Factory Service Manual

[ShadowsPapa]

And of course there's other conspiracy theories you believe, too. And you can absolutely prove beyond doubt that's THE reason and no other.

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[PlayfulBird]

And of course there's other conspiracy theories you believe, too. And you can absolutely prove beyond doubt that's THE reason and no other.

"Tocotocotoco" ... theres no unmarked black helicopter over my house... said no one ever

 

[Hootbro]

$50K+ vehicle that costs $60 to fill the tank and many thousands in mods but $37 is a cost too high. Funny.

 

[Rob_R]

$50K+ vehicle that costs $60 to fill the tank and many thousands in mods but $37 is a cost too high. Funny.

Stellantis sure thinks this service is funny as they laugh all the way to the bank every time I need to refer to something in the service manual. I understand the argument of timely data. However, I have been purchasing factory service manuals for every vehicle I have owned since 1976 and I never regretted not having access to this timely information. This is just my personal opinion on the subject and nothing more.

Now onto better things.....I am about to leave the house to pickup my Gladiator order!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

$50K+ vehicle that costs $60 to fill the tank and many thousands in mods but $37 is a cost too high. Funny.

Dang it, @Hootbro, you beat me to it again.
Yes, 50K+ to buy, not to mention the cost of the money, 14-17 mpg, 6K in tires and lift and 2K+ for shocks, dozens of mods for appearance's sake, then take it out and abuse it, and the cost of information is just too much.

I've worked where tech docs were generated/created, had friends in the business and have done it myself. It ain't cheap- then there's the cost of maintaining and revisioning those documents. Any time an engineer says boo, the document teams have to pay attention. The software to handle documentation revisioning isn't cheap (or easy to use if you use mickysoft junk)

Today the systems are more complex than they were even 5 years ago - it takes whole teams, whole departments of dedicated people to try to keep up. Every single wire or nut and bolt or torque spec must be accounted for.
I'd love to see how many reems of paper it would take to print the TSMs for a JT.
Then when in the middle of a model year they decide to move the TPMS system to another module, geesh, here we go again.

 

[Hootbro]

Stellantis sure thinks this service is funny as they laugh all the way to the bank every time I need to refer to something in the service manual. I understand the argument of timely data. However, I have been purchasing factory service manuals for every vehicle I have owned since 1976 and I never regretted not having access to this timely information. This is just my personal opinion on the subject and nothing more.

Now onto better things.....I am about to leave the house to pickup my Gladiator order!

I understand the sentiment. I was the same way but my last complete factory service manual I ever bought (used) was for a 2001 Chevrolet Cavalier. About as simple of car one could get before CAN BUS took over. It was like 4 volumes the size of NYC phone books when those use to be printed. I could not imagine what a modern vehicle service manual would be today printed.

I am with you on the old man yells at clouds fist pumping, but we are just not in that world anymore and never going back to it.

Like @ShadowsPapa mentions, there still is a cost to producing and updating tech data. FCA/Stellantis going to a subscription base model of it is just the industry trend. It was a courtesy they even offer it either in print in the past or digitally online to end user consumers. It always has been geared for the dealership and independent shop and that is what the business model is based on.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Like @ShadowsPapa mentions, there still is a cost to producing and updating tech data. FCA/Stellantis going to a subscription base model of it is just the industry trend. It was a courtesy they even offer it either in print in the past or digitally online to end user consumers. It always has been geared for the dealership and independent shop and that is what the business model is based on.

And that dates way back into the 60s. That's how service manuals from the car makers have always been.
TSMs going back that far always assumed the tech/mechanic already knew certain things. They don't explain basics unless it's unique or different. They leave out a lot - and many processes are shown using the factory recommended or supplied tools.
Look in the transmission sections of Technical Service Manuals going back 60+ years, they show and talk about processes using Kent-Moore or Miller tools or others. There's no explanation of basics. If you aren't already working in a shop - it may not make sense to the reader.
About 1960 or so, they stopped explaining and showing the casual user or owner how to set tappet clearances, re-torque head bolts and so on in the owners manual and left it all up to shop people. That's who the books were aimed at. Not most ordinary owners. They may have decided it's best to not encourage them LOL

I'm experienced and college trained and there are still sections in the various Mitchell subscription books I have from years ago that leave enough out I have to "figure it out" or reach back into my experience to find the way there.
They aren't "step-by-step" how-to guides, they are there to point out specifics, unique things and so on.
That being said - they are priced like many other tools.
I'll spend hundreds for a good torque wrench or $50+ for a socket that is only used on certain vehicles - what's the difference in a book? It's a tool for the pro. That's how they are treated and priced.
I spent good money on an O2 sensor socket for specific circumstances, I can't be afraid to spend money on a book that could be used countless times for a vehicle I own.

$6,000 new car in 1977 a $50 book seemed like a lot. Today take that 6,000 x 10 and that 50 x 10 but add to that because the technical aspects of the books today cover wiring diagrams that make the wiring for a 1970s car look like the wiring involved in a home crystal radio set. (yeah, showing my age!)
Today the schematics and wiring diagrams alone are probably as big, if printed, as the whole manual on a 1960s car.

I don't find it easy to find and spend the money - I still cringe, I still have to wait until I can afford it, but I understand it.

Well, I suppose that poor horse is ready to make glue out of now - he's been beat so bad his hide can't be good for much of anything.

 

[Badunit]

$50K+ vehicle that costs $60 to fill the tank and many thousands in mods but $37 is a cost too high. Funny.

Funny? Not even a little. $37 for 3 days of use is ridiculous for a backyard mechanic. It is $37 every time you need to look at it because backyard repairs come along at random times, not in compact 3-day periods. $37/use is pretty steep.

Or let's compare the old $120 purchase to the $1800/year subscription (so we have full access all year long like with the purchase). Multiply $1800 by as little as 15 years of ownership = $27,000 for a manual that used to cost $120 and be good for a lifetime.

Yes, the cost is too high.

 

[NellyTooTall]

Money scam no doubt.

Eliminate DIYers and small shops, push repairs to dealerships.

 

[Hootbro]

Funny? Not even a little. $37 for 3 days of use is ridiculous for a backyard mechanic. It is $37 every time you need to look at it because backyard repairs come along at random times, not in compact 3-day periods. $37/use is pretty steep.

I guess people miss the post were I said you can print to PDF the vast majority of what you will ever need for shade tree work in that 3 day subscription.

If one is paying and logging in that 3 days subscription and only saving one job, then that is on them.

Funny thing is I have already been hit up by people by PM just wanting what I have already paid for and put in the work for free.

 

[Badunit]

Nope, didn't miss that pages can be printed. What you are doing by printing pages for future other jobs is a workaround to not having unlimited access to your own manual. If you pay $37 enough times and spend enough time and effort going page-to-page and printing you'll have the entire manual that you once could have bought for less money and no effort.

 

[NellyTooTall]

The question is… how many hours would it take to print it all to pdf..

 

[Lunentucker]

The question is… how many hours would it take to print it all to pdf..

A very long time, if you're using the USB Mopar manual. There is no "print all"., and it's very very very tiered in design. A lot of trees.

 

[salvino]

I am interested in finding out if there is a factory service manual available yet. I always buy factory manuals which are specific to vehicle. Does anybody maybe know a source as of yet. I tried my dealer's part department to no avail.

I found a complete downloadable manual for $100 on Factory-Manuals.com. It's about 650MB but is seems very complete. I wouldn't want a printer version, too big and one would never use most of it.

 

[Almost]

I skipped some pages so not sure if it was mentioned, but it looks like you get Haynes manual for a JL at least which should cover about 80% of it for us Gladiator folks. Not sure if it includes any specifics for us Ecodiesel owners though which would be what I'm mostly interested in. The preview doesn't let you dig that deep.

Jeep Wrangler (JL) 2018 Haynes Repair Manuals & Guides

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