Bronco is fullsize - no comparison

[dcmdon]

I placed my order for a Gladiator on Thursday.

But before I did, on Wednesday I went and looked at and sat in another Bronco 4dr and another Gladiator.

Some thoughts: (some are new. Some are the same as before)

1) The interior of the Bronco really is NOT very big. Its smaller than my wife's Volvo wagon. This would be ok, since none of us are big people, but the cargo area is also small.

The kennel that I use to bring my dog anywhere fits in her Volvo and does not fit in a Bronco. This was new since I'd never measured with the kennel. (It also won't fit in a Wrangler)

It will fit easily in the Gladiator with a topper.

2) The interior of the Jeep is really a nicer place than the Bronco. Even the higher range Broncos still have a Tupperware feeling to all the surfaces. This is where the Fiat influence actually helps Jeep.

That's it. There isn't a Bronco outfitted like I did mine or a Jeep Mojave to drive within 100 miles anymore. So I didn't drive either. But stopping by the dealers kind of reinforced my decision.

Sponsored

 

[PDiddy]

OK, I went into the garage today and measured the bronco and gladiator widths. The Bronco is a Badlands with sasquatch. The Gladiator is a Rubicon with 35s on stock wheels, so original offset and backspacing. Keep in mind, the new Recon Jeeps, with 35s, will be wider than mine. Also, there are many folks out there running wheels that stick out past their Jeep fenders. I think in the wild, the difference will not be as much. The bigger issue is, it feels bigger driving it. I would not be as comfortable doing technical wheeling in our Bronco. But, in comparison to the Gladiator, the turning radius is amazing. I guess that is not a shocker.

Galdiator: 76"
Bronco: 79"

Last thing, Someone mentioned earlier how the Bronco was supposed to compete with the Wrangler and it failed. Maybe it doesn't compete with the Wrangler, but they can't build them fast enough and the same exact bronco as mine sold used (900 miles on it) for $73k. It is clearly a successful vehicle.

 

[Challenger85]

OK, I went into the garage today and measured the bronco and gladiator widths. The Bronco is a Badlands with sasquatch. The Gladiator is a Rubicon with 35s on stock wheels, so original offset and backspacing. Keep in mind, the new Recon Jeeps, with 35s, will be wider than mine. Also, there are many folks out there running wheels that stick out past their Jeep fenders. I think in the wild, the difference will not be as much. The bigger issue is, it feels bigger driving it. I would not be as comfortable doing technical wheeling in our Bronco. But, in comparison to the Gladiator, the turning radius is amazing. I guess that is not a shocker.

Galdiator: 76"
Bronco: 79"

Last thing, Someone mentioned earlier how the Bronco was supposed to compete with the Wrangler and it failed. Maybe it doesn't compete with the Wrangler, but they can't build them fast enough and the same exact bronco as mine sold used (900 miles on it) for $73k. It is clearly a successful vehicle.

It’s going to compete with the Wrangler whether people want to admit that or not, they’ll have to deal with it. It’s a top off convertible, 4X4 with great styling and better handling, it’s a direct competitor. The interior is much more polished on Jeep but Bronco will get there soon enough. I don’t know why some can’t be honest, Bronco will do 100% of the stuff that 98% of the Jeep community attempts. That other 2% is going extreme rock climbing and that’s a very niche part of Jeep buyers. Let’s not act like the 4 door Wrangler isn’t a soccer mom’s super car. In general btw not aimed at you lol.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What car is it?

I'll have to see if I have it in the browsing history of my phone. It came up on Chrome while I was waiting in the doctor's office...... and waiting....... and waiting....... so I clicked the link as it said "manual transmissions making a comeback" and I was like hey - gotta read this! No, they aren't, but honestly, some niche cars and other vehicles have them. I'll try to find that link, but in the meantime -
https://www.tesh.com/articles/stick-shift-cars-are-making-a-comeback/

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/campaign-save-manual-transmissions-gearing/story?id=72085780

Honda's Civic Type R, which debuted three years ago and is only available with a manual transmission, has the highest percentage of millennial buyers of any Honda vehicle, according to James Jenkins, a spokesperson for the Japanese marque.

(I get sick to death of the "millennial theft deterrent" and all of the millennials I know, including my SON, not only can drive a stick, but enjoys it. It's the LATER generation that has troubles, so please, folks, lay off the millennial jokes, they can and do drive sticks. Seems it's the parents that are out of touch with them)

 

[dcmdon]

OK, I went into the garage today and measured the bronco and gladiator widths. The Bronco is a Badlands with sasquatch. The Gladiator is a Rubicon with 35s on stock wheels, so original offset and backspacing. Keep in mind, the new Recon Jeeps, with 35s, will be wider than mine. Also, there are many folks out there running wheels that stick out past their Jeep fenders. I think in the wild, the difference will not be as much. The bigger issue is, it feels bigger driving it. I would not be as comfortable doing technical wheeling in our Bronco. But, in comparison to the Gladiator, the turning radius is amazing. I guess that is not a shocker.

Galdiator: 76"
Bronco: 79"

Last thing, Someone mentioned earlier how the Bronco was supposed to compete with the Wrangler and it failed. Maybe it doesn't compete with the Wrangler, but they can't build them fast enough and the same exact bronco as mine sold used (900 miles on it) for $73k. It is clearly a successful vehicle.

Great write up.

The Bronco absolutely competes with the Wrangler. And no it didn't fail.

Anyone who thinks differently is a simplistic stick axle fanatic.
They are for all intents and purposes the same vehicle.

Off road capable, mid sized, body on frame, mid powered, removable top, removable door SUVs.

Same purpose. Same target market.

For 1% of that market the Wrangler's stick axles provide superior articulation and it actually matters.
For 10% of the market, there are certain benefits to each vehicle that really matter.
For the other 90 ish percent, they are effectively the same vehicle and choices will be based on looks, engine choices, past experience with Jeep / Ford and availability.

 

[PDiddy]

Great write up.

The Bronco absolutely competes with the Wrangler. And no it didn't fail.

Anyone who thinks differently is a simplistic stick axle fanatic.
They are for all intents and purposes the same vehicle.

Off road capable, mid sized, body on frame, mid powered, removable top, removable door SUVs.

Same purpose. Same target market.

For 1% of that market the Wrangler's stick axles provide superior articulation and it actually matters.
For 10% of the market, there are certain benefits to each vehicle that really matter.
For the other 90 ish percent, they are effectively the same vehicle and choices will be based on looks, engine choices, past experience with Jeep / Ford and availability.

Well said.

I still like the Gladiator better than both.

 

[bleda2002]

Great write up.

The Bronco absolutely competes with the Wrangler. And no it didn't fail.

Anyone who thinks differently is a simplistic stick axle fanatic.
They are for all intents and purposes the same vehicle.

Off road capable, mid sized, body on frame, mid powered, removable top, removable door SUVs.

Same purpose. Same target market.

For 1% of that market the Wrangler's stick axles provide superior articulation and it actually matters.
For 10% of the market, there are certain benefits to each vehicle that really matter.
For the other 90 ish percent, they are effectively the same vehicle and choices will be based on looks, engine choices, past experience with Jeep / Ford and availability.

That's pretty much what I said too. For the vast majority of people it comes down to Ford or jeep and how does it look on 35/37s with a lift. It's success really hinges on does the design resonate as tough and capable or goofy to people.

Off road most of the argument is really about people who are sad hearing their baby is ugly. The Wrangler is the better technical/crawler and the bronco is the better high speed runner. The often cited KOH trucks is proof of what each platform excels at. The move to ifs was for the high speed portions and the hold outs for sfa are for the technical sections. Still Wrangler/bronco will do 90% of what the other will in each segment and that's good enough for probably 95% of buyers uses.

Edit: this assumes Ford did a decent job engineering the bronco. The jeep has the advantage of being multiple generations with decades of experience at this, the Ford can draw from the raptor but the raptor never really was made for crawling and the early failures of the chicken leg tie rods and racks are worrisome.

 

[Jefe1018]

That's pretty much what I said too. For the vast majority of people it comes down to Ford or jeep and how does it look on 35/37s with a lift. It's success really hinges on does the design resonate as tough and capable or goofy to people.

Off road most of the argument is really about people who are sad hearing their baby is ugly. The Wrangler is the better technical/crawler and the bronco is the better high speed runner. The often cited KOH trucks is proof of what each platform excels at. The move to ifs was for the high speed portions and the hold outs for sfa are for the technical sections. Still Wrangler/bronco will do 90% of what the other will in each segment and that's good enough for probably 95% of buyers uses.

Edit: this assumes Ford did a decent job engineering the bronco. The jeep has the advantage of being multiple generations with decades of experience at this, the Ford can draw from the raptor but the raptor never really was made for crawling and the early failures of the chicken leg tie rods and racks are worrisome.

I agree, but Broncos still suck.

 

[dcmdon]

Well said.

I still like the Gladiator better than both.

Thanks. Me too.

Edit: this assumes Ford did a decent job engineering the bronco. The jeep has the advantage of being multiple generations with decades of experience at this, the Ford can draw from the raptor but the raptor never really was made for crawling and the early failures of the chicken leg tie rods and racks are worrisome.

Ford will get it right eventually. In 3 years when supply has caught up with demand they will most likely revisit the Bronco pickup. By then Jeep will be well into design for the next generation Wrangler / Gladiator on the assumption that for the first time in 40 years they have actual competition.

Good for everyone.

 

[Jt-wrx]

Ford will get it right eventually. In 3 years when supply has caught up with demand they will most likely revisit the Bronco pickup. By then Jeep will be well into design for the next generation Wrangler / Gladiator on the assumption that for the first time in 40 years they have actual competition.

Good for everyone.

Completely agree. The assumption that for the first time in 40 years they may actually have competition will be only that though...just an assumption. Ford won't get it right then either, they will be trying to hit some market demographic with another fluffy pretender instead of actually focusing on the how to build a better Jeep. They will fail every single time because of that. Jeep just focuses on building a better Jeep so they will succeed every time.

I said it off the hop, they missed two hugely important things in trying to build a better Jeep. Size and Solid Front Axle. Without getting those two fundamentals correct you can't do it better. It's a good thing you can get a manual transmission or it would have been 3 huge fundamentals they screwed up on instead of just the 2. Discussing little things like how the mirrors are with the doors etc. is just off in the ditch talking about the weeds. You miss the big stuff and you failed....Ford missed two incredibly big things. Instant Fail, another fluffy pretender aimed at a fluffy market demographic haha.

Will it make money and people happy? Yes. Is it a better Jeep? No. Is it an equal Jeep. No.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Completely agree. The assumption that for the first time in 40 years they may actually have competition will be only that though...just an assumption. Ford won't get it right then either, they will be trying to hit some market demographic with another fluffy pretender instead of actually focusing on the how to build a better Jeep. They will fail every single time because of that. Jeep just focuses on building a better Jeep so they will succeed every time.

I said it off the hop, they missed two hugely important things in trying to build a better Jeep. Size and Solid Front Axle. Without getting those two fundamentals correct you can't do it better. It's a good thing you can get a manual transmission or it would have been 3 huge fundamentals they screwed up on instead of just the 2. Discussing little things like how the mirrors are with the doors etc. is just off in the ditch talking about the weeds. You miss the big stuff and you failed....Ford missed two incredibly big things. Instant Fail, another fluffy pretender aimed at a fluffy market demographic haha.

Ford probably didn't even do any market research. And they should've just asked you.

 

[Jt-wrx]

I agree, it's clear their goal wasn't to out Jeep Jeep...but rather money focused goal and trying to sneak into another market segment. There is zero passion there, easy to see 100% financial. Jeep sales will remain amazing, the reputation will keep growing, because Jeep is focused on outdoing the Jeep. I'm not wrong. If Ford really had a goal of building a better Jeep they would have done those two things differently. Reminds me of Ford vs Ferrari and the red folder that passed through all those hands before it got to Mr. Ford. By the time the lawyers and bean counters and marking guys are done with the plan...you get a fluffy pretender, too much weight, too many hands. Way to go FCA for doing Jeep the Jeep way, and we will put Jeep type drivers in Jeep type vehicles.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What's a manual transmission got to do with Bronco hitting a mark or not? It's not aimed at hardcore 'I have to have a manual or I won't buy it" people.
Look at what I've posted about manual transmission vehicles in general a day or two ago - really - 2% for some, more for others but still, they could live without any manual transmission vehicle buyers and still do well.
Sure I really do like manuals - for some things. For others, not so much. The world has changed and unless you move with it, you won't survive.
Manuals transmissions have their tiny niche (get over it, it's tiny), automatics shine at many other things. Big deal - one or the other doesn't make a man more manly or less manly, If the measure of being a real man or a "real Jeep person" is the transmission type - there's other psychological issues going on.
Vehicle makers see manual transmissions as a big negative on CAFE numbers, they know that few give a rip and those that do won't matter to them. It's not a "direct" competition, it's to shave off a few from there, a few from here and get their own base.
People who want Jeeps will buy 'em, people who shop around now have another choice.
I buy whatever best suites my needs, my wants and may tastes at any given time. That's why I've owned Chevy trucks, Ford trucks, Jeep trucks and was almost at the point of having a Ram truck.
I'd personally never own a Bronco - but not because of why many people decide.

 

[Jt-wrx]

When jeep stops putting manual transmissions in wranglers and gladiators they will no longer be jeeps. Lots of car guys are enthusiasts for driving. The market has plenty of options for all levels of engagement but if you eliminate the options that attract the pure true driver enthusiasts even if only a couple percent of the population then your product line is just vanilla wanna be and loses its credibility as those purists will migrate to whoever will offer these things and the vehicle reputation will follow. Win on Sunday sell on Monday sort of thing. Jeep understands this whole dynamic...ford doesn’t have a clue. If you’re going to take on jeep you need to outdo them at their own game. Building a bloated cartoon character version with more street happy guts won’t work. You don’t get in the game long owned by one by offering something close.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Only a niche group, about 10 percent, of Wrangler buyers still buy the manual transmission V6 Wrangler.

Sales of manual-transmission cars dropped to just 1.1 percent of all new-vehicle sales in the U.S in 2019.

The Sam’s 4×4 study showed that, since the 2007 introduction of the Wrangler JK, automatic transmissions are increasing in popularity for both off-roaders and city drivers. A review of the 2017 JKU Wranglers listed on Cars.com and Autotrader, showed whopping 81 percent with automatic transmissions.

“An automatic is great if you’ve stopped on a slick rock and need to get moving again,” Guffey says. “Our experience is an automatic also keeps better momentum through snow, sand, and mud.”

Personal preference and opinion - that's all it is. People can gripe or complain or claim one is necessary and they won't buy anything without all they want - it's still personal opinion and choice and not a fact. Jeep will survive with automatics in the future. Even off-road enthusiasts are finding advantages with automatics.
The number of "purists" is dwindling. Attrition. Jeep must keep up and move forward or die.
Many can point out the advantages of an automatic in many situations, but few can point out the advantages of a stick in many situations. The advantages are limited and are typically "this is what I WANT" rather than "it's better because (of these facts)
Want is what's driving manual transmissions, not a whopping list of advantages.
The old idea that an automatic is for wimps and women and manuals are what real men drive is dead except in a few minds.

Sponsored