Burning Oil on Statup

[PBCounty]

Been wondering if mine is doing same. It sits in garage all week, only driven from Friday evenings to Sunday afternoons - and on that first Friday startup I get a decent puff of smoke for a second. Won't do it again for rest of weekend. It appears white or grey but I'm not sure. Doesn't appear to be losing oil, and just under 5k miles.

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[webduelist]

Been wondering if mine is doing same. It sits in garage all week, only driven from Friday evenings to Sunday afternoons - and on that first Friday startup I get a decent puff of smoke for a second. Won't do it again for rest of weekend. It appears white or grey but I'm not sure. Doesn't appear to be losing oil, and just under 5k miles.

Do you happen to know the manufacture date? I wonder if there is a batch of motors that might have a common issue.

 

[PBCounty]

Do you happen to know the manufacture date? I wonder if there is a batch of motors that might have a common issue.

December 2023 (and it's somehow still a 2023 - figured by December they would only be making 2024 models).

 

[Maximus Gladius]

December 2023 (and it's somehow still a 2023 - figured by December they would only be making 2024 models).

Mine was August 2020 sold as 2021

 

[webduelist]

December 2023 (and it's somehow still a 2023 - figured by December they would only be making 2024 models).

hmm mine was built in late march so less than 4 months apart.... need more data to draw any conclusions.

 

[Rusty PW]

Nobody has asked this question. How many miles are on the JT?

Your video. I can't really tell what color the smoke is. Next time you start it up. Have someone else start and have your nose next to the tail pipe to see if you can smell the oil , or what ever is coming out.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Nobody has asked this question. How many miles are on the JT?

Your video. I can't really tell what color the smoke is. Next time you start it up. Have someone else start and have your nose next to the tail pipe to see if you can smell the oil , or what ever is coming out.

A lot of time a puff of mist is mistaken for oil smoke, which has a very distinctive smell to it. You can't miss it if it's oil.
Condensation blowing out won't have any real odor to it at all.

 

[Sandman 4x4]

Why would synthetic matter?

None of our Jeeps with the 3.6 have needed oil added between changes. In fact, if there is a drop, it's pretty negligible.

Might drop 1/8" inch in 7,000 miles.

Well when talking about burning oil, the word burn means ? While using full synthetic the flash point of synthetic oil, meaning the temp it can burn at is much higher than regular or blended reg/syn oils. So logical reasoning suggests that synthetic oil burns less because of higher temps. But there’s is a point in older high mileage engines where tolerances have worn, where slightly thinner at all temps, but mostly low temps that synthetic oils can leak/pass by to get burned in a combustion cycle. Where the naturally thicker dyno oil might not. That is the one downside with using syn oil in older high mileage vehicles. But overall if you’re waiting till 7,000 miles between oil changes? You should be using synthetic oil! Because reg oil changes should be every 3,000 miles!

 

[webduelist]

Nobody has asked this question. How many miles are on the JT?

Your video. I can't really tell what color the smoke is. Next time you start it up. Have someone else start and have your nose next to the tail pipe to see if you can smell the oil , or what ever is coming out.

Less than 9000, also if you pause right at the end as it gets pretty dispersed you can see that distinctive oil smoke blue color.

Also I am not a rookie mechanic, and have taken apart more than 1 jeep motor in my day , including the rarer XJ v6 (not i6), I know you don't know me but I would never mistake condensation or other things burning for oil burning.

 

[webduelist]

OK, back to more thinking (Things will be crazy here from Thursday to Sunday)

First - don't panic as if the engine is going to self-destruct in days. You can consume a lot of oil and not blow things up. Good? NO. But you can go a long ways before you run into more serious trouble unless there is something like a broken ring, that sort of thing (cylinder wall gouging, etc.)

Yes, your biggest issue is getting to get the dealer to pay attention, take it seriously and deal with it.

It may take some time, some videos, and some testing on your own with a helper to get more info or something solid to show them.
Oil consumption usually shows up best under high vacuum situations. Rev and letting up, or driving and downshifting to force higher RPM with no throttle, spiking the vacuum up drawing oil into the combustion chamber.

Valve seals and guide issues may show up on a first start as oil runs down valve guides to the heads of the valves. And again, because the engine is colder and the oil won't be burned as completely - producing the blue smoke.
These having short guides to minimize friction and positive type seals tend to reduce the possibility. It can happen, but not like the old-school stuff.

If it's a PCV issue, you'll see indications in the intake "plumbing" - at the throttle body or the tube between filter box and throttle body and so on.

Rings - you'll need to do a compression or leak-down test for that. Much more involved.

Oil consumption will also show up on the spark plugs.

I did pull the PCV return line and did find trace amounts of oil in it, I know that can be kinda common but I have a feeling that is where the oil is coming from.

 

[webduelist]

Got it back from the Dealer Yesterday with No Trouble Found.... So they started an oil consumption test.... forget oil consumption I don't think that passes emission standards :P

 

[Hootbro]

Dealership give you any numbers on acceptable consumption rate?

Poking around, I could only find a TSB for the prior gen Pentastar that said 1 quart every 2000 miles under 50K total engine miles and 1 quart every 750 miles past 50K total engine miles was acceptable.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Got it back from the Dealer Yesterday with No Trouble Found.... So they started an oil consumption test.... forget oil consumption I don't think that passes emission standards :P

A certain amount is acceptable. All auto makers have their own numbers but some are as low as a quart every 1,000 miles, others are closer to 2,000 miles.
I have yet to own ANY Jeep engine that was ever even close to that. But they have to allow for a certain amount of manufacturing tolerances as well.

**A small amount of oil consumption is 100% normal - and yes, to a point does pass emissions due to the multiple catalytic converters in use and the temperatures at which they operate.

Remember, what one sees as "blue smoke" may appear more white to others, or even appear differently in different light.
And if it is really blue smoke - it WILL have an odor to it that's unmistakable.
They must follow FCA's allowed warranty procedures - and likely they are doing just that.

** There will always be a small amount of oil that passes through the PCV system. It can't be 100% avoided, it's just not possible. It can be minimized, but can never be absolute zero. Parts are moving, spinning, swinging, oscillating, and fast - causing a really fine oil mist in the air of the crankcase. So the crankcase has a super-fine oil mist in the air. The PCV is designed to spin the oil out so it settles back down to the sump, but it's not possible to catch it all (it works sort of like the cyclone dust collection I use with my blast cabinets - the really fine stuff is just plain hard to catch as it doesn't have much mass - it's about physics)
Also, if you note how the oiling system works in conjunction with the rings, you'll note that the rings glide over a layer of oil sprayed onto the cylinder walls on the up-stroke. The rings are pretty much floating on the oil with minimal pressure. The top ring is set below the top of the piston a bit - and any oil that's caught on the top edge of that ring at the point of combustion is burned along with the fuel. It's why modern oils are spec'd as they are - to account for that bit of oil and reduce the possibility of detonation due to that oil being there.
Rings also have "gaps" - the gap is sized so that as the rings heat and expand, the ends don't come together and bind causing it to seize or break the ring. So when the engine is cold, the ring gaps are larger, allowing for a bit more oil to pass and be "burned".

In short, the dealer is at least not totally brushing things off, and I'd bet they are going by the book. If it's to be covered by Jeep - and Jeep covers this - NOT the dealer - then they must follow Jeep's rules. The dealer is in the middle, between you and Jeep, and if they don't follow the rules and do a lot of work and you expect that work to be for free - the dealer ends up eating it.

This is a process that literally takes a lot of time - because it depends on miles. If you only drive it 400 miles a month compared to someone putting on 2,000 miles a month, it's going to take a lot longer.
It can't be rushed.
They must show oil consumption before the more expensive testing - compression and leak-down tests.

 

[webduelist]

A certain amount is acceptable. All auto makers have their own numbers but some are as low as a quart every 1,000 miles, others are closer to 2,000 miles.
I have yet to own ANY Jeep engine that was ever even close to that. But they have to allow for a certain amount of manufacturing tolerances as well.

**A small amount of oil consumption is 100% normal - and yes, to a point does pass emissions due to the multiple catalytic converters in use and the temperatures at which they operate.

Remember, what one sees as "blue smoke" may appear more white to others, or even appear differently in different light.
And if it is really blue smoke - it WILL have an odor to it that's unmistakable.
They must follow FCA's allowed warranty procedures - and likely they are doing just that.

** There will always be a small amount of oil that passes through the PCV system. It can't be 100% avoided, it's just not possible. It can be minimized, but can never be absolute zero. Parts are moving, spinning, swinging, oscillating, and fast - causing a really fine oil mist in the air of the crankcase. So the crankcase has a super-fine oil mist in the air. The PCV is designed to spin the oil out so it settles back down to the sump, but it's not possible to catch it all (it works sort of like the cyclone dust collection I use with my blast cabinets - the really fine stuff is just plain hard to catch as it doesn't have much mass - it's about physics)
Also, if you note how the oiling system works in conjunction with the rings, you'll note that the rings glide over a layer of oil sprayed onto the cylinder walls on the up-stroke. The rings are pretty much floating on the oil with minimal pressure. The top ring is set below the top of the piston a bit - and any oil that's caught on the top edge of that ring at the point of combustion is burned along with the fuel. It's why modern oils are spec'd as they are - to account for that bit of oil and reduce the possibility of detonation due to that oil being there.
Rings also have "gaps" - the gap is sized so that as the rings heat and expand, the ends don't come together and bind causing it to seize or break the ring. So when the engine is cold, the ring gaps are larger, allowing for a bit more oil to pass and be "burned".

In short, the dealer is at least not totally brushing things off, and I'd bet they are going by the book. If it's to be covered by Jeep - and Jeep covers this - NOT the dealer - then they must follow Jeep's rules. The dealer is in the middle, between you and Jeep, and if they don't follow the rules and do a lot of work and you expect that work to be for free - the dealer ends up eating it.

This is a process that literally takes a lot of time - because it depends on miles. If you only drive it 400 miles a month compared to someone putting on 2,000 miles a month, it's going to take a lot longer.
It can't be rushed.
They must show oil consumption before the more expensive testing - compression and leak-down tests.

Got off the phone with Jeep Customer Care and are deeply concerned about lack of urgency from the dealer, according to them any "new" vehicle burning oil is considered a safety risk and the fact that I have it on video they should have been taking it more seriously.

They are concerned as I am that its burning oil while driving as well and regardless will cause carbon build up and fouled plugs if not addressed.

They then attempted to call the dealer and none of the advisors would take the call and kept putting them through to Voicemail.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Got off the phone with Jeep Customer Care and are deeply concerned about lack of urgency from the dealer, according to them any "new" vehicle burning oil is considered a safety risk and the fact that I have it on video they should have been taking it more seriously.

They are concerned as I am that its burning oil while driving as well and regardless will cause carbon build up and fouled plugs if not addressed.

They then attempted to call the dealer and none of the advisors would take the call and kept putting them through to Voicemail.

FCA has the power to pull their license.

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