Awning bolts

[chorky]

Ok everyone here's one for ya.

Pretty sure I know the solution already but asking here just in case someone can save me a 3 hour trip and half a tank of gas for a literal handful of items.

I have a XTR-71 awning from Ironman4x4. I like the awning. Except it only comes with 4 bolts/nuts to secure to 2 points of contact. Because I am mounting directly to my tent via a tent supplied bracket, I will have 4 points of contact. Which means I need 2 more sets of bolts - so a total of 4 bolts, 4 nuts, and 4 washers - in addition to the set supplied from the tent manufacturer.

In this picture, the middle bolt is the bolt in question. The middle bolt/nut/washer is what came with the awning. I need 4 more of these.

So, I did what any normal person would do and hit up my local hardware store - but it has a very few select options in stainless to choose from. This is where the bolt on the left and right came from. But, neither of them work.

The bolt on the left is the correct head size diameter (I think 14mm). However, as you can see the head is thicker. Thicker enough that it wont fit into the extrusion slot of the awning aluminum bar. So that's not helpful. It also had a thicker thread diameter so I dont know that it would fit into my mounting bracket holes without modification anyway - not that it even matters at this point.

In this picture is the bolt on the right. The head thickness is correct, the thread pitch and diameter is also the same as what came with the kit. However, it is not stainless. But even worse is the head size is not the same diameter - I think this is a 12 maybe 13mm head instead. The problem here is although it does fit into the extrusion, it is too small to realistically tighten the nut onto the bolt. I know this by experience. The awning I removed (same awning just different side - I am gifting it to my dad) I ended up having to saw off a couple bolts because I used this smaller head size, and they ended up just spinning in the extrusion, so I could not loosen and remove the nut from the bolt.

I just got off the phone with Ironman a little bit ago and they said they have NO way to procure for me only a set of bolts. Said their only option would be to send me an entire awning kit - just for a set of bolts. That is INSANE. Being quite angry about it I told them they need to fix that situation right away. And if I can't find the right bolts - I will be calling them back to essentially get a free awning. Kinda ridiculous IMO that a guy can't get a set of bolts from the company that sells the main product, or even the specifications of the bolts they use. Do they even engineer their own products? Now I know not to buy from them again, since they probably wouldn't be able to support their own product if a future failure occurs. At least I got this new awning for almost 50% off.... Rant over....

So - if you reference the first photo again, notice the bolt head says something like A2-70. A google search reveals this just means 304 stainless. But also presented me with an amazon link - https://www.amazon.com/Screw-Stainl...408831&sprefix=bolt+a2-70,aps,269&sr=8-9&th=1

So in theory, I should be able to match this up with something. Only problem is my dial calipers are not in this state so I can't accurately measure the bolt.

Leading to my question for everyone here - if I verify that it is a 14mm head, and get a guesstimate from a tape measure of the diameter of the shaft/threads - is anyone here able to cross reference that with some sheet somewhere that will spit out what M series nut this is so I can just order from Amazon?

My other option is to take a 3 hour trip to town and hope that the Ace over there has what I need. It would suck if I wasted 3 hours though.

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[smlobx]

This sounds like a question for @ShadowsPapa ….

 

[fourfa]

OK, for former mechanical engineers like myself this is a pretty easy problem to solve, but it’s understandably frustrating for everyone else

Every Lowe’s and Home Depot and Ace Hardware in the world have thread gauges hanging around their hardware department. You just need to take the correct bolt there, and thread it into various holes til you find the one that fits. I’m betting imperial hardware (not metric), and a 14mm and 9/16 wrench are awfully close - 9/16” heads come on 3/8-16 and 3/8-24 bolts which are common as dirt.

My guess is a thin-head 3/8-16 hex head bolt. Go to McMaster-Carr and you can find various head thicknesses, and work out the vocabulary to define these bolts. Then if you can’t find it at a big box or hardware store, you can find a local industrial hardware shop that can. Failing that, order the most specific thing in the world at McMaster.

 

[fourfa]

Or order your own pitch and thread gauges from wherever (Amazon etc) and make someone else do the 3-hour round trip drive for that part first. Doesn’t sound like this can’t wait a few days to figure out the exact right part

 

[chorky]

OK, for former mechanical engineers like myself this is a pretty easy problem to solve, but it’s understandably frustrating for everyone else

Every Lowe’s and Home Depot and Ace Hardware in the world have thread gauges hanging around their hardware department. You just need to take the correct bolt there, and thread it into various holes til you find the one that fits. I’m betting imperial hardware (not metric), and a 14mm and 9/16 wrench are awfully close - 9/16” heads come on 3/8-16 and 3/8-24 bolts which are common as dirt.

My guess is a thin-head 3/8-16 hex head bolt. Go to McMaster-Carr and you can find various head thicknesses, and work out the vocabulary to define these bolts. Then if you can’t find it at a big box or hardware store, you can find a local industrial hardware shop that can. Failing that, order the most specific thing in the world at McMaster.

The real frustrating part for me is that the company that makes these awnings has no way of getting ahold of the specific bolt/nut they use. I think that is huge oversight and really bad business planning. Anyway....There is only one store I know of in town that might have what I'm looking for. There probably is some industrial fastener store in town somewhere so I'll have to explore that. The thread pitch really doesn't matter since I can just get a bolt to match as long as the shaft thickness isn't too large for the bracket. I did just check with a wrench. 14mm fits ever so slightly more snug than the 9/16. But....it's really the head thickness that is the bigger issue - and without my calipers I can't measure it. I was hoping the stamped A2-70 would have given a better indication of what bolt it is, especially since the other stainless bolt I got yesterday has different stamping. However, even amazon doesn't list the bolt head thickness I dont think. So maybe any A2-70 stamped bolt would work? And I am not sure what 14mm translates into in terms of M5 or M8, etc.....

Or order your own pitch and thread gauges from wherever (Amazon etc) and make someone else do the 3-hour round trip drive for that part first. Doesn’t sound like this can’t wait a few days to figure out the exact right part

Yeah it's definitely not a time sensitive thing. But the issue I always seem to have is I cant' get actual detailed specifications from manufacturers, and the 3 hour round trip only offers a 50% chance that I can find what I need - its not like living in a major metropolitan concrete jungle with every option at your fingertips. Small town here - most things I have no choice but to order from Amazon. Stores here just don't carry much inventory and can't (or wont) order a handful of items - I have tried. At least it's not anything that has to happen quickly. Winter is just starting.

 

[Jcsii]

I suspect Ironman is like the rest of the suppliers and just passes through their product so not surprised they don't have parts.

I went with the ARB T bolts. Not a fan of hex heads in a slot application. I am not sure if ironman has the same slot as ARB. The ARB T bolt kit was pretty reasonable.

 

[chorky]

I suspect Ironman is like the rest of the suppliers and just passes through their product so not surprised they don't have parts.

I went with the ARB T bolts. Not a fan of hex heads in a slot application. I am not sure if ironman has the same slot as ARB. The ARB T bolt kit was pretty reasonable.

Yeah no doubt you are correct. I recall when 4x4Colorado came out with their Nimbus tent that I have - then a year later 3 or 4 other brand new companies pushed out the exact same design and spec but charged 1K to 1500 more, just for a name. Probably the same situation there as well. All china made stuff, and nobody knows any details on the products they sell.... They probably don't even design any of it - I bet it's all picked or ordered from a catalogue. When I asked a couple tent manufacturers the specifics of how their honeycomb aluminum panels are made, in order to determine how to drill through them to mount to my canopy - nobody, literally nobody out of like 3 or 4 different companies could even remotely explain what honeycomb aluminum is - not like its even that hard to google it and figure it out, but the fact most companies dont even know what they sell is just pathetic IMO. Reminds me of all those post apocalyptic movies where there is all this crazy advanced technology but it is all falling apart and being pieced together because nobody knows how any of it works since nobody in the present time designed any of it - kinda like what you see in the matrix movie.

Not sure about the slot size. I dont have a way to accurately measure the head of the bolts I do have. Measuring thread pitch wont really help because I have already found out from my local store that it can be the same thread pitch but the bolt head is totally different....

I'm really considering telling them they just need to send me another awning for free considering they dont even have a way to get a hardware kit... that's just ridiculous.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A2-70 is a stainless metric bolt.
I'd say a cheap Chinese bolt based on the looks of the thread.
They almost look like ACME threads (no coyote jokes?)

Pretty bad quality. Not sure you'd get a good proper nut to go onto those threads.

I'd replace all of the original bolts as well. If they are the quality I suspect, I'd opt for all new.
Don't sweat the thread pitch if you are using nuts and washers and not threading into anything else.
Find something that fits the hole snugly - anything you can make fit and take it with you to match diameter, and buy all new.

 

[chorky]

al bolts as well. If they are the quality I suspect, I'd opt for all new.
Don't sweat the thread pitch if you are using nuts and washers and not threading into anything else.
Find something that fits the hole snugly - anything you can make

Finding something that will fit is the current issue. I can't seem to find any with the appropriate head size - 14mm and however thick it is, I'll try to measure tomorrow and take one with me to town next week to see what is available. They may be Chinese stainless, but I have similar looking bolts elsewhere on the jeep and they have held up well - although everything is a low stress holding need. I really dont care at all what thread pitch it is, or standard vs metric - the only thing that matters to me with this is the head size and fitting into the slot.

 

[Gatorized]

Finding something that will fit is the current issue. I can't seem to find any with the appropriate head size - 14mm and however thick it is, I'll try to measure tomorrow and take one with me to town next week to see what is available. They may be Chinese stainless, but I have similar looking bolts elsewhere on the jeep and they have held up well - although everything is a low stress holding need. I really dont care at all what thread pitch it is, or standard vs metric - the only thing that matters to me with this is the head size and fitting into the slot.

You don’t need to put a wrench on it , so any bolt that fits the hole is good. Just grind the head for correct fit - thickness and width To match the slot.

 

[chorky]

You don’t need to put a wrench on it , so any bolt that fits the hole is good. Just grind the head for correct fit - thickness and width To match the slot.

I don't have grinding or sanding or customizing a bolt head abilities - no tools for that, and no vice or work bench either.

 

[Freems]

www.rackattack.com
tell them what you have and what you need for hardware, they carry it all for all brands. They usually ship out a couple of days.

 

[chorky]

www.rackattack.com
tell them what you have and what you need for hardware, they carry it all for all brands. They usually ship out a couple of days.

Problem is I dont have a good way to accurately measure the thickness of the bolt head. I can use a tape measure - but I dont know if that will be accurate enough for them?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Problem is I dont have a good way to accurately measure the thickness of the bolt head. I can use a tape measure - but I dont know if that will be accurate enough for them?

I assume from all of this, the population of Montana has dropped to 1? And you are it?

Man, if you had a lathe..............

I bet I have bolts in my bolt cans and jars that would work, and could easily cut down the heat thickness to anything you needed.
Pretty much any bolt will have a head to thick unless you get into online specialty, or perhaps Fastenal or some similar business.
If you had a place like Woodsmith Store nearby, you can' find all sorts of bolts that fit into tracks because we make fences and other attachments for drill press tables, router tables, table saws and such and track bolts are a big thing.

 

[chorky]

I assume from all of this, the population of Montana has dropped to 1? And you are it?

Man, if you had a lathe..............

I bet I have bolts in my bolt cans and jars that would work, and could easily cut down the heat thickness to anything you needed.
Pretty much any bolt will have a head to thick unless you get into online specialty, or perhaps Fastenal or some similar business.
If you had a place like Woodsmith Store nearby, you can' find all sorts of bolts that fit into tracks because we make fences and other attachments for drill press tables, router tables, table saws and such and track bolts are a big thing.

HAHAH. yeah man you would think wouldn't you. It is unimaginably difficult to get anything done in my little town. And it's right on I90 too! We even have a very reputable auto shop in town that does ALL of our government vehicle work, except warranty things, and they just told me a couple weeks ago they wont entertain doing a clutch and flywheel replacement on my TJ. I swear, if there was ever a nation wide catastrophe, this town would go belly up real fast. It's truly a strange situation especially considering how many people are down to earth and do a lot of things themselves. But the issue with going to town is it's basically a half of a day - and that is if I know exactly where I am going and what I'm getting to be optimum on time use. In the winter with bad weather it can easily be a full 10 hour day.

I would love to have a lathe and a full work shop. Man I bet I could make a killing in this town with everyone else not really wanting to work and all.... I just can't understand it, it's really weird. I will probably call a few places this week or next to see if they have anything matching what I can measure and describe. I just would be really irritated to spend half a day and half a tank of gas to not find the right bolts. If I didnt' need stainless steel I could get some here at the little hardware store, but with all the salt and crap they put on the roads here I really dont want to use just standard un-coated steel bolts.

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