Class action lawsuit against fca

[glassjawkid32]

Yes, other than likely tune differences, the same basic engine.

I find it interesting when doing more research on the "issues" that the people in the know who have dived into the details say the first gen 3.6 had left head issues due to valve seat problems, and it was the even numbered bank, on the left and that it was resolved (save for some issues still coming out of the plant in Mexico) and that it wasn't cam related while others say it's cam issues that caused the head to wear. Hmmm, that sounds odd.....
And then the lawsuit is lumping all sorts of things together and claiming it's all the same cause even among different generations of engines. They are basically saying the issue that was resolved and was left head is still the same issue experienced today years later.
The more I read, the more I believe someone who isn't mechanically inclined at all is simply lumping all 3.6 cam and head issues together and saying nothing was changed in all of these years. That part is simply not true.

There had to be certain changes put into place to support the VVL system, and of course the cam was redesigned, the rockers (followers) were redesigned to some extent, etc.
Further, there's evidence that some of the issues were from the plant in Mexico and U.S. made engines didn't have the same problem because it was manufacturing problems - which one report says were resolved.

I really don't expect this particular law suit to go very far. Any good mechanic or engineer will take it apart.

I'm not suggesting there have been no problems, and I'm certainly not suggesting there isn't a problem at this point in time, but my bet is that the causes are diverse while the symptoms are similar or the same. It's like when you feel sick and run a fever with certain symptoms - the number of causes are many, the symptoms nearly the same.
It's not really different with modern engines.
This suite is attempting to lump all issues into the same cause when what I find indicates that's clearly not the case - at least for those not personally or emotionally involved or attached to the issue(s).

It would be interesting in any case to see where this specific suit goes.



And that tends to point to piston slap or valve train noise. Rods and mains don't typically "sound better" with a warm up......... but valve train sounds can as parts expand, same with piston slap.

Yes this is why I don't suspect rod knock, it's only even noticeable at idle. Does not go with the rpms when hitting the gas and is somewhat intermittent even when you can hear it. I've found videos on other forums where they had this exact sound and it turned out to be the tick, but if I understand your previous post the bearing has been removed from the design. I'll see what they say next week.

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[chorky]

And that tends to point to piston slap or valve train noise. Rods and mains don't typically "sound better" with a warm up......... but valve train sounds can as parts expand, same with piston slap.

Yeah that changes things a bit. Still not a great sound, hopefully it can be resolved.

Interesting bit of info here you posted. It almost seems to me like the lawsuit is for the purposes of a lawsuit and not really trying to nail down the problem. Fining the root cause of a vehicle issue like this can certainly be tiring and frustrating. Especially when it's been out for so many years despite being redesigned. In some cases though noises, though irritating and concerning, don't end up actually causing catastrophic issues. Not that that is the case here or that it suggests any person should just 'live with it'. But I have experienced that with other vehicles in the past and other issues. It would be interesting to see the percent of engines that have these concerns as compared to the total number of engines produced - I think somebody said something about that either in this thread or a different one.

 

[Suburban Mojave]

Hopefully this works but you can hear the sound pretty well in the video.

@kscoke does this sound familiar?

That's the same sound I am experiencing.
Dammit

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah that changes things a bit. Still not a great sound, hopefully it can be resolved.

Interesting bit of info here you posted. It almost seems to me like the lawsuit is for the purposes of a lawsuit and not really trying to nail down the problem. Fining the root cause of a vehicle issue like this can certainly be tiring and frustrating. Especially when it's been out for so many years despite being redesigned. In some cases though noises, though irritating and concerning, don't end up actually causing catastrophic issues. Not that that is the case here or that it suggests any person should just 'live with it'. But I have experienced that with other vehicles in the past and other issues. It would be interesting to see the percent of engines that have these concerns as compared to the total number of engines produced - I think somebody said something about that either in this thread or a different one.

Good points - I'd love to know the percentages. Something like over 10 million of the 3.6 out there since their introduction a decade ago....... that doesn't make those who have the issues or failures feel any better or help them any, just puts things into perspective.
I'm sort of used to valve train sounds - the 4.0 was not a quiet engine anyway, some AMC people say it sounds "like a damn truck engine" and in some respects, it does remind me of the Ford I6 in the grain trucks I had...... and then add an xtreme 4x4 cam with more radical ramps and the valves literally get thrown open and slammed closed. Similar for the 390 Javelin I had - the cam in that also had not high lift, but made up for it with more radical ramps It wasn't lopey, but the valve train wasn't quiet.
So when I hear the 3.6 running, it makes me feel comfortable LOL - reminds me of the old days. IN the cab mine is quiet and I almost forget to shut it down before exiting....... outside it has valve train noise. Not a tick-tick of 1 or 4 rockers, but more the sound of injector clatter.

Anywho, there are times like these where I wish I was still fully working in a production shop where Jeeps were repaired. I'd LOVE to have hands on with these things. If I could turn back the clock 35 years and still know what I see now, I'd be all over that Jeep service manager job.
I've always been into research and troubleshooting (that's what my instructors said I did best), it's what I love most and it's driving me nuts not having my hands on these things.

the other night I stayed up later than norm and tried hard to find evidence of a decade-long issue with the 3.6, even looking at anecdotal "evidence", angry Jeep owner posts, forums, auto review sites, and so far, I see problems but not something that spans both "generations", nor do they appear to all be the same root cause.
And that makes it tough - one has to pick a path and go down it and focus and ignore the other things that cause a similar outcome. You have to be methodical about it.
Chances are if you have 10 valve train failures - there's at least 2 or 3 causes. Maybe more.

 

[@californiajeeping]

Mine developed a tick/rattle and if you threw a brick on the peddle and went to the speed limiter for a few seconds it would Throw cel mil soft codes and misfire. Dealer said all is normal so I traded it for a 2022 diesel. My third pentastar and all 3 develop the tick and rattle.
Also the gladiator had considerable part throttle pinging at all times if you go up a light hill at low rpm.

clearly a tuning issue. I’ve had enough and moved to the diesels. Hopefully get a couple years of trouble free diesel life.

 

[Fortus]

Odd, mine has had the "tick" since brand new, but only after it warms up, only at idle, and I can only hear it when the JT is inside the garage. I hope it's normal injector noise in my case.

 

[calipoontappa]

Hopefully this works but you can hear the sound pretty well in the video.

@kscoke does this sound familiar?

Same exact sound mine made…they replaced the engine in mine at 4500 miles, less than 6 months ownership…

Out of commission for almost 2 months.

 

[glassjawkid32]

Same exact sound mine made…they replaced the engine in mine at 4500 miles, less than 6 months ownership…

Out of commission for almost 2 months.

I see you're in SD. Where'd you take it?

 

[calipoontappa]

Yeah I’m SD. Poway Jeep replaced the engine. It was a pain dealing w them and they messed up a harness which had to be replaced by Kearny Mesa Jeep where I had to leave my truck for another 2 weeks. Shit show to say the least but now it seems to be good. No issues for a while.

 

[glassjawkid32]

Yeah I’m SD. Poway Jeep replaced the engine. It was a pain dealing w them and they messed up a harness which had to be replaced by Kearny Mesa Jeep where I had to leave my truck for another 2 weeks. Shit show to say the least but now it seems to be good. No issues for a while.

Good to know. I've tried to go there twice now but they've been in limbo with an ownership change. Probably good I want able to get in there.

 

[calipoontappa]

Good to know. I've tried to go there twice now but they've been in limbo with an ownership change. Probably good I want able to get in there.

yeah they have been back online for a few months now. They are not the greatest but they are the best of the worst if that makes sense. Kearny Mesa is absolute garbage and Escondido is the worst service department I’ve ever talked to, they wanted me to put on my stock wheels in order to even look at my truck stating the big wheels/tires will void all warranties. This is after I waited 3 weeks for the appointment then they gave me a whole BS story how they refuse to work on Jeeps that are lifted or have had aftermarket work done on them. Go to Poway I’ve tried all of them in SD again, Poway is the best of the worst.

 

[glassjawkid32]

yeah they have been back online for a few months now. They are not the greatest but they are the best of the worst if that makes sense. Kearny Mesa is absolute garbage and Escondido is the worst service department I’ve ever talked to, they wanted me to put on my stock wheels in order to even look at my truck stating the big wheels/tires will void all warranties. This is after I waited 3 weeks for the appointment then they gave me a whole BS story how they refuse to work on Jeeps that are lifted or have had aftermarket work done on them. Go to Poway I’ve tried all of them in SD again, Poway is the best of the worst.

Lol it makes perfect sense ?. I'm dropping off at carl burger tomorrow, they were good on my axle seal. I'll keep poway in the back of my mind though.

 

[glassjawkid32]

Just dropped it off and so far based of the video I showed they suspect an exhaust leak. I'll keep my fellow tappers updated as I find out more.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Just dropped it off and so far based of the video I showed they suspect an exhaust leak. I'll keep my fellow tappers updated as I find out more.

You'd be surprised the number of valve covers I've seen pulled off over the years because of an exhaust leak tick tick tick.
I lost one of the header bolts out of my 73's engine and it did sound a lot like a ticking lifter but it didn't take long to see the missing bolt and nail down the tick.

 

[glassjawkid32]

You'd be surprised the number of valve covers I've seen pulled off over the years because of an exhaust leak tick tick tick.
I lost one of the header bolts out of my 73's engine and it did sound a lot like a ticking lifter but it didn't take long to see the missing bolt and nail down the tick.

I'm definitely hoping it could be a simple as that. Whatever it is it killed my fuel economy by 3-4 mpg so if it is an exhaust leak I'd imagine it's pretty close to the engine.

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