Diesel - Squeaking Noise

[Ulauma]

Good morning folks,

Been a while since I've been on this forum as life has been busy (isn't that the usual). I haven't been able to make much progress on the Gladiator project lately, but I started getting an odd squeaking on acceleration once it's warmed up. It also squeaks again after turning off the vehicle, which makes me think its not belt/pulley related. I've posted a short below... wondering if anyone else has had the same issue.

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[yrwins]

WOW.... I just get the same problem..... I was about to report it... and it the same, when it get moving , it disappears .

 

[Ulauma]

WOW.... I just get the same problem..... I was about to report it... and it the same, when it get moving , it disappears .

Dealership has it now so we'll see what it is. Buddy a mine is a heavy diesel mechanic and mentioned it sounds like the actuator on the turbo since it squeaks a few seconds after the engine is off entirely and you can hear it echoing through the exhaust, but we will see what they say.

I did notice the sound at low speeds, but once at normal speeds you cant hear it over the sound of the diesel.

 

[ZeeJay]

Well right off it almost could pass for heat shields on the exhaust or anywhere reacting to engine harmonics especially with heat saturation they will expand. It has a very “tinny” sound. Seems odd but I have battled heat shields before, and can be super annoying.

My only issue with that is after engine shut down, only one thing still moving on a diesel after shutdown and that is a turbo, turbine and impeller blades make a very similar “tinny” sound also and on a hot engine can depending on size of turbo continue to rotate 30 seconds plus after shutdown. Increased end play in shaft or bearing issue in center section causing lateral shaft movement will allow either to contact housing. Also a VGT issue also with reaction ring.

The only thing I don’t know is does the diesel have an electric fan? Or are they viscous coupled fan? I don’t know because I don’t have the diesel. But a viscous fan will continue to rotate after shutdown also. An electric fan would only if it is requested to be on either with coolant temp or A/C request. So fan might be a possibility.

 

[Ulauma]

Well right off it almost could pass for heat shields on the exhaust or anywhere reacting to engine harmonics especially with heat saturation they will expand. It has a very “tinny” sound. Seems odd but I have battled heat shields before, and can be super annoying.

My only issue with that is after engine shut down, only one thing still moving on a diesel after shutdown and that is a turbo, turbine and impeller blades make a very similar “tinny” sound also and on a hot engine can depending on size of turbo continue to rotate 30 seconds plus after shutdown. Increased end play in shaft or bearing issue in center section causing lateral shaft movement will allow either to contact housing. Also a VGT issue also with reaction ring.

The only thing I don’t know is does the diesel have an electric fan? Or are they viscous coupled fan? I don’t know because I don’t have the diesel. But a viscous fan will continue to rotate after shutdown also. An electric fan would only if it is requested to be on either with coolant temp or A/C request. So fan might be a possibility.

That is some awesome info, I appreciate it. A weird thing is the moment you press the start/stop button to turn it off... it squeaks really loud, and then up to 10-15 seconds later it squeaks one more time. I was parked at a store and was almost at the door and heard it squeak again which was quite weird. I can recreate it every time once it gets up to temp, it does not happen when its cold.

 

[ZeeJay]

That is some awesome info, I appreciate it. A weird thing is the moment you press the start/stop button to turn it off... it squeaks really loud, and then up to 10-15 seconds later it squeaks one more time. I was parked at a store and was almost at the door and heard it squeak again which was quite weird. I can recreate it every time once it gets up to temp, it does not happen when its cold.

What happens on a VGT turbo is at key on ECM sends request to the actuator, actuator ranges the sector gear to check sector gear and vane travel and limits. ECM sees the information based off vane position sensor imbedded in turbo and also via current feedback of actuator. The actuator can be powered up on some applications for as long 30 seconds after engine shut down also, right along with diverter, throttle and EGR valves. The actuator, sector gear, and vanes can be in constant state of motion. A/C draw, aftertreatment request, if engine is cold it will use turbo in part to bring up DOC temperature which in turn creates heat for SCR, this isn’t including driving it in which it will definitely be moving.

 

[Ulauma]

What happens on a VGT turbo is at key on ECM sends request to the actuator, actuator ranges the sector gear to check sector gear and vane travel and limits. ECM sees the information based off vane position sensor imbedded in turbo and also via current feedback of actuator. The actuator can be powered up on some applications for as long 30 seconds after engine shut down also, right along with diverter, throttle and EGR valves. The actuator, sector gear, and vanes can be in constant state of motion. A/C draw, aftertreatment request, if engine is cold it will use turbo in part to bring up DOC temperature which in turn creates heat for SCR, this isn’t including driving it in which it will definitely be moving.

Interesting stuff. Just spoke to the dealership, its the butterfly valve in the exhaust sticking. Its all under warranty. Another crappy emissions part that will eventually fail.

 

[Camaroboi13]

Interesting stuff. Just spoke to the dealership, its the butterfly valve in the exhaust sticking. Its all under warranty. Another crappy emissions part that will eventually fail.

Came here to say this exact same thing. Glad you got it figured out.

 

[ZeeJay]

Interesting stuff. Just spoke to the dealership, its the butterfly valve in the exhaust sticking. Its all under warranty. Another crappy emissions part that will eventually fail.

A valve in the exhaust….oh dear. I guess not having the ecodiesel I’m behind the ball here. So I am guessing it is post after treatment? EGR scavenging, sound dampening, used for SCR heat strategy, or some combination of all of that. Well at least they figured it out, definitely explains the “tinny” sound.

 

[Ulauma]

A valve in the exhaust….oh dear. I guess not having the ecodiesel I’m behind the ball here. So I am guessing it is post after treatment? EGR scavenging, sound dampening, used for SCR heat strategy, or some combination of all of that. Well at least they figured it out, definitely explains the “tinny” sound.

I'm not super familiar with modern diesels, but from what they were explaining to me. Its a valve that allows backpressure to build up for the EGR system. Its right after the turbo and before the DPF, so it open/closes depending on whether it wants to recirculate the gasses or pass it through the DPF. Thankfully being in Canada, we have a super long emissions warranty thats federally mandated on new diesels. So any issues with the emissions is covered for 8 years or 196,000km from new purchase. Otherwise, I've already passed the manufacture emissions warranty (60,000km).

Just more moving parts to break haha. I plan on deleting it as soon as its out of engine warranty (140,000km or 2027). I've added some extra steps to my maintenance to help keep the emissions system damage to the internals as minimal as I can without going full delete.

- Run EDT performance shot on every single tank
- Clean out the EGR sensors every oil change (The amount of soot thats in there everytime is shocking)
- Run 7,500km oil changes instead of manufacturer recommended 15,000km
- Plan on getting the intake manifold and EGR walnut cleaned maybe every year since its relatively inexpensive and will get all that soot out of there

If anyone else has any suggestions or recommendations that would be lovely.

 

[ZeeJay]

I'm not super familiar with modern diesels, but from what they were explaining to me. Its a valve that allows backpressure to build up for the EGR system. Its right after the turbo and before the DPF, so it open/closes depending on whether it wants to recirculate the gasses or pass it through the DPF. Thankfully being in Canada, we have a super long emissions warranty thats federally mandated on new diesels. So any issues with the emissions is covered for 8 years or 196,000km from new purchase. Otherwise, I've already passed the manufacture emissions warranty (60,000km).

Just more moving parts to break haha. I plan on deleting it as soon as its out of engine warranty (140,000km or 2027). I've added some extra steps to my maintenance to help keep the emissions system damage to the internals as minimal as I can without going full delete.

- Run EDT performance shot on every single tank
- Clean out the EGR sensors every oil change (The amount of soot thats in there everytime is shocking)
- Run 7,500km oil changes instead of manufacturer recommended 15,000km
- Plan on getting the intake manifold and EGR walnut cleaned maybe every year since its relatively inexpensive and will get all that soot out of there

If anyone else has any suggestions or recommendations that would be lovely.

Ive heard of these mythical valves but apparently in the circles I run in just don’t see them. Once upon a time a flapper in the exhaust was an exhaust brake and not for saving polar bears. That just doesn’t make sense at all in any way. EGR is scavenged off exhaust manifold and the vanes in a VGT turbo can close enough to literally stall the engine. I’ve seen mid range Cummins that will start….barely start and then immediately shutdown because the vanes failed in range closed so essentially engine can’t breathe. The idea an extra valve in the exhaust circuit to assist in scavenging is just flat ass stupid. As for ideas to help……all the EGR and after treatment shit needs to have a tragic accident and fall off some where…..
“Oh no!! I swear it was there yesterday…..just where oh where did it go….so tragic”

 

[Ulauma]

Ive heard of these mythical valves but apparently in the circles I run in just don’t see them. Once upon a time a flapper in the exhaust was an exhaust brake and not for saving polar bears. That just doesn’t make sense at all in any way. EGR is scavenged off exhaust manifold and the vanes in a VGT turbo can close enough to literally stall the engine. I’ve seen mid range Cummins that will start….barely start and then immediately shutdown because the vanes failed in range closed so essentially engine can’t breathe. The idea an extra valve in the exhaust circuit to assist in scavenging is just flat ass stupid. As for ideas to help……all the EGR and after treatment shit needs to have a tragic accident and fall off some where…..
“Oh no!! I swear it was there yesterday…..just where oh where did it go….so tragic”

I live in a place where we have zero emissions enforcement for non-commercial vehicles. The moment the engine warranty is up, it all will be magically gone Just dont want to void the warranty on the engine by doing that, only a few more years thankfully.

It does act as a mild exhaust brake as well which is nice I guess, but I'd rather just not have more moving parts to fail.

 

[ZeeJay]

I live in a place where we have zero emissions enforcement for non-commercial vehicles. The moment the engine warranty is up, it all will be magically gone Just dont want to void the warranty on the engine by doing that, only a few more years thankfully.

It does act as a mild exhaust brake as well which is nice I guess, but I'd rather just not have more moving parts to fail.

Bad part is after treatment and emissions is a massive portion of warranty concerns. Subsequently is main cause for secondary mechanical issues with engine such as but not limited to ring packing and cylinder failure, bearing wear on rotating assembly from oil temperature which is related to excess stress from trying to cool 800 degree exhaust just to shove soot back into engine. The excess heat saturation in turbo and on exhaust side of head from heat generated and retained. I could go on and on but hell yeah when warranty is up it all needs to have an “accident”

 

[Ulauma]

Bad part is after treatment and emissions is a massive portion of warranty concerns. Subsequently is main cause for secondary mechanical issues with engine such as but not limited to ring packing and cylinder failure, bearing wear on rotating assembly from oil temperature which is related to excess stress from trying to cool 800 degree exhaust just to shove soot back into engine. The excess heat saturation in turbo and on exhaust side of head from heat generated and retained. I could go on and on but hell yeah when warranty is up it all needs to have an “accident”

This is the debate I have with myself pretty much weekly at this point. I have thought about just doing an EGR delete and leaving the DPF/DEF system as the exhaust gas recirculating is what I presume is doing all the damage to the internals. Deleting the EGR + running a tuned ECU is pretty easy to revert... but I guess does the vehicle track if the ECU has been unplugged? It would be easy enough to reattach the EGR and swap out the ECU back to factory if I needed to go in for a warranty claim.

Eco Diesel Owners of Canada has a EGR + ECU package and you can do the full emissions delete afterwards.

 

[ZeeJay]

This is the debate I have with myself pretty much weekly at this point. I have thought about just doing an EGR delete and leaving the DPF/DEF system as the exhaust gas recirculating is what I presume is doing all the damage to the internals. Deleting the EGR + running a tuned ECU is pretty easy to revert... but I guess does the vehicle track if the ECU has been unplugged? It would be easy enough to reattach the EGR and swap out the ECU back to factory if I needed to go in for a warranty claim.

Eco Diesel Owners of Canada has a EGR + ECU package and you can do the full emissions delete afterwards.

Highly probable ECM will real time tracks engine hours or mileage and possibly both, so yes there very well might be issue with reconciling those, but would anyone look?? IDK. The EGR itself adds heat saturation and cooling demand to the cooling package via EGR cooler, whilst introducing soot back into engine. That in itself is hard on internals, now if a curve ball is thrown and soot becomes oily or paste like it will just pack rings and then it’s over.
After treatment which consists of DOC(think catalytic converter….sort of), then the DPF, then Decomp tube or chamber and then finally SCR. First step is to heat DOC up which is a strategy based of ambient outside air temp. So when you look at dash to see out side temp…..so is the ECM. With DOC cooking now that heat passes down to heat up DPF and SCR. Essentially every after treatment step is a high heat game from start to finish. A regen is just more heat piled on top of heat. All of that heat is created via fueling and VGT which guess what… adds heat at the engine. Engine adds ridiculous amounts of fuel to bring heat up while using EGR to cool it off and knock NoX down, while at the same time obscene amounts of exhaust heat will be stored near engine because it can’t get rid of it fast enough through DOC/DPF/SCR. It’s a vicious gang fight with the poor engine right in the middle of it. Then for salt in the wound along comes the engine oil cooler trying to shed heat into an already taxed cooling package, then of course the transmission wants to play in the reindeer games. Then if all of that’s not enough, because everything I just said is baked into any new diesel cake along comes some shabby inefficient design and things get really shitty. There 100 other angles happening but that a quick and dirty on the subject.

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