Bent Frames - Big Thing or isolated?

[DanW]

I said I didn't have permission. I didn't say they wouldn't give it. (back to that point about people having other things to do than satisfy you)

Just curious...why would you need permission?

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[PuddleJumper]

What I find interesting is the talk of "jumps" - has Jeep ever really marketed these as Dukes of Hazard type jumping vehicles?
Isn't jumping a bit beyond what they were marketed for? I've not seen anything on TV with a Jeep actually taking what I call any sort of jump.

Jeep loaned out quite a few Mojave"s to many a YouTube channel. AND they had no complaints or restrictions about them jumpin them. here's an example. One of many videos that convinced me to buy one.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Aight, so after reading all the way through this. I think i got one thing to add that doesn't seem to be mention. QC. I think there will definitely be and has been cases that attribute to how it was driven/ setup. Improper suspension components from aftermarket that prevented things from doing their job along with excessive abuse. And the abuse would indeed have to be excessive as myself and many others make it a personal challenge to go boldly where no gladiator has gone before. Living from max droop to bumpstop at MACH Jesus, one trail at a time. Then towing near max 3-4 times a month. And somehow never having an issue. So what do we do about the stock truck seemingly well under capacity and on road having these issues. Simple and just the same as Toyota, Nissan, Ford and everyone else. Poor QC and/or poor manufacturing practices. If i recall correctly Jeep has put out a recall for faulty frames before on the gladiator. And its not new to the industry. And thats what i would mark down these these "stock and unabused" outliers. A bad batch of steel. Other than that you gotta be seriously tweaking something to get the rear to buckle. Most of the issues i run into my life 1-8% is a manufacturer defect, the rest is user error/negligence.

 

[Dakarra]

Just curious...why would you need permission?

I'm not sure I "need" permission, but this thread has become very acrimonious and I choose to let them weigh in, or not, as is their personal choice. I have learned the hard way that there are enough self-appointed arbiters of technical truth on this forum (who haven't disclosed their own credentials, by the way) and a small business owner has better things to do than get in a debate here.

My final post: I will paraphrase Jerry from Shift Autowerx, in his video with TrailRecon: Jeep's bracket fix to the Mojave is Jeep's way of addressing a problem without really saying they have a problem. Special emphasis that HE said that, not me. So, to all those folks who can quote tech specs and discuss the relevant effects of metallurgy, etc, I close with this; I don't know if there is a more-qualified shop/individual than Jerry and Shift Autowerx. He is a Jeep master-certified technician and his work is well-respected throughout the community. So, instead of shooting the messenger, ask him to clarify his statement.

 

[DanW]

I did check with my friend who is a service advisor at my Jeep dealer. They have not seen a bent or cracked frame.

it would be interesting to see a geographical map of where most of these are happening and see if it is linked to a particular type of off-roading. I'd also love to see Jeep's data on it, but they'd never share that unless forced.

What I would always recommend is that anyone who experiences this or any issue of this nature or other serious nature, to make a report to the NHSTA. Those are what lead to recalls and corrections at no cost to owners, if necessary. It is also how the rest of us can see actual data on a potential issue. (I have not had a chance to look this up, btw.)

 

[MPMB]

While I believe a lot of these bent frames happened after drivers exceeded normal driving situations, it did make me take pause towing our little Hiker the other day. The road was 50mph and absolutely destroyed with frost heave and soil shifting. There were a couple of dips/rollers that could have been disastrous if I ignored the tarmac. I slowed down just to avoid the horrible ride.

Anyone who's driven through Blanding, UT probably knows the road I'm talking about.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I did check with my friend who is a service advisor at my Jeep dealer. They have not seen a bent or cracked frame.

it would be interesting to see a geographical map of where most of these are happening and see if it is linked to a particular type of off-roading. I'd also love to see Jeep's data on it, but they'd never share that unless forced.

I have questions after sitting and thinking and reviewing the video yet again - and again.......

The video shows the "buckle/crack" at the bump stop location.
What might that imply, for those who are smart, clever and good at recognizing patterns and solving puzzles?
Why would something bend or break at a bump stop location?

The reinforcement by Jeep was on what model - Mojave. Why not the max tow?

This makes no sense to me -
>> in his video with TrailRecon: Jeep's bracket fix to the Mojave is Jeep's way of addressing a problem without really saying they have a problem. <<
They did it only to Mojave - and at the bump stop location. So if it's their way of addressing a problem - if that problem exists with the whole JT platform and is about towing or would impact towing, why not the max tow? And why at a bump stop.

Does anyone even see what I'm asking and why?

OR is that bump stop bracket taking care of the weak spot at the springs, too, on the inside of the frame box?
And again - why not max tow that has a much higher towing rating than any Mojave (which is limited to 6,000, correct?

I'm asking here for some thinking outside of the preconceived notions - deeper thought.
It's real questions not aimed or directed at anyone, nothing more or less.

To boil the questions down -
* is that bracket they show in the video - the one mentioned as
>> Jeep's bracket fix to the Mojave is Jeep's way of addressing a problem without really saying they have a problem<<
ONLY on Mojave - not on Sport, Not on Rubicon, not on max tow?

And if it's a problem connected with towing, why would it be at the bump stop only on Mojave and not max tow if the answer to the above is "no, it's only on Mojave",
since Mojave has the lowest towing capability of all Gladiators?

Trying to figure out why Jeep would put that bracket in place only on the lowest tow rating Gladiator, and why it's not on others (if indeed it's not on the other levels) if it's Jeep saying they had a problem. If it's a problem, isn't it a problem for all Gladiators?

 

[DanW]

I have questions after sitting and thinking and reviewing the video yet again - and again.......

The video shows the "buckle/crack" at the bump stop location.
What might that imply, for those who are smart, clever and good at recognizing patterns and solving puzzles?
Why would something bend or break at a bump stop location?

The reinforcement by Jeep was on what model - Mojave. Why not the max tow?

This makes no sense to me -
>> in his video with TrailRecon: Jeep's bracket fix to the Mojave is Jeep's way of addressing a problem without really saying they have a problem. <<
They did it only to Mojave - and at the bump stop location. So if it's their way of addressing a problem - if that problem exists with the whole JT platform and is about towing or would impact towing, why not the max tow? And why at a bump stop.

Does anyone even see what I'm asking and why?

OR is that bump stop bracket taking care of the weak spot at the springs, too, on the inside of the frame box?
And again - why not max tow that has a much higher towing rating than any Mojave (which is limited to 6,000, correct?

I'm asking here for some thinking outside of the preconceived notions - deeper thought.
It's real questions not aimed or directed at anyone, nothing more or less.

To boil the questions down - is that bracket they show in the video - the one mentioned as
>> Jeep's bracket fix to the Mojave is Jeep's way of addressing a problem without really saying they have a problem<< ONLY on Mojave - not on Sport, Not on Rubicon, not on max tow?
And if it's a problem connected with towing, why would it be at the bump stop only on Mojave and not max tow if the answer to the above is "nope, it's only on Mojave", since Mojave has the lowest towing capability of all Gladiators.

Trying to figure out why Jeep would put that bracket in place only on the lowest tow rating vehicle, and why it's not on others if it's Jeep saying they had a problem.

And why would a high Gladiator volume dealership say they have not seen any of them with a bent or cracked frame? I go back to the location of the shop in the video. Just west of Glamis and near other places that are the kind of wide open spaces for which the Mojave was designed. We just don't have many places near here where you'd see jumps or high speed off-roading. We don't have the wide open spaces.

 

[bleda2002]

My 2021 (09/20 build) Rubicon has the same plate he showed on the bump stop cup, doesn't seem to be a Mojave specific thing at all. I also know there are at least 2 different versions of gladiator frames, one with some small indents up by the shock mounts and ones that don't have those.

 

[Banned]

This is a bit long but please hear me out:
When I first bought my JT Willys with the Tow Package (not MAX tow) in 2021 I stumbled over a photo of a JT with a BAD frame bend, and there was debate on whether that was a case of driver abuse or design flaw. I more or less came down on the "driver abuse" side, and carried on. I regularly tow between 2,500-3,500 pounds but have NEVER exceeded weight limits either of the rated tow capacity of my JT or the combined GVWR of both Jeep and trailer. I also installed air bags to help with squat, and I have also never taken my trailer on any trails other than a plain dirt road that you could drive any sedan on. In short, both Jeep and trailer have been pavement driven almost exclusively - but a lot of highway miles.

So last weekend when I was getting my weekly fix of overlanding videos I watched the TrailRecon installment titled "Investigating 20 broken Jeeps" ( Investigating 20 Broken Jeeps (youtube.com) ). I won't risk mis-quoting what was said in the video, but the shop-owner's candid discussion of the bent-frame issue scared me. So I started digging around and this bent-frame issue seems to be "a thing". I suggest you watch the video in the link to see why and where the bend is occurring. Jeep has developed a reinforcement bracket, but it is only installed on some models. Several shops that I called (including the shop in the link) stated that they are seeing enough JTs that have this problem that they have developed a bridge or truss to reinforce the frame. However, it seems that a repair of this type should be done as a "preventative" because once you have a bent frame you have a very expensive repair on your hands - some would argue that the vehicle will never be quite right again.

So, in short, I personally believe that there are way more bent frames in JT world than anyone might think, and it is not isolated to "dune hoppers" and other rough driving situations. If you are towing with your JT you should have it checked at a qualified shop. Oh, and back to my own JT - I took it to a very well-respected off-road shop in the DFW area. The owner stated that he had three JTs in the shop at that moment for bent frames. Mine made Four.

If it's not a Mojave with the "reinforced frame", it's going to bend, guaranteed. Just ask the guys who bought Mojaves.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My 2021 (09/20 build) Rubicon has the same plate he showed on the bump stop cup, doesn't seem to be a Mojave specific thing at all. I also know there are at least 2 different versions of gladiator frames, one with some small indents up by the shock mounts and ones that don't have those.

I had to go take a look............. so that answers my question with yours - even mine, having that bracket.
So 9/2020 build Rubicon and 6/2022 build Overland have that.
Then it would seem all have that piece since the 21 model year - most likely.
That answers that question.
However, I see it mainly as a reinforcement for the bump stop.
I'm not seeing how it would impact towing unless you came down against the bump stop.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet it's to prevent the bump stop bracket from bending (second pic)

Without that plate, a hard enough hit will buckle that bump stop bracket like this -

So, I submit it's for bumpstop bracket failure, not frame issues. The bumpstop bracket itself is wimpy as hell. That plate in there prevents it from being shoved up when you land real hard.

 

[PuddleJumper]

I have questions after sitting and thinking and reviewing the video yet again - and again.......

The video shows the "buckle/crack" at the bump stop location.
What might that imply, for those who are smart, clever and good at recognizing patterns and solving puzzles?
Why would something bend or break at a bump stop location?

The reinforcement by Jeep was on what model - Mojave. Why not the max tow?

This makes no sense to me -
>> in his video with TrailRecon: Jeep's bracket fix to the Mojave is Jeep's way of addressing a problem without really saying they have a problem. <<
They did it only to Mojave - and at the bump stop location. So if it's their way of addressing a problem - if that problem exists with the whole JT platform and is about towing or would impact towing, why not the max tow? And why at a bump stop.

Does anyone even see what I'm asking and why?

OR is that bump stop bracket taking care of the weak spot at the springs, too, on the inside of the frame box?
And again - why not max tow that has a much higher towing rating than any Mojave (which is limited to 6,000, correct?

I'm asking here for some thinking outside of the preconceived notions - deeper thought.
It's real questions not aimed or directed at anyone, nothing more or less.

To boil the questions down -
* is that bracket they show in the video - the one mentioned as
>> Jeep's bracket fix to the Mojave is Jeep's way of addressing a problem without really saying they have a problem<<
ONLY on Mojave - not on Sport, Not on Rubicon, not on max tow?

And if it's a problem connected with towing, why would it be at the bump stop only on Mojave and not max tow if the answer to the above is "no, it's only on Mojave",
since Mojave has the lowest towing capability of all Gladiators?

Trying to figure out why Jeep would put that bracket in place only on the lowest tow rating Gladiator, and why it's not on others (if indeed it's not on the other levels) if it's Jeep saying they had a problem. If it's a problem, isn't it a problem for all Gladiators?

Its not just the Mojave. Its the diesel too which may be because they share a frame. Maybe the rest didn't get that bracket because it isn't applicable to the gasser frame? And what your pointing may also mean something else. Did Jeep reduce the towing cap on the diesel and Mojave as well as add the bracket because of this issue? Cus the recall i remember is for buckling behind the cab. Not this new bump stop area issue. Maybe I remember wrong. But i have a sneaking suspicion this isn't a Gasser frame problem.

 

[piroman683]

I bent my bump stop frame when I hit a jump at high speed (70mph), and then installed the Fox IFP bump stops. This was when I only had the Mopar lift kit too. I was jumping my truck a few times and going faster each time. I did not bend or crack my frame though. So to @ShadowsPapa I 100% agree with you on the likely reason Jeep added that was for reinforcement. My JT is a 2020 (picked up 10/30/2019 though) Sport non-S (manual locks and windows)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I bent my bump stop frame when I hit a jump at high speed (70mph), and then installed the Fox IFP bump stops. This was when I only had the Mopar lift kit too. I was jumping my truck a few times and going faster each time. I did not bend or crack my frame though. So to @ShadowsPapa I 100% agree with you on the likely reason Jeep added that was for reinforcement. My JT is a 2020 (picked up 10/30/2019 though) Sport non-S (manual locks and windows)

That's exactly the sort of damage I was referring to - and the reason for that bracket. The 2020 version of that bump stop bracket is wimpy as heck. Hit hard and it's going to collapse.
I bet a hammer whack would bend it.
When I swapped springs on my 2020 I was amazed, thinking that my old cars have bump stop brackets 10 times stronger than that piece of strap steel welded to the frame.
The bracket added to the 2021 + is going to prevent that, but not really change frame strength, so I don't know what they were getting at in that video.

Anyway, yes, that's a real-world example of what I was getting at - reinforcement for the bump stop bracket. The shape and where it's welded in pretty much define what it does.
Yes, jeep realized they had a problem - with the bump stop bracket. They fixed it.

I was hoping someone would show such an example - not that I wish anyone have any damage! But it does prove I'm not totally crazy and every few years, see something...............

I wasn't going to come back in as I've been pissing people off. So had decided there's a lot of other stuff to do and people to help but saw this from a familiar name and figured I needed to see what it was - and say thanks.

 

[Rocksalt]

That's exactly the sort of damage I was referring to - and the reason for that bracket. The 2020 version of that bump stop bracket is wimpy as heck. Hit hard and it's going to collapse.
I bet a hammer whack would bend it.
When I swapped springs on my 2020 I was amazed, thinking that my old cars have bump stop brackets 10 times stronger than that piece of strap steel welded to the frame.
The bracket added to the 2021 + is going to prevent that, but not really change frame strength, so I don't know what they were getting at in that video.

Anyway, yes, that's a real-world example of what I was getting at - reinforcement for the bump stop bracket. The shape and where it's welded in pretty much define what it does.
Yes, jeep realized they had a problem - with the bump stop bracket. They fixed it.

I was hoping someone would show such an example - not that I wish anyone have any damage! But it does prove I'm not totally crazy and every few years, see something...............

I wasn't going to come back in as I've been pissing people off. So had decided there's a lot of other stuff to do and people to help but saw this from a familiar name and figured I needed to see what it was - and say thanks.

so are you saying that those of us who own 2020 models are susceptible to bending our frames?

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