Delete push button start, go back to keyed ignition? The rfid brick has to go...

  1. Jt-wrx

    Jt-wrx Well-Known Member

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    I want to lock my doors with the fob, unlock my doors with the fob, start the car with a key that sticks all my keys into the dash, and stop the car with my key which is attached to all my other keys and that way they always go where the jeep goes when it's running and with the driver when it's not. This push button business and rfid is not for me, so how do i eliminate it?

    There's room for keyed ignition switch to break the fuel injector pump wire so that's my initial thought and leave the damn brick in the center console and go key only if i have to, ess disabled via hood pin move method was done instantly, no room for that in my life either. I didn't buy a plain jane sport manual to be hamstrung with all this technological bullshizzo...this is my number one gripe FCA, you listening? There's a whole movement of us boomer babies that have no interest in more tech more wizardry, we have plenty in our lives, we are craving simplicity and mechanical where possible now, so keep the mechanical simple model exactly that please! Push button start and a five pound transmitter in your front pocket...wtf, maybe impress the ladies, but not me. ;)

    Anyone else with some thoughts on this or more electrical geeky than me that can point me in the direction of total rfid elimination and some system that holds the driver accountable to the vehicle regarding where the keys are? And that brick these machines come with...really FCA? Men don't do purses ok, i hate this to be a news flash but this should be really obvious, we put shit in our pants pockets and that abomination is intolerable!

    Hook me up with some direction my fellow jeepers!:please::please::please:
     
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  2. ShadowsPapa

    ShadowsPapa Well-Known Member

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    I like the electronics, security, etc. except the football sized 5 pound fob. Really - what a joke. I'd be happy with the same size as my WJ has - I mean, it can lock, unlock, honk horn, at a fraction of the size. My Chevy had a fob about the same size as my WJ and it did all that plus remote start. So why the heft and size?

    That's my only real beef with the FOB system. I'm used to the electronics - I appreciate the simple like an ignition switch with only a half dozen wires, but then I appreciate the convenience and safety/security of the new stuff, too. I mean, I did put a modern Jeep engine and PCM and PDC in my car, and I did put disk brakes on my racer..........
    You won't be able to switch over to a keyed switch, but that's not really the issue anyway as I see it. The huge heavy fob is. I don't like the pop-out laser cut key - give me an individual key - this one keeps getting switched out like a broken switch blade. Reach into pocket, dang, that laser cut key has escaped again and I have to push it back into the fob.

    Well, it's all annoyance, not anything broken so I'll get used to it.
    I learned to control the ESS with my foot - now it shuts off when I want, keeps running when I want. No biggy at all. I have the ultimate control over that with foot pressure, and how FAST I approach stops. Maybe it made me a safer driver as I don't slam on the brakes at the last second screech to a stop while passengers get thrown forward.
    My wife even noted today how I had the ess under control, some stop lights it never shut off - stale red I was easier on the brake and it never shut off, others I knew were fresh red, I applied the brake a bit more firmly to let it shut off. When I believe it's about to turn, I let up a bit and the engine is running when the tree turns green........... and I launch.
     
  3. Hootbro

    Hootbro Well-Known Member

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    Did someone knock you over the head during the test drive to make you forget about the push button start to begin with?

    Good luck hacking something in there and plan to be married to it or we will see another rant thread at trade in time because the dealer will not want to touch it with a ten foot pole.

    Adapt or die or trade it in.

    297.jpg
     
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  4. ShadowsPapa

    ShadowsPapa Well-Known Member

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    My wife is the same age as I am - she always hated having to stick a key in the Chevy ignition switch........... she likes the push button stuff a lot.

    Not so sure you could even change it out very easily. I'm sure it could be with some circuit to adapt things but as with my plating power supply, when you turn off the switch doesn't simply open the AC line and kill power, it does a systematic shut down. Computers don't shut down by cutting AC power....... my guess is that it would take some thinking to emulate how that button switch works.

    You don't even want to try to figure out how I adapted an old-school cruise control switch and got it to control a Jeep cruise control built into the PCM that was expecting totally different and at times opposite signals. This would be much worse I'm sure.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Jt-wrx

    Jt-wrx Well-Known Member

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    #5 Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
    Hahaha, i can beat this, i'm sure there's a generic keyed ignition switch somewhere that can break one wire. Seems pretty simple, just the blue one that goes to the fuel pump that the kill switch hiders use. That'll do donkey. Then i can leave the brick with the brick lol. Punk advice, no solutions or good ideas...adapt or die?...or fix it. You build it your way, now, where's the old men at with the problem solvers engaged?:rock:

    Add an alarm with a small fob to the keychain for lock/unlock the doors and voila. Problem solved, will i be the first? Surely some JL hacks solved this issue by now now?

    Sure i'd have to key the fuel pump on, then hit the start button but at least they'd be right beside each other and keys always in one spot, not in my computer bag, not in my coat pocket, not in my cupholder. If i let a buddy drive while i go for a walk for a deer and he shuts off the truck or stalls it down the trail and can't get it started because that dang fob is in my coat pocket i'll be choked, as i'm sure he will too. The keys need to always attach to the vehicle in the same spot. Turn it off by button, turn key and remove your key set, get out and lock'er up, put reasonable size fob and few keys in front pocket where they've always gone your whole dang life.

    Will get there don't you worry, i just can't believe i'll be the first with all those JL's running around? I may have to join that forum for some creative answers/solutions on this one then.

    Necessity is the mother of all invention.
     
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  6. sass JT

    sass JT Well-Known Member

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  7. OP
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    Jt-wrx

    Jt-wrx Well-Known Member

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    Now there’s a step in the right direction, thanks! Would have to see one to see if that at least gets the size down to the old ram plastic key fob, it could front pocket with a few keys, rounded edges etc.

    Any other options like this? Anything smaller?
     
  8. eaglerugby04

    eaglerugby04 Well-Known Member

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    My fob does the same thing, drive me crazy the way it is always opening! Also hate the size and mostly don't understand it. Held it next to my prius key the other day and this thing is 3 times the size of a wireless fob that is 7 model years older.

    Smaller fobs tend to hide the key inside. I have actually used the physical key on the jeep, but have yet to remember I time I did on the prius (which is good that thing is a pain to get out). The only logic I see is with the removable aspects of the doors all of the lockable items in the jeep need the key. I had the doors off the other day and locked 6 different keyed locks with the Jeep key. I still fell like they could have done something to make this thing smaller...

    Love the push button start though so much better than fumbling around trying to put a key in.
     
  9. OP
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    Jt-wrx

    Jt-wrx Well-Known Member

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    been reading a bunch on jl forums on this, a ton of guys would love the keyed ignition and seems equally as many like the button, i like simple, i don't walk away from a vehicle without seeing/hearing it lock, i like my stuff, i want to keep my stuff, i don't drive away from my garage until i see it's down, it's those last 2" when it goes up, so you stay and watch until it's all the way down, i have a lot of stuff in my garage, i like it and want to keep it, i don't walk away from my house without seeing and hearing it lock (i do have keypads for the kids and use them but pretty hard to lose those) ;)

    car keys dumping into a cup holder is not a solution, it's a cup holder not a brick fob holder, we used to have a holder for keys, it was in the dash right side of the steering wheel...ferfacksake. heading out on a nice day for a workout in lighter shorts and a t-shirt and having that monstrosity in your pocket any time you don't have a jacket handy is a joke, how tiny and simple a key is, even older fobs without rfid that unlocked/locked the car yet still used a tiny key

    for someone who values reliability and simplicity(what a jeep should be about) this thing is definitely a problem, as others have mentioned, and i can visualize, yeah here take the truck, i'll cut across here, you pick me up on the other side...oops, fob still in my pocket, hope they don't stall it, switch drivers at some point, get dropped off and other person goes to do an errand elsewhere...now what? no issues if the keys hanging where they supposed to hang, right of the steering wheel, in the dash, this push button random floating fob is a classic example of the human condition...fix problems we don't have only to open the door to a ton more we will need to create fixes for, all that theft you name it

    the whining over going hiking and get back and not look for keys, you're kidding right? you just put 6 hours of effort on a mountain somewhere and you're going to complain about finding your keys? now that's funny

    this will be a simple matter of finding out what all this rfid connects to, if its just that little ignition block behind the button and only related to starting then there will be work arounds, once we see how it works and why then should be easy enough to plot solutions

    maybe the aftermarket has finally seen enough threads about this to come up with a fix, the tazer could disable, the ignition block replaced with a key turn type and a much smaller fob also part of the kit....something like that, but having a free floating key for automobiles was never a good idea, the problems thats caused from innocent stuff mentioned to all the theft stuff...unbelievable that half of us think this was ever a good idea, really

    our clever solutions to problems we thought we had...only make more problems, when will we ever learn:headbang::giggle:

    the hilarity of this particular one is that not only is it way too big but it comes with a potential involuntary vasectomy button, huge miss FCA
     
  10. Oscar Indy

    Oscar Indy Moderator
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    Get the AJT key fob. Love it.

    Also screw keys. I had the proximity on my Tacoma and even did the Lexus credit card mod. ( Kept the key in my wallet) and loved it. Hated the truck so switched to an f150. The only thing I missed was the proximity key. Using an actual key is annoying and I hope I never have to again. Hell I want a keyless setup on all my rentals too. Keys are annoying.
     
  11. Russler

    Russler Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if you could install an after market alarm or remote starter solution from INSERT MFG HERE (Python, Viper, Crimestopper etc) I would think that system would replace your factory fob. Back in the day we would have to tape the key to the inside of the dash so the vehicle would see it but I am sure they have figured that out. Good luck with your search. Let us know if you figure something out.
     
  12. AggieJeep

    AggieJeep Well-Known Member

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    #12 Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
    Just an alternative idea, there is a specific slot in the middle of the cup holder for the fob. Always putting it there will maintain your desire to keep the key with the truck. Just think of it as your ignition switch. While this doesn’t provide a lockout like legacy ignition keys and switches, it does offer a specific place for the fob to support your habits without tinkering with wiring.

    This is a big honking fob. The plus side of that is that it is easier to find if dropped. My ‘12 JKUR has the traditional ignition switch and buttons for locks and remote start. Neither approach bothers me.

    Mine stays in my pocket. I love the proximity detection. Walk up, grab the door handle, open, climb in and start it up. I’m really starting to prefer the newer tech.

    Good luck with your solution.

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    Jt-wrx

    Jt-wrx Well-Known Member

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    i bet mopar would have a winner on it's hands if they created a keyed ignition kit for the JL/JT crowd, i think it would surprise people how many of them would get sold...

    thanks for the suggestions guys, will likely try them all and at some point will research this rfid delete option more in depth, bigger fish to fry currently in the project, so since what's in my head yet isn't available it will wait till i get the jeep where i can on my list before tackling this one further...maybe i'll just have to get a purse in the meantime:facepalm:
     
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  14. OP
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    Jt-wrx

    Jt-wrx Well-Known Member

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    Those are my initial thoughts as well, i wanted to do auto-start/alarm anyway, gets that fob replaced to a small rob you use to lock/unlock/start and keep your few keys that can fit any pocket, and really just leaved the rfid in center console, or 'taped behind the dash' as you say, or in this case, ziptied with industrial zipties to a main crossmember under there lol. Then all a guy needs is a hidden kill switch on the fuel pump line somewhere, or for simplicity sake a simple keyed ignition switch breaking said line. You wanna steal the truck, you gotta get under there and do some electrical work after first trying to figure out what zee fack...oh and then make sure you can drive a manual. :CWL:
     
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  15. OP
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    Jt-wrx

    Jt-wrx Well-Known Member

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    So there is a ton of stuff online about the downsides to push button/keyless ignitions. From the inconveniences people have with misplacing fob or driving away from it only to cab back to it later when they can't restart vehicle, to a bunch of deaths forgetting to push button to stop, car not in park etc., to carbon monoxide poisoning from quiet cars still running in garage or hybrids that came in on electric and left on so the engine starts up after going inside house to one where emergency response personnel have to try and find the fob at accident scenes so they can ensure vehicles are shut down for a variety of safety reasons etc. And...i'm probably missing more of the downsides to this 'wonderful technology'.

    So what's the downside to a keyed ignition again? Oh, the driver has to have accountability for the keys to operate that vehicle at all times, the vehicle cannot be operated otherwise. That's a bummer, it's not like a 4000-8000 lb machine you require testing and permission from government to operate due to the multitude of obvious risks to life and safety to the general public. You might have to dig your keys out of your pack after a hike or dig for them in your purse? What the absolute f.... ;)

    The aftermarket will likely find this gap in availability as the googles on this show a lot more than just the odd person thinks these are a bad idea. Every forum related to cars like this has multiple threads on the subject.

    Mopar, you read these forums? Push button start delete option please, i'll be first in line.
     
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