radio dials showing me the exact frequency I'm on, like 93.3 for example, instead of having to line up a little pointer across a "dial", but I also still have my Radio Shack VOMs with the analog needle and they work fine. (yes, I do have a digital Fluke, too)

 

[seven30]

I went through that "these are cool" watch craze for a short time - then went right back to watches with hands. If I wore a watch today, I'd pull out the graduation watch my parents gave me years ago - really nice with hands, or my Plymouth Troubleshooting watch because it's very easy for these old eyes to read, and it's analog - hands and all.
I go by the analog/dial type speedometer in my truck and the first thing I did was change the display to get the digital speedo display off the screen.
I don't mind radio dials showing me the exact frequency I'm on, like 93.3 for example, instead of having to line up a little pointer across a "dial", but I also still have my Radio Shack VOMs with the analog needle and they work fine. (yes, I do have a digital Fluke, too)

Each has their place. I have a dial watch because its fast to check and feel the same about a good analogue dash panel.

Whats funny is people used to think digital it was more accurate when in fact the opposite was true. Both used analogue sensors but digital has the +/- 1 conversion count error.

At least FCA/Jeep realized that push button volume controls on a radio is idiotic.

I kind of like the 2000/2001 Cherokee dash. Its all real analogue display but digitally driven. If you hold down the trip button and turn it on it will go through a entertaining self check.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There's pros and cons to digital displays. Years ago I could tell my wife, who loves passenger seat driving, that I wasn't REALLY going that fast, it was the parallax effect - the distance between the needle and the numbers making it look faster. Can't do that with the digital speedo so that had to go away real fast.

 

[Charles 236]

There's pros and cons to digital displays. Years ago I could tell my wife, who loves passenger seat driving, that I wasn't REALLY going that fast, it was the parallax effect - the distance between the needle and the numbers making it look faster. Can't do that with the digital speedo so that had to go real fast.

I too always switch the digital speedometer to some other gauge. On my daily driver Challenger and my wife's Charger, the display can show show an analog style gauge for other functions, like oil pressure or oil temp. No problem with the digital speedometer giving away how fast I am driving.

As for cars becoming too complicated, yes, they are unnecessarily complicated. Part of it is trying to rely on electronics to do what used to be done mechanically, like timing and fuel metering. I'm okay with the electronics being used for engine controls, I have done my share of sorting out carbs and distributors. Part of it is "Me too" thinking that the manufacturer engages in, not wanting to be perceived as being behind the other companies in technology. Networking everything in a vehicle to everything else has advantages, but adds complexity and steps to diagnosis when (not if) something goes wrong. Makes me glad to think of going to full retirement in about three years.

 

[Deleted member 47279]

I am a super technical guy. I get into the weeds on certain things, but its always depends on the use case. i will never make a complicated device if the primary user is not technical. KISS has always steered me right and jeeps are a double edge sword here. i love all the tech, but i hate when it breaks. So ive determined i will have specific vehicles for the mission. like i wont go mudding in my brand new gladiator cause it caused thousands of dollars of damage, and months of cleaning and repairs by me. I will be buying a $500 truck that i will take into mud pits, and if it becomes more pain than its worth it goes into the junk yard.

 

[WhyNotJeep]

Bought a Ram 2500 4x4 new in 2003. in the 11 years I had it, it never saw the dealer and I don't know if it even had a CEL. Bought a new 2014 Ram 2500 4x4 diesel in 2014 and it has seen the dealer for mor than I want to list and has had 14 recalls. Bought a used 2014 JKUR and in 5 years never had a CEL or dealer visit. Lets hope the 2022 JT works well. So far so good. I will be doing all the service on it myself. I do like the new stuff but fear the electronics.

 

[seven30]

Yep, we have a 2011 WK2, Aside from the hemi cam failure the air suspension has a slow leak somewhere. It seriously pisses me off that
1) You have to have fancy software to even get the codes
2) The fancy multi-ECU CAN bus cannot do its own diag and report on the fancy screen.
If your going to go fancy make it useful.

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