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Death Wobble is back....

Jeeperjamie

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Tires are stiffer. Bushings are stiffer. Shock are stiffer.

This is definitely possible.

But like others have said. The steering damper is a band aid that might hide the problem. But a properly set up front end doesn't even need a steering stabilizer.

****Does it happen at the beginning of a trip? Or 20 miles into it? Or all the time?



A wheel or tire issue gets progressively worse as speed increases and is 100% consistent. Slow to X speed and its not noticeable. Speed up to Y speed and it is the same intensity every time.

A death wobble isn't like that. Its not 100% consistent and it doesn't increase gradually as you go faster. something "triggers" it. Like a bump. Out of round whee or out of balance tire is felt all the time.

To the OP. Is this something that is triggered by a bump or something? Or is it constant?

If its constant. I'd swap the front and back wheels on my own and see what happens.
That's why I said it seems more like a wheel thrown a weight or tire out of round. He's running 70 in the video and then he felt like it was unsafe. I'm guessing it felt ok when he left the house but as speed increased he felt the wheel shaking. That's just a guess though.
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amillerr10

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I have another forum opened as i didnt know this one existed. I have the wobble in my gladiator, completely stock. so far, jeep has swapped out my stabilizer and steering gear box, torqued all suspension components and checked for wear on them, rebalanced/alignment all tires, and i STILL have the wobble. they just called back and said they will have to open a star case on it but can not get it in until AFTER xmas. unfortunate because i do not feel safe to drive the car and i travel for work. Said they do not have any loaners to give. i asked for paperwork stating the vehicle was safe to drive, but like i thought, they couldn't do that, which makes me feel even more nervous about driving it.

Quick side note: i went through the same exact process with my Wrangler JL 3 years ago! Got the death wobble, jeep swapped stabilizers out 4 different times at 3 different dealerships. they opened a star case as it was not a known issue yet... finally brought it to another dealership and they put aftermarket parts on it and i never had the wobble again after that.... bizarre i get this JT and the same exact process is happening.
 

Jeeperjamie

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I have another forum opened as i didnt know this one existed. I have the wobble in my gladiator, completely stock. so far, jeep has swapped out my stabilizer and steering gear box, torqued all suspension components and checked for wear on them, rebalanced/alignment all tires, and i STILL have the wobble. they just called back and said they will have to open a star case on it but can not get it in until AFTER xmas. unfortunate because i do not feel safe to drive the car and i travel for work. Said they do not have any loaners to give. i asked for paperwork stating the vehicle was safe to drive, but like i thought, they couldn't do that, which makes me feel even more nervous about driving it.

Quick side note: i went through the same exact process with my Wrangler JL 3 years ago! Got the death wobble, jeep swapped stabilizers out 4 different times at 3 different dealerships. they opened a star case as it was not a known issue yet... finally brought it to another dealership and they put aftermarket parts on it and i never had the wobble again after that.... bizarre i get this JT and the same exact process is happening.
I can tell you it isn't the stock parts that are bad, yours may have been but not everyone has bad stock parts. Something as little as a worn out bushing in the trackbar can cause death wobble, that can happen to any of them aftermarket parts or stock parts. I ran my stock trackbar on my JKU for 60,000 miles before I took it off and put on a adjustable trackbar. That same stock trackbar is on my buddies JKU and has been on it for almost 70,000 more miles, so in all that thing has about 130,000 on it. I'm not saying stock parts can't be bad, I'm just saying they aren't trash like what people want to have you think.
 

amillerr10

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I can tell you it isn't the stock parts that are bad, yours may have been but not everyone has bad stock parts. Something as little as a worn out bushing in the trackbar can cause death wobble, that can happen to any of them aftermarket parts or stock parts. I ran my stock trackbar on my JKU for 60,000 miles before I took it off and put on a adjustable trackbar. That same stock trackbar is on my buddies JKU and has been on it for almost 70,000 more miles, so in all that thing has about 130,000 on it. I'm not saying stock parts can't be bad, I'm just saying they aren't trash like what people want to have you think.

I get that, but i dont think the JKUs have had issues like the JLs and JTs. im not a jeep connoisseur so i have no idea if anything happened during their transition to the newer style. All I know is i have had 2 new style Jeeps (2018 JL and 2021 JT) and both of them have had the same exact issue. The only thing that fixed it was a fox steering stabilizer. i realize that it may have been a "bandaid", but it IS what stopped my issue. they said that the steering gear box would be the only other cause, which i know is not correct, because it was made of aluminum and they have a steel version that they have been putting in some of these jeeps.... the only thing with that is, My JT already had the steel steering box, so they just swapped out the same part. I also understand that a variety of suspension components can cause the wobble, but it just seems all too much like a coincidence to me.

so in short, both jeeps i have owned are going through the same exact process. brought it in for an issue, they try a variety of fixes including duplicate replacements, i bring it back, they dont know whats wrong, they open a star case and tell me they will call me when they figure something out... meanwhile im stuck with a vehicle with 5000 miles on it that i cant take on the highway. its not a matter of crying about it, its a matter of me paying 45k for an offroad vehicle that cant handle small bumps on the highway. since the issue, the ride is noticeably worse. it just feels lose everytime i go over road imperfections at lower speeds. maybe i should have just opted for a JK? until then.....
 

Jeeperjamie

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I get that, but i dont think the JKUs have had issues like the JLs and JTs. im not a jeep connoisseur so i have no idea if anything happened during their transition to the newer style. All I know is i have had 2 new style Jeeps (2018 JL and 2021 JT) and both of them have had the same exact issue. The only thing that fixed it was a fox steering stabilizer. i realize that it may have been a "bandaid", but it IS what stopped my issue. they said that the steering gear box would be the only other cause, which i know is not correct, because it was made of aluminum and they have a steel version that they have been putting in some of these jeeps.... the only thing with that is, My JT already had the steel steering box, so they just swapped out the same part. I also understand that a variety of suspension components can cause the wobble, but it just seems all too much like a coincidence to me.

so in short, both jeeps i have owned are going through the same exact process. brought it in for an issue, they try a variety of fixes including duplicate replacements, i bring it back, they dont know whats wrong, they open a star case and tell me they will call me when they figure something out... meanwhile im stuck with a vehicle with 5000 miles on it that i cant take on the highway. its not a matter of crying about it, its a matter of me paying 45k for an offroad vehicle that cant handle small bumps on the highway. since the issue, the ride is noticeably worse. it just feels lose everytime i go over road imperfections at lower speeds. maybe i should have just opted for a JK? until then.....
JKs had the same issues in the beginning, just like the JLs And JTs, most solid axle vehicles have this issue, you can read about it online, it's nothing new. You just got to figure out what's causing the issue and i can promise you 100% a steering stabilizer is not the issue or the fix. That's just a shock for your steering to take the rough feel of the road away. Take it off, your going to feel the road more but still be able to drive your Jeep. I remove mine for a few days when I put a lift on and drive around without it to see if I need to fine tune anything. If I can drive without it on and be good then I know i got everything dialed in. The fox stabilizer you put on made it drive better but there is something else going on with your Jeep unless it wasn't as bad as you made out and it was a bad stabilizer and you just was getting some road feedback when driving. There is a huge and I mean huge difference between road feedback, bump steer, and death wobble. People get them confused but if you get real death wobble you will k ow it and a steering stabilizer want fix it. All that's going to do is mask it while some major steering part is wearing out more.
 

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amillerr10

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JKs had the same issues in the beginning, just like the JLs And JTs, most solid axle vehicles have this issue, you can read about it online, it's nothing new. You just got to figure out what's causing the issue and i can promise you 100% a steering stabilizer is not the issue or the fix. That's just a shock for your steering to take the rough feel of the road away. Take it off, your going to feel the road more but still be able to drive your Jeep. I remove mine for a few days when I put a lift on and drive around without it to see if I need to fine tune anything. If I can drive without it on and be good then I know i got everything dialed in. The fox stabilizer you put on made it drive better but there is something else going on with your Jeep unless it wasn't as bad as you made out and it was a bad stabilizer and you just was getting some road feedback when driving. There is a huge and I mean huge difference between road feedback, bump steer, and death wobble. People get them confused but if you get real death wobble you will k ow it and a steering stabilizer want fix it. All that's going to do is mask it while some major steering part is wearing out more.
Like i said before, i understand that it was most likely masking a bigger issue. its just what stopped my issue for the rest of the time i owned the JL. so whoever bought it will probably eventually develop the wobble again. I guess i don't know the other issues it could have been, but i cant imagine there is something worse than feeling like the front tires are taking turns bouncing 5 inches off the ground at highway speeds,..... To recap, i just want the issue fixed, there is no way jeep doesnt know that a steering stabilizer isnt the main cause. AND it hasnt worked in the passed. i totally understand that its not what the stabilizers job is. Like i said, back in 2018 i spent 2 months and 3 different dealership before i got a "solution". and now its been 2.5 weeks with my JT and they tell me they can get it back in until after xmas, which then will open a star case and give me a loaner car to drive for the unforseeable future.... nothing like driving a base model cherokee when you are paying a monthly note for a 45k vehicle LOL
 

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as previously stated, the problem was extremely intermittent. Some days it wouldn’t even happen and this one day it was uncontrollable. I took it to the dealer and the replaced the steering damper but they learned that the shock were leaking and it would be 25 day minimum before the parts were available. I reasoned with jeep cares and got jeep to cover the cost of installation for the mopar lift if I bought the parts. They agreed. I’ll pick my jeep up today with a new mopar 2” lift kit covered by the factory warranty. Win win if you’ve got the money for a lift
 

amillerr10

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So, the dealer ended up calling. Dropped of the Gladiator this morning and they are opening a star case for it. So I get to drive a base model Cherokee in the meantime LOL. Upon arriving, the serviceman told me that they just had another Gladiator come in with the same issue. I have a feeling this is just the start of a bigger problem just like it was in 2018 with the JLs. I will update when I hear back from them.
 

amillerr10

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Well everyone.... to recap everything..... I had the steering stabilizer changed twice (same stock part) and my steering gear box changed (changed from stock steel box to another stock steer box) and the problem still existed. they tried putting different tires on, re torquing everything, road balancing and problem still existed. they called me and said they were going to put a different steering stabilizer on with a different part number on it but that it would take two weeks... now mind you during this whole process, the feel of the suspension did not change. it felt loose and sloppy and even worse going over bumps, even at slow speeds, just felt like something was loose or wrong... they called me 2 days after they said it was going to be two weeks and said they just put a Fox Racing steering stabilizer on it and it was ready to be picked up.... i know on these forums, everyone says the steering stabilizer would never cause death wobble.... but i have to tell you, the Gladiator feels like a whole different car. It didn't feel this tight and good even when i drove it off the lot. I haven't had death wobble since... I can't tell you if this is the actual fix or not, but it definitely has solved the issue for now.....PS this is the second vehicle that the fox racing stabilizer has fixed, the first being my 2018 wranlger JL.
 

Jeeperjamie

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Well everyone.... to recap everything..... I had the steering stabilizer changed twice (same stock part) and my steering gear box changed (changed from stock steel box to another stock steer box) and the problem still existed. they tried putting different tires on, re torquing everything, road balancing and problem still existed. they called me and said they were going to put a different steering stabilizer on with a different part number on it but that it would take two weeks... now mind you during this whole process, the feel of the suspension did not change. it felt loose and sloppy and even worse going over bumps, even at slow speeds, just felt like something was loose or wrong... they called me 2 days after they said it was going to be two weeks and said they just put a Fox Racing steering stabilizer on it and it was ready to be picked up.... i know on these forums, everyone says the steering stabilizer would never cause death wobble.... but i have to tell you, the Gladiator feels like a whole different car. It didn't feel this tight and good even when i drove it off the lot. I haven't had death wobble since... I can't tell you if this is the actual fix or not, but it definitely has solved the issue for now.....PS this is the second vehicle that the fox racing stabilizer has fixed, the first being my 2018 wranlger JL.
I've got the fox stabilizer on mine as well but only because I'm OCD and when I put the Rubicon fox shocks on i wanted the Stabilizer to match so I bought one. But with that said it made zero difference from how mine rode and drove with the stock stabilizer on it, and I lost some slight turning radius with the fox stabilizer installed, i can especially tell it when making a sharp u turn. Not sure what you got going on but it's more than you needing a new stabilizer. If that was the case then everyone would have the issue, that's meaning all stock stabilizers would be bad and even then your not going to get death wobble from that. That Fox Stabilizer is just a stiffer shock which maybe took the extra give in the suspension out that was causing the death wobble but that's not going to fix the actual problem that existed, it's just going to cause that Fox Stabilizer to wear out faster than it should have
 

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amillerr10

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I've got the fox stabilizer on mine as well but only because I'm OCD and when I put the Rubicon fox shocks on i wanted the Stabilizer to match so I bought one. But with that said it made zero difference from how mine rode and drove with the stock stabilizer on it, and I lost some slight turning radius with the fox stabilizer installed, i can especially tell it when making a sharp u turn. Not sure what you got going on but it's more than you needing a new stabilizer. If that was the case then everyone would have the issue, that's meaning all stock stabilizers would be bad and even then your not going to get death wobble from that. That Fox Stabilizer is just a stiffer shock which maybe took the extra give in the suspension out that was causing the death wobble but that's not going to fix the actual problem that existed, it's just going to cause that Fox Stabilizer to wear out faster than it should have
Well..... until then... I had the fox stabilizer on my wrangler for 3 years with 0 issues. The way I see it, I go through vehicles every 2-3 years, so I probably won't have the thing if/when the fox stabilizer wears out regardless. BUT from what the serviceman said at the dealership, he made it seem like there are various part numbers for the stock stabilizers. (AE, AG, AT... to name a few from what he told me) and there seems to be no rhyme or reason if they use one over the other.... in a different forum, a different stock stabilizer fixed their problem. So I'm not sure. either way, I've had the issue with my 18 wrangler and 21 gladiator. SAME EXACT ISSUE. When the time comes for me to get a new vehicle, it probably wont be a Jeep. which is unfortunate because i do like the vehicle.
 

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Trust me dude it's completely weather related. The ride of my jeep completely changed in the cold as well. It gets much bouncier and Death Wobble only occurs when it's below 45°. I've been able to replicate it at least 20 times over the past year and it's only in the cold weather.
You are absolutely correct. Temperature has a drastic effect on this issue occurring, but so is everyone else. I'll tell you what I've discovered. The DW is not caused by the stabilizer, it's caused by worn or misaligned steering components. The stabilizer helps mask those issues because Jeep has no available stock parts that can fix your problem. What I gave discovered is that the temperature drop affects the stabilizer's ability to perform. I bet that in the mornings when it's coldest that you experience the DW the most, but in the afternoon when it warms up, then it goes away. So, to get you by until you can get your suspension components replaced or recalibrated warm that baby up. Worked for me until I could get components replaced.
 

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You are absolutely correct. Temperature has a drastic effect on this issue occurring, but so is everyone else. I'll tell you what I've discovered. The DW is not caused by the stabilizer, it's caused by worn or misaligned steering components. The stabilizer helps mask those issues because Jeep has no available stock parts that can fix your problem. What I gave discovered is that the temperature drop affects the stabilizer's ability to perform. I bet that in the mornings when it's coldest that you experience the DW the most, but in the afternoon when it warms up, then it goes away. So, to get you by until you can get your suspension components replaced or recalibrated warm that baby up. Worked for me until I could get components replaced.
Well wanna here something wild.

The holes in the trackbar brackets are drilled at 9/16" but the OEM hardware is 14mm. After time when the bushings wear or the hardware becomes loose, the holes in the mounting brackets get worn out or larger from the friction of the bolts.

Simple fix, the earlier the better replace your Trackbar bolts up front with 9/16" 3" bolts and hardware and eliminate the excessive play/slack that Jeep built in. I replaced mine 2 weeks ago when I added my Metalcloak track bar.

Below is my reference point, check the video out. Look ahead in the video to 7:37



Then check this video in what happens in the long term with the OEM 14mm bolts

 

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Well wanna here something wild.

The holes in the trackbar brackets are drilled at 9/16" but the OEM hardware is 14mm. After time when the bushings wear or the hardware becomes loose, the holes in the mounting brackets get worn out or larger from the friction of the bolts.

Simple fix, the earlier the better replace your Trackbar bolts up front with 9/16" 3" bolts and hardware and eliminate the excessive play/slack that Jeep built in. I replaced mine 2 weeks ago when I added my Metalcloak track bar.

Below is my reference point, check the video out. Look ahead in the video to 7:37



Then check this video in what happens in the long term with the OEM 14mm bolts

I've read about this too but haven't inspected mine yet. I will next time I get under her.
 

Wheelin98TJ

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Well wanna here something wild.

The holes in the trackbar brackets are drilled at 9/16" but the OEM hardware is 14mm. After time when the bushings wear or the hardware becomes loose, the holes in the mounting brackets get worn out or larger from the friction of the bolts.

Simple fix, the earlier the better replace your Trackbar bolts up front with 9/16" 3" bolts and hardware and eliminate the excessive play/slack that Jeep built in. I replaced mine 2 weeks ago when I added my Metalcloak track bar.

Below is my reference point, check the video out. Look ahead in the video to 7:37



Then check this video in what happens in the long term with the OEM 14mm bolts

The only way there is play in this connection is if the bolt is loose.

The connection relies on clamping force. It's not press to fit, the hole size being bigger does not matter. Keep the bolt tight and all is good.
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