Gladiator Q4 2019 sales numbers out - thoughts?

[BAT]

Well let's look at this from a business perspective. Mark Allen from the beginning has said that they wanted Gladiator to be in a class of its own. And that's what it is. Why compare it to the Tacoma, which is objectively the worst truck in the segment in every single category? Tacoma has the worst powertrain, drum brakes, plastic box, horrible interior space, 15 year old platform, outdated technology, low payload and towing numbers, and a history of horrible recalls and in the previous generation they were even buying back entire trucks. Why on earth would you use that truck as your benchmark?

The real problem is that people don't see the value in the Gladiator. They see the sticker price and run away. They don't take the time to dive into the fact that Gladiator has the largest brakes in the class, the strongest frame in the class, the most 2nd row legroom in the class, the highest gasoline towing capacity in the class, the most offroad capability you can get, the only truck in the country with a convertible top and removable doors, the only truck in the segment with a ZF-based world class transmission, the only truck in the segment that has an engine that has been on Ward's 10 Best Engines list in multiple years, etc. etc. etc. You get SO much more with Gladiator than you do with any other midsize truck you can buy. But..... none of that matters because shoppers see the sticker price and run.

Which brings me to my next point. FCA screwed this up because they should have put entry level Sports on the lots FIRST. Get a thick shipment of $35-40k models on the lots across the nation first. THEN start weaning in your higher priced trims. Instead, what they did was the opposite. Every dealership in America is stacked up with $55-63k trucks and so the average consumer now believes that this is a $60k truck. It was horrible marketing on FCA's part.

At the end of the day, it's a sad story because Gladiator is so misunderstood. This truck has payload and towing numbers that rival full size trucks, combined with more off-road prowess and more fun factor and a LOT more resale value.

They screwed the pooch in many was on the Gladiator. They loaded up the lots with trucks that had nothing anyone wanted in them. They also could have simplified packages and added many things that should be standard on most any car or truck today but they are nickel and diming each option. They went after the people who they knew would pay almost any price regardless and they got those on board now its up to them to try to pull in others which they could have by offering a lot more Sport and Sport S with Max Tow decently loaded and decent price. If you do not absolutly want a jeep truck then the casual person is as you say going to go on the lot and see a jeep for $60K with decent offering and then they are gonna show them a Ram loaded with goodies that drives like dream and that person on the fence likely jumped at the full size loaded for way less money. There are those who are going to buy a jeep and those that regardless will by Toyota cause well that is all they buy. Same with Ford. I know guys they will not buy anything but a Ford and same with Toyota. Jeeps work now that the have to have a jeep truck are on board is to get others into them. The only way to do that I think now is change the build out packages being sent to dealers and change the price.

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[Swatstar10]

16,000 is a terrible number. Just wait 4 months until lots are overloaded with Sport and Overland models because FCA is pumping them out and not selling.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Has anyone seen any advertising for Gladiator? I saw a couple prior to Christmas, mixed in among all the Amazon and Walmart holiday commercials - they were not well done, they did not grab attention. In fact I would have missed them but my wife said "hey, look, finally they are advertising" - she agrees that we'd not have even known they existed at all - period - if not having seen ONE in a showroom.
The others on that lot were hidden in among the other Jeeps. there were none right out front in your face. One in a showroom, the rest hidden, no marketing campaign.
The ads were lame, ho-hum, not flashy, not loud. The damn politicians are doing a better job than FCA at getting any words out there.
Come on, Jeep - if you want to sell you have to let people know the bloody product even EXISTS.

How did JT owners here even learn of these things?
You don't see them on the road - I've seen THREE - two in parking lots, one from out of state on I35 headed south several weeks ago. (it was raining so it wasn't easy to spot)

I don't see these cutting into the mid-size truck market. Not really. They will be sold to Jeep people who want to haul cargo or tow - at least in Iowa. Our market is very different here. Jeeps are daily drivers. Not work vehicles, not used off-road around here. (there's no places to go with 'em!)

But back to my point - how did YOU learn of these? The massive flashy attention-getting TV marketing campaign from FCA? (said sarcastically because there is no such thing)

We are blasted, inundated with ads from Honda, Toyota (wow, they rule the airwaves here- Toyotathon this and that, a Toyota ad every 15 minutes here), Ford - Chevy - you can't watch a TV show without one of them, even both, one after the other, advertising.
Where's Jeep in this? Oh, the Grand Cherokee we see now and then, but those sell themselves here.

 

[Gunrunner72]

What are the chances the Gladiator becomes a single production year run? Seems like a waste but would make those out there fairly valuable down the road.

16,000 is a terrible number. Just wait 4 months until lots are overloaded with Sport and Overland models because FCA is pumping them out and not selling.

Even if the numbers are terrible, they'll likely keep it in production until the wrangler gets it's next major overhaul. I do agree that there will probably be some DEEP discounts start popping up to move Sport and Overland models. Plenty of them already sitting around on lots locally. Almost all of the JTRs I've seen come into the local lots are already sold on arrival. I've always thought the JT would be a very "niche" vehicle, appealing mostly to those that already love the Jeep brand/lifestyle. Outside of us, it gets really hard to justify the sticker that comes with the JT if you're NEEDING a truck. Why? You can get a lot more truck for the same money elsewhere. If you're wanting a dedicated trail rig, the Wrangler makes much better sense for less money. Does the JT do both? Yeah. But, it doesn't do both as good as the others do them specifically.

 

[shrinkhead]

it's a funny thing as I had the Rivian R1T pre-ordered for months looking for an adventure vehicle that is a truck. My raptor was just too big to be useful on trails or overlanding. I use the truck bed to haul bikes, gear with tent and a Christmas tree once a year plus mulch occasionally. It's not a work truck it's a fun truck or lifestyle truck like somebody else said. The gladiator is perfect for that and a cheap one at that with it running on 87 octane and parts being so readily available. I do have a sense Jeep does not fully understand their audience for this truck yet as it's not my buddies who run traditional pickups. I also think if more people would actually get into one they'd sell even more to first time truck buyers.

 

[futzin']

Nice to see a dispassionate discussion on the subject of price. Good stuff.

 

[Swatstar10]

Even if the numbers are terrible, they'll likely keep it in production until the wrangler gets it's next major overhaul. I do agree that there will probably be some DEEP discounts start popping up to move Sport and Overland models. Plenty of them already sitting around on lots locally. Almost all of the JTRs I've seen come into the local lots are already sold on arrival. I've always thought the JT would be a very "niche" vehicle, appealing mostly to those that already love the Jeep brand/lifestyle. Outside of us, it gets really hard to justify the sticker that comes with the JT if you're NEEDING a truck. Why? You can get a lot more truck for the same money elsewhere. If you're wanting a dedicated trail rig, the Wrangler makes much better sense for less money. Does the JT do both? Yeah. But, it doesn't do both as good as the others do them specifically.

I realize my opinion isn’t worth anything, but I think the biggest mistake Jeep made with this truck, outside of the high price, is the small, odd shaped rear door. Yes, I realize it saved FCA money since it shares the door with the Wrangler, but it doesn’t fit the look of a truck.

 

[Mark Doiron]

... Traditional truck buyers equate value as the hp/torque/towing etc per $. ....

You mean it's not sheets of plywood? Seriously, most buyers of the Gladiator will not be traditional truck buyers. Heck, I'm not even sure that most buyers of pickups are traditional buyers. It seems to me that they're more interested in posing around town in their well-manicured, lifted-to-the-sky pickups than hauling a load of cattle to market.

Please, I don't want to see Gladiators abused like this ...

 

[Gunrunner72]

I realize my opinion isn’t worth anything, but I think the biggest mistake Jeep made with this truck, outside of the high price, is the small, odd shaped rear door. Yes, I realize it saved FCA money since it shares the door with the Wrangler, but it doesn’t fit the look of a truck.

Your's is worth as much as anyone else's here! I think along with the cost savings, it was done to help the perceived bodyline/side view of the truck. To me Gladiators look REALLY long and somewhat disproportionate until they get a little lift and/or some meatier tires beneath them. And, I've heard several other casual onlookers say the same thing. That being said, I still think the look holds very true to the Jeep brand and heritage.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Even if the numbers are terrible, they'll likely keep it in production until the wrangler gets it's next major overhaul. I do agree that there will probably be some DEEP discounts start popping up to move Sport and Overland models. Plenty of them already sitting around on lots locally. Almost all of the JTRs I've seen come into the local lots are already sold on arrival. I've always thought the JT would be a very "niche" vehicle, appealing mostly to those that already love the Jeep brand/lifestyle. Outside of us, it gets really hard to justify the sticker that comes with the JT if you're NEEDING a truck. Why? You can get a lot more truck for the same money elsewhere. If you're wanting a dedicated trail rig, the Wrangler makes much better sense for less money. Does the JT do both? Yeah. But, it doesn't do both as good as the others do them specifically.

For some folks a Swiss Army knife will do just as well as a full set of professional tools. Only need to open a bottle once a year? Why have a dedicated bottle opener.
I used to require a full size truck - I used to require a 3/4 tone 4x4. Then I downsized things a bit and got by with a half ton 4x4. Now I don't haul a tractor, and haven't hauled my antique engines anywhere for a while, and got a lighter car hauler and realize - hey, even this will haul plywood or OSB - maybe not a ton of landscape blocks but I have a trailer for that.
I don't need the BEST off-road vehicle or the BEST truck, I want something that does a bit of both - pretty darned well.
Instead of TWO vehicles, I have one - may even end up selling my WJ since this JT does so well with MPG and comfort and safety. (although the WJ is a better winter vehicle in Iowa with the full-time 4 wheel drive and better weight distribution)

 

[Swatstar10]

Your's is worth as much as anyone else's here! I think along with the cost savings, it was done to help the perceived bodyline/side view of the truck. To me Gladiators look REALLY long and somewhat disproportionate until they get a little lift and/or some meatier tires beneath them. And, I've heard several other casual onlookers say the same thing. That being said, I still think the look holds very true to the Jeep brand and heritage.

I think it would not look as long if the rear door filled up the cab more fully.

 

[PyrPatriot]

these numbers are good by any measure for a “lifestyle” vehicle.

I mean, maybe. The Honda Element as an obscure car beat the JT’s sales numbers. It only sold about 300k stateside for the 8 or so years it was marketed

 

[BLK HOLE]

They clearly expected some level of these sales given they expect to also make the Dakota on the same line.

Personally I couldn't care less...I only cared if they made at least one for me to buy. I'll never sell it so resale isn't important to me and parts are easy enough to come by given its relationship with the Wrangler.

 

[CAL32]

To add a bit more data- Toyota sold over 20,000 tacomas in december alone...

hard to compare a truck that's been around for decades to a brand new run but point taken...i think the Gladiator is just starting to ramp up, once incentives kick in they will start moving. Look at the growth of the Wrangler back in 2007 when the brand new 4 Door was introduced for a better comp. Sales were up 48% from 2006 to 2007 in a year thanks to the new 4 door model. Granted the Gladiator will cannibalize some 4 door Wrangler growth but I think in 12 months your going to see some serious growth in Gladiator sales that should put a dent in Tacoma sales. Full disclosure I own a 4Runner as well and love it...

What are the chances the Gladiator becomes a single production year run? Seems like a waste but would make those out there fairly valuable down the road.

lol we could only be so lucky...

 

[Gunrunner72]

For some folks a Swiss Army knife will do just as well as a full set of professional tools. Only need to open a bottle once a year? Why have a dedicated bottle opener.
I used to require a full size truck - I used to require a 3/4 tone 4x4. Then I downsized things a bit and got by with a half ton 4x4. Now I don't haul a tractor, and haven't hauled my antique engines anywhere for a while, and got a lighter car hauler and realize - hey, even this will haul plywood or OSB - maybe not a ton of landscape blocks but I have a trailer for that.
I don't need the BEST off-road vehicle or the BEST truck, I want something that does a bit of both - pretty darned well.
Instead of TWO vehicles, I have one - may even end up selling my WJ since this JT does so well with MPG and comfort and safety. (although the WJ is a better winter vehicle in Iowa with the full-time 4 wheel drive and better weight distribution)

I agree. That's why I ordered one. I've got a SuperDuty for the heavy lifting and just wanted something "fun" that I could still haul stuff in and do some weekend overlanding trips in.

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