Cough death wobble, cough. 2021 overland 13k miles

[ShadowsPapa]

Complete fn idiots. Their manager tried to bully me into accepting their fix because allegedly I didn’t say it wasn’t 100% stock it has the mopar lift and I cussed this mofo out on the phone for 45 minutes saying it’s got a factory part number installed by a factory approved “trained” technician so yeah it’s “stock” basically told him my prior history with vehicles “used to work on multiple high end cars in; nascar, Ferrari challenge, Porsche GT3 cup, ALMS, Grand Am and quoted directly from jeep and this dumbass was like well we have high success rate with this bracket…. And I lost it like it does not belong on that kit.

How many people actually read that - and note the "unique alignment specs are required".............
You have shifted the front axle to the left - changing forces and tracking. There's only 1 alignment spec that can be changed without parts - TOE.
Caster changes require parts, and camber is even tougher to deal with because it's welded in at the factory unless you get unique ball joints.

Alignment specs are for stock trucks. You swap parts, and now it's not a Jeep truck, it's something else.
No one pays attention to what's happening with lifts. It is no longer the same Truck that Jeep sold. As Lee used to say "the rules have changed".
But also as Scotty used to say..........

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[Pcasp3]

Did you install the Mopar longer control arms? Those should have corrected the caster after the lift.

A positive caster of 5.5 - 6.0 drives great on these things.

The whole dang kit was installed. At dealership brand new

 

[Pcasp3]

How many people actually read that - and note the "unique alignment specs are required".............
You have shifted the front axle to the left - changing forces and tracking. There's only 1 alignment spec that can be changed without parts - TOE.
Caster changes require parts, and camber is even tougher to deal with because it's welded in at the factory unless you get unique ball joints.

Alignment specs are for stock trucks. You swap parts, and now it's not a Jeep truck, it's something else.
No one pays attention to what's happening with lifts. It is no longer the same Truck that Jeep sold. As Lee used to say "the rules have changed".
But also as Scotty used to say..........

The kit has engineered control arms to deal with the caster.

 

[Pcasp3]

Naw, it's not....... I've posted over and over quotes from real legit suspension design engineers, performance engineers, and guys who design this stuff - one of them worked for MOPAR for years.
This quote is from a guy who modified Power Wagons and Jeeps for years, owned and operated businesses that were involved in just that. He was a desert racer in the 1960s and NASCAR pit crewman in the 1970s ->

A steering damper is not a fix, it's a band-aid used to mask issues with either worn components or poor design. Dampers did not start appearing on stock vehicles until the late 70s, mostly associated with the trend to larger (wider thus heavier) tires on older designs. Rather than redesign the entire front-end geometry, AMC found it less expensive to add the damper.

On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour. On an improperly designed and/or poorly maintained system, a damper is used as a crutch to mask issues with suspension and tire errors.

Jeeps and other vehicles experienced shimmy way before the 1960s, and before the advent of lifts and larger tires. Worn components are just as much at fault as jury-rigged suspensions.

A Jeep engineer was involved in that discussion and never even suggested that a dampener was a fix or solution. His experience is listed below -

• Freightliner engineering, 2008-09
• Senior engineer - chassis design synthesis (developed business integration plan, process, and documentation for CATIA use in advanced vehicle engineering), 2002-2004
• CATIA Kinematic Application trainer and engineer, American Axle, 2002
• Tenneco Automotive Japan, Ltd - Consultant on exhaust systems design and prototype troubleshooting to Isuzu on GMT 355 / ISZ 190 project; employee training on design systems, 2000-01; Vehicle Exhaust Systems Design and Prototype Troubleshooting to Isuzu Motors, Fujisawa, Japan on GMT 355/ISZ 190 Project
• Tenneco Automotive, Michigan, American LaFrance design, Wagner Lighting (exterior lighting systems for GM and Chrysler), Catnet, Autoliv (airbags/restraings for GM and Chrysler), Masland (interior components for Chrysler), GM Corvette Group (C5 mule prototype design), Harvard Industries (engine fans for GM, door frames for Chrysler)
• Chrysler Corporation Jeep/Truck Engineering, 1987-1992, including Senior Designer, 4x4 Vehicle Suspensions - responsible for all 4x4 suspension design concepts on Dodge BR (full size RAM pickup); Jeep Motorsports race team assistance.
• AM General - senior suspension design for FMTV and HMMWV; GM Truck Group - Military Vehicles Operations; GM Truck and Bus Group, International Harvester TSPC and Scout Group

But everyone on the internet is an engineer, so I guess that guy was full of crap, eh?
If everything is fine, you can take the damned dampener off and drive it fine.

This. Literally

 

[Pcasp3]

A Mopar lift is not stock. You cussed a guy out because they want to further modify your already modified vehicle to correct the geometry? Real classy.

It is not stock. Where the lift kit came from, part numbers, who installed it, is inconsequential. It's modified from it's original configuration.

Those Mopar lifts are trash. They do nothing to correct the geometry. I would take that crap off and buy a real lift with adjustable control arms, front track bar and at least a rear track bar correction bracket. Get all of the geometry back in spec.

If it’s engineered from the manufacture, sold by the manufacture, it should work as is. Yeah I cussed him out for being a complete and udder prick for not listening to my concerns for a 65k paperweight that they can’t fix.

 

[Lunentucker]

There are probably thousands of jeeps running the stock dealer installed Mopar lift with the Mopar lengthened control arms, and not having these issues.
That's where the focus off this problem needs to go.
Either the dealer screwed something up on the install or some other serious and relevant issue is being overlooked.

OP, it's your call, but if it were me I would have the thing looked at by a reputable and competent third party.
It may cost you some out of pocket that it really shouldn't, but it could also solve the issues, give you peace of mind, and maybe even save you from harm.

You can always go back in 36 years and settle up with the dealer

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/07/g...ld-man-to-torch-cars-at-his-local-dealership/

 

[Pcasp3]

There are probably thousands of jeeps running the stock dealer installed Mopar lift with the Mopar lengthened control arms, and not having these issues.
That's where the focus off this problem needs to go.
Either the dealer screwed something up on the install or some other serious and relevant issue is being overlooked.

OP, it's your call, but if it were me I would have the thing looked at by a reputable and competent third party.
It may cost you some out of pocket that it really shouldn't, but it could also solve the issues, give you peace of mind, and maybe even save you from harm.

You can always go back in 36 years and settle up with the dealer

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/07/g...ld-man-to-torch-cars-at-his-local-dealership/

Bahaha I used to work at this dealer is the depressing part left on good terms since I found a better job in a different field felt compelled to be a customer and support my prior employer. But that’s the thing 13k flawless miles then this. I’m kinda at the point where I just wanna get rid of it bc it’ll probably just happen again

 

[OffAxis2021]

I admittedly did not read through this entire thread, but my first thought is about the correct/proper hub bore size (71.50mm) of the wheels may play into affect of said issue(s). Anything larger, as in what I thought were going to be my wheels, would have been only lug centric and not hub centric (hub and lug centric?). I am probably [way] off, but that quickly become the first and foremost thing I looked at when buying aftermarket wheels.
Bought Method 315s.

Found it… stock wheels… damn.

 

[Lunentucker]

I admittedly did not read through this entire thread, but my first thought is about the correct/proper hub bore size (71.50mm) of the wheels may play into affect of said issue(s). Anything larger, as in what I thought were going to be my wheels, would have been only lug centric and not hub centric (hub and lug centric?). I am probably [way] off, but that quickly become the first and foremost thing I looked at when buying aftermarket wheels. Bought Method 315s.

I think it's stock wheels.

 

[JET_83]

It’s 2022 should death wobble really still be a thing

 

[Akgladiator]

Bahaha I used to work at this dealer is the depressing part left on good terms since I found a better job in a different field felt compelled to be a customer and support my prior employer. But that’s the thing 13k flawless miles then this. I’m kinda at the point where I just wanna get rid of it bc it’ll probably just happen again

Perhaps the dealership who installed the Mopar kit did not use the full kit. Incompetent dealerships are everywhere, stealerships are what they are good at.

Like everyone here recommended, Jeep specialist shop is what u need...

 

[CharlieO]

Hello all. Just wanted to add my info in the DW research list. Bought my completely stock 2022 JT diesel from Gupton and drove home to Miami, Fl. I had DW out the gate on the highway mostly at the speed range of 70-75 mph. It seemed to lessen as I got to warmer weather as it was still snow on the ground inTN when I bought it.
I have stock tires and rims. No lift. Was brand new when picked up. Have not had much issue till this week.
Drive from Miami to N. C., DW occurred multiple times and I can repeat it if necessary. It now occurs in a speed range of 64 and up. It is also taking a greater slow down to get it to stop shaking. What is interesting is it does not transmit a lot to the steering wheel.
Not going to be able to get it checked as I have to drive to upper state N. Y. And will just keep the speed low.
just thought this my help with the diagnosis. Don’t know if @JeepCares watches these threads but it may help them too.

 

[Mr._Bill]

JeepCares will look at threads when they are tagged, but usually do not post publicly. All their contact is primarily through private messages. They are a facilitator to help resolve issues, not a proactive problem solver.

 

[Pcasp3]

Hello all. Just wanted to add my info in the DW research list. Bought my completely stock 2022 JT diesel from Gupton and drove home to Miami, Fl. I had DW out the gate on the highway mostly at the speed range of 70-75 mph. It seemed to lessen as I got to warmer weather as it was still snow on the ground inTN when I bought it.
I have stock tires and rims. No lift. Was brand new when picked up. Have not had much issue till this week.
Drive from Miami to N. C., DW occurred multiple times and I can repeat it if necessary. It now occurs in a speed range of 64 and up. It is also taking a greater slow down to get it to stop shaking. What is interesting is it does not transmit a lot to the steering wheel.
Not going to be able to get it checked as I have to drive to upper state N. Y. And will just keep the speed low.
just thought this my help with the diagnosis. Don’t know if @JeepCares watches these threads but it may help them too.

i have been working with jeep care they really dont... all they do is make phone calls to the dealer annnnd its pretty useless unless you want someone other than the dealer to tell you your jeep is broken go somewhere else if they cannot fix it

 

[glassjawkid32]

I highly doubt it's due to caster. Just retorque the suspension yourself instead of running through hoops with the dealer. I had death wobble once on my icon lift and mopar lcas. Track bar got loose after initial installation. Nothing since retorque. Doubt it's the engineering of the kit.

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