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Gladiator Much Harder to Work on Than Previous Models

LostWoods

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people dont like change. The JK has been around for so long and is apparently so easy to work on. People are thinking ahead to how the new technology will affect their ability to work on their rigs. After the John Deere case it really is a brave new world in DIY and companies like FCA viewing us as renters of their property rather than owners
I get that, but these are also the same people who will ask why worry about replacing the head unit? beacuse they actually think FCA will be providing updates 10 years down the road for CarPlay and Android Auto. Go compare infotainment over the last 10 years and I'll be shocked if it even runs cleanly in 5 years let alone integrates the latest features.

The John Deere thing happened because it's a limited market with customers who don't really have a voice. The automotive industry is using deterrence instead of straight fighting because there's so many alternatives and the backlash would be huge.

Either way, it will ultimately be the future and it will likely come in alongside autonomous driving and electric powertrains. Honestly, I'm ok with the average person being locked out at that point because, to quote a great mind, just imagine how stupid the average person is and then remember that half of them are stupider than that. The last thing I want is some shadetree mechanic toying with lidar or a 400V battery pack and shocking the everloving piss out of himself.
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PyrPatriot

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I get that, but these are also the same people who will ask why worry about replacing the head unit? beacuse they actually think FCA will be providing updates 10 years down the road for CarPlay and Android Auto. Go compare infotainment over the last 10 years and I'll be shocked if it even runs cleanly in 5 years let alone integrates the latest features.

The John Deere thing happened because it's a limited market with customers who don't really have a voice. The automotive industry is using deterrence instead of straight fighting because there's so many alternatives and the backlash would be huge.

Either way, it will ultimately be the future and it will likely come in alongside autonomous driving and electric powertrains. Honestly, I'm ok with the average person being locked out at that point because, to quote a great mind, just imagine how stupid the average person is and then remember that half of them are stupider than that. The last thing I want is some shadetree mechanic toying with lidar or a 400V battery pack and shocking the everloving piss out of himself.
I am more freedom oriented than that. Let people do what they want. If they hurt themselves it’s their own fault.
Companies actually making it harder to work on your own vehicle is nefarious
 

ACAD_Cowboy

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Based on my driving habbits and your math, that puts us at year +15 whereupon i will be far less inclined to do it myself anyway.

Point Im getting at is the mean time between failure out weighs the hassles of doing it. Prior to VW popping the bed I was in deep with TDI and there were some perverse packing going on there.
 

ACAD_Cowboy

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Who here remembers what ultimately caused the failure of three mile island?

Engineers who lost sight of the man/machine interface and devised a system so complicated that after a while, no one really understood the whole thing anymore.

Contrast this against the U2 program where 50 years on it is still running bicycle landing gear with wing pogos and despite numerous design evolutions and project improvent programs, they remain because they simply work.

The most advanced electronics in an A10 is the smart phone in the pilots pocket and the aircraft itself is not that far removed from a 1960's tractor because thats all it needs to do its job.

We are going to pass a gate soon where there will be very little the operator can do to affect the core function of the devices, not because of a lack of ability but a lack of access. Dealer service is already showing this with the Cummins Rams, there are problems happening that even the "experts" are at a loss to explain. Yay compartmentalized silo engineering!
 

FLACRACKER

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Hat's off to the shade tree mechanics guys out there! Looking to get an Overland soon. Over the years have torqued my share of nuts and bolts. Now at 65, retiring, I think I will just stick to changing the fluids though the grease monkey in me still resides. Best wishes to all !
 

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LostWoods

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I am more freedom oriented than that. Let people do what they want. If they hurt themselves it’s their own fault.
Companies actually making it harder to work on your own vehicle is nefarious
Oh I'm generally very libertarian, but when you have unqualified people playing with sensors that identify where cars are around you for autonomous driving, you've stepped into doing harm to others territory. I would argue that toying with battery packs aren't much different because you're rolling around with a literal bomb if you do something the right wrong way.

I'm not saying this is imminent (far from it), but cars seem to be one of those things that entirely unqualified people will service or repair and nobody bats an eye at it. This isn't the era of pure hydraulic brakes and simple engine electrical anymore. We will eventually reach the point where they are such a specialized piece of technology that only credentialed individuals should be servicing them. Frankly, after spending several years wrenching and managing a shop and seeing what people do to their own cars... that shit puts everyone around them at risk.
 

whiteglad

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I agree that the engine compartment is crowded. However, a lot of stuff like differentials are easily accessed. The starter was beefed up a lot to withstand the start-stop abuse. I hit the override button every time after hitting the start button. so my starter should last.
 
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I haven't worked on mine yet, other than putting the lift on, and doing some intel and recon work studying the suspension and underside of the JTR while it was on the lift, and I'd have to say, the new 3.6 seems a better design to me than the JK 3.8 was... I had to replace the starter on an old room mate's 2007 JK 4-door 2wd (pile of crap...Not all of them, just his). And that was the hardest damn thing I've ever tried to do...I couldn't get my hands and arms in there. I had to call my brother to be able to get his skinny arms and hands in there to get to the bolts. Worst design EVER! Hopefully the 3.6 V6 is in a better spot not so damn close to the frame rails and everything else.

Had another buddy who had a 2007 JK 4-door 4x4, and his had so many damn problems even after putting a whole brand new reman'd long-block engine in it, new injectors, new exhaust manifolds, new gaskets, new everything, and it was still leaking oil, still leaking exhaust gaskets, fuel pressure leaking down, transmission shifter linkage and 4x4 linkage popping off all the time (common problem), steering from hell (death-wobble, wandering, oversteer, etc...), and much more. I spent LOTS of hours helping him turn wrenches and diagnosing problems on that damn thing.

It really turned me off of ever buying a JK model (that had not already been LS or Hemi swapped), and a Jeep in general, until I did plenty of research on the JL models and saw that they fixed and redesigned a bunch of things, and put a whole new motor in them. So when I heard about the JT coming out, I was interested, but not serious. Then I drove one, and all that changed. I have MUCH more faith in my JTR being a higher-quality product than the JK models ever were.
 

Factoid

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Oh I'm generally very libertarian, but when you have unqualified people playing with sensors that identify where cars are around you for autonomous driving, you've stepped into doing harm to others territory. I would argue that toying with battery packs aren't much different because you're rolling around with a literal bomb if you do something the right wrong way.

I'm not saying this is imminent (far from it), but cars seem to be one of those things that entirely unqualified people will service or repair and nobody bats an eye at it. This isn't the era of pure hydraulic brakes and simple engine electrical anymore. We will eventually reach the point where they are such a specialized piece of technology that only credentialed individuals should be servicing them. Frankly, after spending several years wrenching and managing a shop and seeing what people do to their own cars... that shit puts everyone around them at risk.
Perhaps more eminent than you think. Along with that comes the inability to wrap your hands around a steering wheel or a go pedal to stomp.

I blame gen Z, who’s with me?!
 
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Perhaps more eminent than you think. Along with that comes the inability to wrap your hands around a steering wheel or a go pedal to stomp.

I blame gen Z, who’s with me?!
This is why I didn't buy a JTR that had all that nanny-shit on it. The only options mine had that I wanted was a Rubicon with the Freedom Top, AUX switches, mud-tires, and the 8.4" Navi Alpine system...And that's exactly what I got. :like:

I don't need backup or parking sensors, or self-adjusting cruise control, or an automated parallel parking system, or automatic windshield wipers, or a self-driving system. If someone needs any of that shit, they shouldn't be allowed to operate a motorized vehicle on public roads. Personal opinion.
 

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PyrPatriot

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Perhaps more eminent than you think. Along with that comes the inability to wrap your hands around a steering wheel or a go pedal to stomp.

I blame gen Z, who’s with me?!
I am with you. Soon it will be like the book series by Asimov
 

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mazeppa

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Anyone who wants to complain about a starter location should try replacing one on a Northstar V8. Difficult placements are not new and are sometimes essential to achieve an end goal.

4.7 L Toyota Tundra Starter, must be a shared design between the two manufactures :angry:

Jeep Gladiator Gladiator Much Harder to Work on Than Previous Models IMG_1078
 

SwampNut

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I'm going with the extended warranty and plan never to work on it.

Every car gets more complicated and harder to work on, every time. The JT/JL got far more complicated and crowded than the JK. That's the cost of "progress," however you measure that.
 
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Wouldn't you like to know.
people dont like change. The JK has been around for so long and is apparently so easy to work on. People are thinking ahead to how the new technology will affect their ability to work on their rigs. After the John Deere case it really is a brave new world in DIY and companies like FCA viewing us as renters of their property rather than owners
I agreed... I like how on the JK I can fix the issues. I talked to someone in the local club and they said its actually easy to work on once you get down in it. so we shall see.
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