Are You Thinking About Cashing in on an EV

[Brutusx00]

And a new 1/2 ton is 80K; however our Jeeps and a full size truck don't compare to a Model 3. I compared it to a car that is comparable in size and usefulness.
Electric cars are more expensive. You can easily option up a Ionique to 50K but you can get a Elentra N for 30K. So once again....20K more. Remember the title of this thread!

I'm glad you like yours, it would suck to pay 45k for something you didn't.
And you need to watch Out of Spec Reviews if you think I am making up the charging issues. You mention "freezing" but that is only 32 degrees so it isn't what I would call cold.

dajudge said:
"Cashing in" isn't what happens. You pay twice as much money for a car that can't be used when it is cold, causes you to spend 1.5 more times getting somewhere, and has no long term track record.

There is no EV that compares to a jeep. So you can’t really compare them. What convertible four-wheel-drive electric vehicle exists?

And if you live somewhere, where an EV doesn’t work because it’s too cold then you just don’t get to drive an EV.

And the title of the thread is “are you thinking of cashing in on an EV”. We thought about it, it made sense to us, we did it, and now instead of $200 in gas per month she pays $50 in electric and never has to go wait at a gas station ever again.

I got the gladiator because I can tow my equipment with it, I can write it off, it’s four-wheel-drive, and I can drive on the beach with the top off. When an alternative electric vehicle exists that can do all that I will dump my gladiator in a second.

I have a reservation for the Ford lightning but the $50,000 pro model was unavailable for the 2023 model year. That’s the vehicle I would have bought if it was available. It’s $57,000 -$7500 tax rebate and a $2500 state rebate so for $48,000 I could’ve had a four-wheel-drive electric truck. As long as it got more than 200 miles of range I’m good.

Go, drive an ELANTRA, and then drive the ionic five and tell me they’re the same class a vehicle. Just because they’re shaped like a car doesn’t mean they’re the same.

What’s the cheapest gas powered car that does 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds like the model three because that seems like a better comparison to me and it Hass to have leather interior and a full infotainment system.

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[briscoelab]

... will COST TRILLIONS OF Tax payer dollars.

This is so laughable. Trillions??? really? lol.

The entire budget of the US federal government for FY '23 is ~1.6trillion. Our GDP is ~25T. You think it would cost multiples of the US federal budget to roll out better charging networks?

I know people, in general, are really bad at wrapping their head around very large numbers... but come on. The old joke of what's the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire applies here. ie "about a billion dollars".

The switch to EV and PHEV is the future. Trust me, I love my diesel gladiator and V8 powered vehicles. I love my motorcycles. But I'm under no illusion that in 30-50 year time frame... things will be drastically different in what people are driving in developed countries.

When we get a new wrangler, it will be a 4xe. It would be so foolish not to for our use case. 1. Great MPG in hybrid mode. 2. good power and torque. 3. Ability to drive to and from work on a daily basis using zero gas.


Being from the upper midwest, I'm proud of the investment this area has put into wind power development. The factories provide good jobs to many types of workers. The installation and service of the turbines also provide great paying jobs, that are needed on an ongoing basis. It's windy AF here, most of the time. Why not take advantage of that?

Wind, solar, and nuclear power generation just makes sense moving into the future. Investment in R&D for these areas will only continue to make them move efficient and affordable.

People are also really bad at thinking about time lines longer than 10-20 years... let alone a lifetime. 100 years from now, the world will look very different, especially from a climate and technology standpoint.

 

[briscoelab]

dajudge said:


And if you live somewhere, where an EV doesn’t work because it’s too cold then you just don’t get to drive an EV.

Not disputing this video. But come on. EV's can and do work in cold climates. Obviously the batteries take a hit. But don't buy into the clickbait hype.

This is no different than saying diesels won't work when it's cold. Obviously you can make a video on a use case where you do everything wrong, take no precautions, and your diesel won't start or has problems with fueling. The same is true for EVs.

It was -18F air temp here least night. I somehow managed to start my diesel JT and get to work. Two of my coworkers that drive Teslas managed to get in just fine too.

Point is, be informed.... but don't fear monger.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just paid $50k for my gladiator, my wifes model 3 can be bought for $45k. The range drops from 330 miles to 297 miles when its freezing outside. It practically drives itself at 80mph to the beach and does 0-60 in under 4 seconds. it has an 8 year 120k mile warranty.

Everything you said sounds like crotchety scared hermit talk.

We got a pretty well optioned Wrangler 4xe. I figure the tax credits will take it down to not much above what my JT's sticker would be if bought today.
We can drive it a lot on the battery - it's been single digits to teens and we still have been getting 18-20 miles on battery, then from there it's a hybrid similar to others (but still better/different)
So the fuel savings will add up over a couple of years making it even less difference.
People don't get the differences between EV, PHEV and plain hybrid.
My wife drove to her friends house and back the other day - it was cold. Her friend lives 13.5 miles away exactly. She made it there, and back except for the last 3 miles on electric. that's pushing a brick at speeds of 45-65 through cold dense air 24 miles on electric before the ICE started doing more. And from there since the electric was still doing some of the work, we figure that 26 mile trip may have taken her a fraction of a gallon of gas. Maybe 1/10 gallon?
So 26 miles on 0.10 gallons of gas.
If we keep it even just a few years, the price difference will be made up by less fuel used/bought, and it's a zippy, capable vehicle with a lot of snap. It's quiet, and smooth. I assume the good ride, smooth ride, and sure-footedness is due to the weight - and where that weight is - in the middle, down low.
All of the PHEV parts and batteries are 8 years or 100,000 miles.

I just did the math. A base Model 3 with the tax credit comes to $32k. Pretty cool.

p.s. If energy policy was being made by people who understood science and engineering rather than politics, we'd be making power with Nuclear and HydroElectric.

In Iowa it's mostly wind and nuke. There's not much chance of water power here. In some states they could use the ocean for power like some countries are starting to do. Korea has a ton of off-shore power generation (which includes wind)
New designs in wind power will see those big blades eventually being replaced. Some of the stuff you can get for home now is crazy efficient with very low wind speed.

I've thought about solar panels for the garage to charge her Jeep - tax credits apply to that, too.

Been chatting with the guys in another forum and Jeep has this 4xe thing really figured out - how the batteries are controlled, heated, cooled and more. In fact, Kia warns people to not use this or that charger, limit this or that, never charge to 100% and so on - that's all managed by the 4xe. Just plug it in and leave it alone. It manages stuff itself no matter what charger you use (as long as it's compatible as far as the end and type which most are)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not disputing this video. But come on. EV's can and do work in cold climates. Obviously the batteries take a hit. But don't buy into the clickbait hype.

This is no different than saying diesels won't work when it's cold. Obviously you can make a video on a use case where you do everything wrong, take no precautions, and your diesel won't start or has problems with fueling. The same is true for EVs.

It was -18F air temp here least night. I somehow managed to start my diesel JT and get to work. Two of my coworkers that drive Teslas managed to get in just fine too.

Point is, be informed.... but don't fear monger.

Before buying my wife's '23 JLU 4xe, I talked with 3 fellow Iowans and all said "no problem". They have each had theirs for over a year, one owned I believe 2021 which has had some major software updates, but he's had no problems - other than typical JEEP stuff that could have happened to my Gladiator.
I posted her Jeep on FB and started out with: My son has been a bad influence on me".
We did a lot of talking after he bought his EV SUV, and I chatted a lot with 4xe owners and did all the research I could - it's like anything else, forums and the internet make things look worse than what's really happening in the general world.

 

[dajudge]

Obviously you guys don't know who Out of Spec is. He is a complete EV fanboy. He is just gives honest reports on his experiences.

 

[briscoelab]

I'm not sure that's what is obvious here .

 

[Brutusx00]

Obviously you guys don't know who Out of Spec is. He is a complete EV fanboy. He is just gives honest reports on his experiences.

It sounds like he’s one of those cases where you shouldn’t be driving an EV. If you live somewhere and it’s 20° below zero, and that EV doesn’t work at that temperature then maybe that wasn’t the right car for him.

The temperature where I live never goes below 10° and never goes above 95° so we’ve had a great experience. The worst range we’ve got was 280 miles out of 330. That was right around 32degrees. Not that that really mattered because work is a 40 mile round-trip and we plug into our garage 120 V outlet.

I will give you one negative thing about EV’s. If we didn’t have an outlet in our garage, or for some reason, didn’t have the ability to charge at home I would not own an EV. If you live in an apartment and can’t charge at home. I wouldn’t buy an EV.

We can charge on the 120 V outlet and get 100 miles of range a day or we can charge on our 240 V outlet and completely recharge overnight. I would never stop weekly at a charging station that’s just not convenient for me.

We took the car on a vacation from Delaware to the finger lakes NY, and stopped to get coffee at a rest stop and recharged in under a half hour. So it’s really not that big of a deal. But charging at home is a life changer. Even if you only have a standard 120v outlet

 

[Roklimo]

$4000 is nice, but hardly a reason to buy an EV. If I were to want to buy one, I would certainly take advantage of the tax credit.

 

[smlobx]

By the time you are 40, all current holes we are digging in will be depleted of the ore needed for the batteries. Unless, more holes are dug ( strip mining) EV's will fade away. We were supposed to be out of petroleum by now too. But here we are.

Yeah I heard that prognostication when I was in college in the 70’s (anyone remember Jimmy Carter and his National 55 mph speed limit?). I’m all in favor of minimizing our negative effects on the planet but we don’t hold all the keys to the kingdom so to speak.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

(anyone remember Jimmy Carter and his National 55 mph speed limit?)

That was the cartel embargo. It wasn't "lack of oil, period" it was lack of being able to buy any. There was a shortage here, not on the planet. That's what the 55 was about. Not "we're running out of oil!"

You also have the wrong president. It was Nixon. Congress passed it, Nixon signed it.

 

[dcmdon]

I will give you one negative thing about EV’s. If we didn’t have an outlet in our garage, or for some reason, didn’t have the ability to charge at home I would not own an EV. If you live in an apartment and can’t charge at home. I wouldn’t buy an EV.

This is the current state of affairs. The non-tesla charging network is a nightmare. You can't count on it to not be broken and even if it's running it rarely gives you the speed advertised.

I know two people who have teslas. One is a perfect use case. The other is a nightmare.

One lives in a Boston suburb and has a garage in the home he owns. he has 2 teslas and every other day plugs them in to top them off. His Teslas are more convenient than regular cars because he never has to go to a gas station.

He has a vacation home in Europe, where his wife is from and never takes driving trips. The Tesla , or any electric is pretty much perfect for him.

Another person I know, a friend's college professor brother is one of those smart guys who does dumb things. For political reasons (pre musk shift to the right) he bought a Tesla despite the fact that he lives in a rental in Brooklyn NY. He has no access to charging other than the public chargers.

He tried to go visit his parents in CT, a 120 mile drive and decided to charge at one of the super chargers on I95. He got there and there was a line of 30 cars waiting to charge on this Friday holiday weekend evening.

But he was better off than the non-tesla people. All the non-tesla chargers were broken.
After waiting an hour his wife and kids were pissed and he got the minimum amount of electricity. He arrived in CT with 15 miles of range remaining.

He plugged the car into a 120 v outlet and when they were ready to leave the next day, the car had picked up about 30 miles of range. So he had to leave his family and go find a charger before thy could begin their trip back to NY. He did find one in a Whole Foods lot but it was only a level two charger and he ended up waiting for 2 hours while the car charged.
He's an idiot.

The charging infrastructure problem will solve itself eventually. There is profit to be made so our capitalist system will build out the infrastructure with no Government intervention. The joys of capitalism and "the invisible hand".

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/invisiblehand.asp

 

[Stan H]

Who is gonna pay for all that . Who is going to produce all that extra electric ?

 

[briscoelab]

These types of cases really show the current advantages of phev.

My wife and I both work at the same institution, but usually drive separate because of schedules and kiddo logistics. It’s 5 miles from our house. Every parking ramp or garage we have access to has l2 or l3 charging for free. (If you can get one of the slots… 4hrs max)

We could plug-in at home too.
But, we take really long trips, multiple times a year in our gladiators or wrangler. Do camping off grid on public lands, etc.

If I’m town only, a pure ev would be great for us (even living in the icebox that is MN). But a phev would be great given our use case. 95% of the time, we’d never use gas.
Ymmv

 

[Brutusx00]

Who is gonna pay for all that . Who is going to produce all that extra electric ?

The same people that pay for the roads and sewers and water and schools and bridges and wars and satellites and highways and subways and fiber optic cables and Medicade and Medicare and farm subsidies and blah blah blah blah.

Our power bill went up $50 per month when we got a model 3. Then our power bill went down $150 when we got solar panels.

So every home that gets solar clears room on the grid for 3 more Evs. I know that’s very general napkin math but every home should have solar anyway (if it’s efficiency score warrants). Ours will pay for itself in 5 years then we’re in profit.

I didn’t join this forum to talk about evs. I’m trying to decide between 35s or 37s and bronze vs black rims for my new gladiator!

Mods please nuke this thread it almost political!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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