Can somebody help me understand Antennas?

[jav_eee]

Would I have to ground the ghost antenna up there?

I’ve been licensed for amateur radio since 2007. Ground your antenna mount.

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[kb5zcr]

I think you need to try the below before you do anything that costs money.
Find someone with a mobile radio mounted in their vehicle and then you and he try some radio range tests, he can sit wherever he is and you drive around town, or down the highway or whatever and actually see how it works mobile to mobile.

Testing with just a mobile with a handheld is not going to tell you much since the little handheld doesn't really have a good antenna or any power.

I think you will find you just don't have any activity in your area.
Also, make sure whoever you test with doesn't have any tones set, and yours the same.

I don't think folks use gmrs like folks used CBs back in the day, at least in my area they don't (no chit-chat going on)

 

[Alpine Warthog]

Find someone with a mobile radio mounted in their vehicle and then you and he try some radio range tests, he can sit wherever he is and you drive around town, or down the highway or whatever and actually see how it works mobile to mobile.

Testing with just a mobile with a handheld is not going to tell you much since the little handheld doesn't really have a good antenna or any power.

I think you will find you just don't have any activity in your area.
Also, make sure whoever you test with doesn't have any tones set, and yours the same.

I don't think folks use gmrs like folks used CBs back in the day, at least in my area they don't (no chit-chat going on)

The FRS at least confirmed it was transmitting. I do need to test with another good mobile radio user.
I'll investigate the tones thing, I think i made sure everything was off but maybe I missed those.

The only chatter I do hear is on the FRS channels and it's all business or kids playing.

Ground your antenna mount.

If I mount the ghost antenna on the fiberglass shell, how do I ground it? Just a flat braid sandwiched between the coax cable and connector?

 

[HooliganActual]

@Alpine Warthog

I am far from being an expert on radios, they are a "necessary evil" IMHO. I struggled finding a good place to mount an antenna on my Wranglers until someone (who supposedly knows about radios) explained to me that the antenna needs to sit on top of a large metal plane; which the fiberglass roof is not. He also explained that the tire carrier mounts for Wrangler are poor choices as well.

For my Wranglers, I bought a set of ditch light mounts and put one on each Wrangler (you can see on my wife's Wrangler in this shot):

And for the Gladiator, I decided to try one of the hood gutter mounts (you can see just right behind the second "A" in WANDA):

I can't say this would fix your issue with any certainty, but it certainly solved my issues.

EDIT: the other thing he told me is that your antenna has to extend above the roof line. He said typically, it should be a couple of feet off of the metal plane, but a couple of feet on a hood mount doesn't extend above the roof line; so I believe I have a 4' antenna on the Gladiator.

 

[TwoSerious]

Sorry if I missed it in the replies but are you trying to reach others via GRMS repeaters? Or simplex. Technically that midland graphic is correct. The more gain an antenna has to more focused the beam. For instance, they could give you a 15db gain antenna and it would be great for flatland simplex but could hinder you when trying to hit a mountain top repeater. You can get no ground plane antennas that can be mounted on fiberglass and such but usually requires a tuned length of cable. The idea of mounting an antenna on fiberglass with a metal plate counterpoise (Ground plane) is a common solution and is actually what most Law Enforcement wranglers have done if they end up using the roof as a mounting point.

 

[Radio Guy]

Exactly, yes, but they really weren't that important, it was nothing that REQUIRED a response.



Yup, got my GMRS license (HAMiture is something I'll play with after GMRS and CB are settled). I'm attracted to the size of the ghost antenna since GMRS will likely be for trail runs, in the woods. I'm not sure its popular enough to be useful for natural disasters but the fact that it talks with little FRS radios is a huge advantage since LOTS of people have those little guys.

I also used to run a steel whip antenna on my XJ (and I want to again, just trying to sort the GMRS first) but that had problems with grounding since it was mounted to a roof rack, and I could never seem to get a solid ground.

Most frustrating thing is used to run one of these in my sleep. And now I can't even get a little antenna to work reliably.

Looks like an old FAC setup for a HUMVEE using some PRC-113s, SINCGARS and a PRC-104 HF exciter in possibly a Harris adapter/mount. Where did all the crypto gear go? Anyway I believe your setup is probably working as expected for the radio and antenna you have based on the 1mi range you got to an FRS handheld. I also believe the problem is you are trying to contact other GMRS users who may be on a distant repeater and you are either too far away trying on simplex or they are tone squelched and simply cannot hear you without the proper tone.

GMRS and most FM/commercial/public service radios use one of several tone coded squelch types that keep their radios quite unless you use the same tone as their group. Its similar to the 150Hz tone in some of your green radios above except there is about 200 or more to choose from in the GMRS/commercial radio world.

Your radio might have a tone search mode where you tone squelch your radio then let it scan to find whatever tone/digital tone the other people are using, then you program that same tone and if they are within simplex range they will hear you. I would read the manual to your radio to see if it has a tone search option then use it.

 

[Parkerjw121209]

Can somebody help me understand this graphic I found on Midland's site?

I live in NorthWest PA in the Allegheny "Mountains" Lots of tall hills and the National Forest is my backyard. I've been running the Midland ghost antenna mounted to the top of my windshield lightbar. Got decent reception but for some reason nobody around here will respond to a radio check ?

anywhoooo, I just removed the lightbar and I'm not likely to put it back on so I'm hunting for better placement or a better antenna. I was a radio troop a long time ago and even with all the radio/antenna theory I had thrown at me, I'd never seen a graphic like the one below. Is there any validity to it? I worked the whole band from HF to UHF and Sat so I know about skipping and the changing of the ionosphere and NVIS antennas but for the life of me, I can't get a dang GMRS or CB antenna to run reliably.

I’ve got a cobra cb and a fire stick brand antenna installed on my Gladiator that works. I’d recommend Right Channel Radios. They have good information on their website on install and troubleshooting. They also offer step by step info on getting a GMRS license.

 

[djthumper]

From what it sounds like from your comments is your radio is likely working properly with transmissions. It is likely not very much usage from other GMRS users in the area or a CTCSS (Privacy Channel) issue.

Even out here in Vegas, there are a lot of people talking here and there, a lot on repeaters. If you are on just an open channel they will not hear you.

 

[jav_eee]

If I mount the ghost antenna on the fiberglass shell, how do I ground it? Just a flat braid sandwiched between the coax cable and connector?

I don't have much experience with fiberglass mounting procedures but what I would do in your case is contact a local outfitter to see how they do it for ambulance installs. You don't want too long of a braided ground strap as it might become the antenna.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

Sorry if I missed it in the replies but are you trying to reach others via GRMS repeaters?

I was under the impression that repeaters only worked on a couple specific channels, Am I mixed up on that?

Looks like an old FAC setup for a HUMVEE using some PRC-113s, SINCGARS and a PRC-104 HF exciter in possibly a Harris adapter/mount. Where did all the crypto gear go? Anyway I believe your setup is probably working as expected for the radio and antenna you have based on the 1mi range you got to an FRS handheld. I also believe the problem is you are trying to contact other GMRS users who may be on a distant repeater and you are either too far away trying on simplex or they are tone squelched and simply cannot hear you without the proper tone.

GMRS and most FM/commercial/public service radios use one of several tone coded squelch types that keep their radios quite unless you use the same tone as their group. Its similar to the 150Hz tone in some of your green radios above except there is about 200 or more to choose from in the GMRS/commercial radio world.

I'm about floored that there's anybody that recognized the good ol' GRC-206 (this one is a V3) Mine was mounted in a Hummer from 89 LOL.
We were just fielding the v5s when I left the career field. (In the pic the 55, 99 were still considered classified so they were yanked. )

I'm going to have to investigate the tone thing. I left it pretty much as it was when it came out of the box since I assume most people do. I admit I have to read up more on the repeaters, tone and the privacy codes

 

[TwoSerious]

I was under the impression that repeaters only worked on a couple specific channels, Am I mixed up on that?

It is just a few channels but I generally get more people monitoring the repeater channels casually than the simplex channels.

 

[jav_eee]

I admit I have to read up more on the repeaters, tone and the privacy codes

For GMRS repeaters are only allowed on a few select channels, those are 15 through 22.

Tones and privacy codes are basically the same thing. Midland radios offer two types, CTCSS (which is the most commonly used for repeaters) and DCS. Using a tone for the receive side basically makes your radio and the repeater deaf to anything that isn't transmitting that particular tone. If you or someone attempting to call you does not have the correct tone set then you will not "open up" the repeater/radio to receive your transmission.

Your location says NW PA so i checked mygmrs.net for repeaters in that area. Closest one i found was in Rockton. That repeater requires you to have your radio on repeater channel 20 with a CTCSS code of 141.3 which midland labels as 22. So 20^22.

Here's the kicker: from my minimal research it seems like midland radios set the tone for both TX and RX so on that particular repeater that has no output tone your radio would basically block it out since it needs to hear the tone to permit the receive side to open up.

Which radio do you have?

 

[Alpine Warthog]

For GMRS repeaters are only allowed on a few select channels, those are 15 through 22.

Tones and privacy codes are basically the same thing. Midland radios offer two types, CTCSS (which is the most commonly used for repeaters) and DCS. Using a tone for the receive side basically makes your radio and the repeater deaf to anything that isn't transmitting that particular tone. If you or someone attempting to call you does not have the correct tone set then you will not "open up" the repeater/radio to receive your transmission.

Your location says NW PA so i checked mygmrs.net for repeaters in that area. Closest one i found was in Rockton. That repeater requires you to have your radio on repeater channel 20 with a CTCSS code of 141.3 which midland labels as 22. So 20^22.

Here's the kicker: from my minimal research it seems like midland radios set the tone for both TX and RX so on that particular repeater that has no output tone your radio would basically block it out since it needs to hear the tone to permit the receive side to open up.

Which radio do you have?

So, bouncing off of a repeater in this instance is impossible even though we were on ch19?

I'm running an MXT275 with a ghost antenna,

 

[jav_eee]

So, bouncing off of a repeater in this instance is impossible even though we were on ch19?

I'm running an MXT275 with a ghost antenna,

bouncing off a repeater is certainly possible provided you pick the right tone. As stated earlier, if the repeater transmits without a tone then your radio will be deaf to it. This might lead you to believe that no one hears you. Next time after you transmit, push the MON button on the mic while you listen for a reply. This should open up the squelch and cancel the tone requirement and should allow you to hear if someone responds. You’ll hear static in this mode.

 

[BearFootSam]

See if you can borrow a VNA to check the SWR at your desired frequency. If you are getting poor signal you might also add filters to your radio's DC line.

For external antennas, it is a good idea to periodically check your SWR to see if anything has degraded, due to friction on your RF lines or corrosion in your connectors. I use a dielectric paste on all of my external RF junctions to guard against moisture intrusion.

I've been a licensed HAM for about a decade, and I always encourage folks to get licensed. GMRS is an accessible option but the equipment is not anywhere near the standard you will find in a major Amateur transceiver. With a 5w Kenwood HT I can reliably hit repeaters 40-60 miles out.

Off roading is a great use case for APRS. If you are in a party with others using APRS, you'll be able to send text messages and communicate location automatically. The flexibility of the equipment allows for setting up ad-hoc comms networks such as positioning one vehicle on a ridge as a cross band repeater to relay out to repeater networks or distant members of your own party.

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