Burning Oil on Statup

[webduelist]

So to make a long story short, when the engine starts up cold is has been letting out a cough of blue smoke on startup, this is getting more and more frequent, took it to the dealer they "couldn't replicate it" and now I have it on video doing it, sent it to the dealer and its been a week and they won't return my calls.

Anyone have any ideas what is causing this, and why they seem to be avoiding it? I have worked with this dealer on other stuff and they were easy to work with, now the same people seem to be hoping I just go away or something which leads me to believe they have seen this issue before and don't want to mess with it.

I have seen some other posts about this but no clear identification on what could be wrong with it, the JT is less than a year old and less than 10k miles.

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[NC_Overland]

You sure it’s blue smoke? A small puff of black smoke is common. I’ve had a lot of new or newer vehicles do it. You only see it with remote start.

 

[webduelist]

You sure it’s blue smoke? A small puff of black smoke is common. I’ve had a lot of new or newer vehicles do it. You only see it with remote start.

100% blue oil smoke unfortunately, there is 0 question that is burning oil.

 

[webduelist]

Sorry for the double post, just wanted to add a video clip

 

[dlmpsy]

Do you have to add oil between changes? Also, some auto's enrichen the fuel/air ratio to assist in starting...especially when cold.

 

[webduelist]

Do you have to add oil between changes? Also, some auto's enrichen the fuel/air ratio to assist in starting...especially when cold.

It only started doing this in March. The video above it was 85F - 87F degrees outside and had run around 4 - 5 hours prior. This seems to not be dependent on temperature or weather.

As far as adding oil, that is the big concern at the moment if its doing this at startup then who is to say it isn't doing it while running but mixed with far more exhaust gasses, and the Catalytic converter is hot at that point so its unlikely to smoke when hot even if its still burning oil.

And it consuming oil down to unsafe levels would only be the start as oil doesn't burn clean and leaves carbon build up which will eventually cause all kinds of issues most of which if bad enough = motor death.

 

[dlmpsy]

I see in your profile it's a '24, and it started in March. Since it is under warranty, I would take it to the dealer. If nothing else you can get it on record. I would keep an eye on the oil level and if the mileage decreases. It might be useful to the dealer to know about the the level and mpg. Nice looking Gladiator...I always liked that color.

 

[Hootbro]

It is not a perfect world where your priorities become theirs when dealing by phone or email. You may have to take the time and go in person and talk face to face with someone to respectfully convey your concerns and they are less likely to blow you off.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

As far as adding oil, that is the big concern at the moment if its doing this at startup then who is to say it isn't doing it while running but mixed with far more exhaust gasses, and the Catalytic converter is hot at that point so its unlikely to smoke when hot even if its still burning oil.

And it consuming oil down to unsafe levels would only be the start as oil doesn't burn clean and leaves carbon build up which will eventually cause all kinds of issues most of which if bad enough = motor death.

What you are describing and fears of the results of burning is what’s happening to those who have not installed an oil catch can that captures crankcase blowby oil vapour via the PCV valve that goes straight to the upper intake to burn, which in turn fouls up spark plugs, oxygen sensors and cats.

I used to burn 500 ml of crankcase oil via the PCV valve every 10k kms but then put a stop to that nonsense by installing an oil catch can. So you may have a couple reasons (maybe more) but the two reasons I think you see this puff of blue which may also support your fears that you’re burning as you drive is that you have blowby and that crankcase pressure is being let out the PCV valve and that air is oily and getting burned up if you’re not capturing it. A new PCV valve will not fix this.

The second reason for the puff of smoke is perhaps low compression in a cylinder and oil has crept past the rings. I’m only speculating here (that’s my disclaimer) because I am not a professional mechanic and though my explanation is very “simple”, others may provide a very technical and in-depth, proper mechanical explanation.

Do you have any idea how much oil consumed or burned is acceptable to FCA? Well, I can say with absolute certainty (in Canada) 1.5 litres of oil burned for every 1000 kms. So in a 10k km oil change, if I burned 15 litres of oil, FCA would NOT deem that broken. There’s other things FCA doesn’t deem broken and will not fix but I won’t get started on that.

 

[webduelist]

What you are describing and fears of the results of burning is what’s happening to those who have not installed an oil catch can that captures crankcase blowby oil vapour via the PCV valve that goes straight to the upper intake to burn, which in turn fouls up spark plugs, oxygen sensors and cats.

I used to burn 500 ml of crankcase oil via the PCV valve every 10k kms but then put a stop to that nonsense by installing an oil catch can. So you may have a couple reasons (maybe more) but the two reasons I think you see this puff of blue which may also support your fears that you’re burning as you drive is that you have blowby and that crankcase pressure is being let out the PCV valve and that air is oily and getting burned up if you’re not capturing it. A new PCV valve will not fix this.

The second reason for the puff of smoke is perhaps low compression in a cylinder and oil has crept past the rings. I’m only speculating here (that’s my disclaimer) because I am not a professional mechanic and though my explanation is very “simple”, others may provide a very technical and in-depth, proper mechanical explanation.

Do you have any idea how much oil consumed or burned is acceptable to FCA? Well, I can say with absolute certainty (in Canada) 1.5 litres of oil burned for every 1000 kms. So in a 10k km oil change, if I burned 15 litres of oil, FCA would NOT deem that broken. There’s other things FCA doesn’t deem broken and will not fix but I won’t get started on that.

I also considered Valve Guide Seal, I agree its a problem and some of these could be catastrophic failures, but my bigger issue is that they are ghosting me like they don't want to deal with it.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I also considered Valve Guide Seal, I agree its a problem and some of these could be catastrophic failures, but my bigger issue is that they are ghosting me like they don't want to deal with it.

Ya, valve guide seal might be causing that too. Somethings not seating right but if you’re not getting the service you should have, check another dealership. @ShadowsPapa may want to take a crack at this one.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

As far as adding oil, that is the big concern at the moment if its doing this at startup then who is to say it isn't doing it while running but mixed with far more exhaust gasses, and the Catalytic converter is hot at that point so its unlikely to smoke when hot even if its still burning oil.

And it consuming oil down to unsafe levels would only be the start as oil doesn't burn clean and leaves carbon build up which will eventually cause all kinds of issues most of which if bad enough = motor death.

Don't get all tangled up in what-ifs and speculations and the future.

The question was - do you have to add oil, or does the oil level drop enough you can tell it has dropped - as seen here -

Do you have to add oil between changes?

Yes or no?
OF course, I would ask it differently - because some change oil at far longer intervals while others more frequently - so my question would be - have you checked the oil to see what the level was, and if it was low, HOW low, and at how many miles since it was last at the "full mark"?

These are things you MUST track and document.
So in the mean-time, get the oil level to full, mark down the miles, then check it periodically and keep track of oil level and miles.
Check after it has SAT for at least an hour or so, and try to do it the same each time.
The more accurate and systematic you are, the better off you are in any fight.

Yes, valve guide seals can cause such a "puff of smoke when starting" - but it's rare these days. These aren't your old-school umbrella seals.
The problem is - it could be burning oil all along, but shows when first starting as the engine is colder, the cats are cold and the "blue puff" will be evident where after it's warmed up it won't be so evident.

Gotta run for a bit - my son is flying up from FL - will have more a bit later...........

It is not a perfect world where your priorities become theirs when dealing by phone or email. You may have to take the time and go in person and talk face to face with someone to respectfully convey your concerns and they are less likely to blow you off.

That's one of the very best responses.
I find FRIENDLY face-to-face works far better. I tried and tried dealing with our 4xe transmission leak via phone calls, emails, PMs to jeepcares in the forums and so on - going there, talking to the service manager, explaining what I knew, and asking please, can we work together on this - showing him by pointing to the exact areas, I got a lot better responses. In fact, when I got it back home after our chat, parked it, and took a picture of the drops already on the garage floor from being back less than 5 minutes - they sent a person out to pick it up and leave me a loaner!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I also considered Valve Guide Seal, I agree its a problem and some of these could be catastrophic failures, but my bigger issue is that they are ghosting me like they don't want to deal with it.

OK, back to more thinking (Things will be crazy here from Thursday to Sunday)

First - don't panic as if the engine is going to self-destruct in days. You can consume a lot of oil and not blow things up. Good? NO. But you can go a long ways before you run into more serious trouble unless there is something like a broken ring, that sort of thing (cylinder wall gouging, etc.)

Yes, your biggest issue is getting to get the dealer to pay attention, take it seriously and deal with it.

It may take some time, some videos, and some testing on your own with a helper to get more info or something solid to show them.
Oil consumption usually shows up best under high vacuum situations. Rev and letting up, or driving and downshifting to force higher RPM with no throttle, spiking the vacuum up drawing oil into the combustion chamber.

Valve seals and guide issues may show up on a first start as oil runs down valve guides to the heads of the valves. And again, because the engine is colder and the oil won't be burned as completely - producing the blue smoke.
These having short guides to minimize friction and positive type seals tend to reduce the possibility. It can happen, but not like the old-school stuff.

If it's a PCV issue, you'll see indications in the intake "plumbing" - at the throttle body or the tube between filter box and throttle body and so on.

Rings - you'll need to do a compression or leak-down test for that. Much more involved.

Oil consumption will also show up on the spark plugs.

 

[Sandman 4x4]

Ok everyone has told you this, but check the oil on every other startup in the morning before the first start. Then see how long it takes to add from the ADD OIL line. Then add enough to bring it up to full line. If less than 1,000 miles and you’re using full synthetic oil, you definitely have a problem. My 2024 with 10,000 miles uses NO oil between 5,000 mile changes.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If less than 1,000 miles and you’re using full synthetic oil, you definitely have a problem. My 2024 with 10,000 miles uses NO oil between 5,000 mile changes.

Why would synthetic matter?

None of our Jeeps with the 3.6 have needed oil added between changes. In fact, if there is a drop, it's pretty negligible.

Might drop 1/8" inch in 7,000 miles.

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