Is ethanol good for the Gladiator?

[Deadeye]

You are talking pure stuff there.
If it doesn't damage the cheap aluminum carburetors and other parts of lawn mower engines, you think it will damage the alloys used in car engines?
My JD lawn tractors have had Kawasaki engines, aluminum, including fuel system parts, no troubles.
I've owned my SX4 since 2007 - ethanol.
I have yet to see even etching or pitting from ethanol in anything.

Ethanol doesn't degrade metal, but it is much more aggressive than standard gasoline on plastic and some rubbers. Specifically, it will breakdown and swell some specific kinds of viton, which is generally one of the most common and best materials for gaskets that are exposed to petroleum products. So anything plastic or rubber may be at risk, including fuel lines, gaskets, or plastic components that are exposed to the fuel directly.

However, there are already alternatives available, including alternate Viton formulations that are resistant to ethanol. These materials are already widely in place in the modern vehicles, but there was a period in the 90s and even early 00s where this wasn't the case. So if you have anything made in at least the last decade, that is not an issue.

Ethanol also tends to run hotter (and cleaner) and potentially is not as lubricating as straight fuel. Again, not an issue if this was accounted for in the engineering of the engine, which has absolutely been in place for atl east a decade. It can also be achieved with additives, so any of your reputable refineries are doing that. As a general rule, these components were already over engineered with a safety factor, so the real world doesn't see a lot of catastrophic failures.

Ethanol does break down into some gunky/gelatinous components over time, and can potentially clog filters, etc. To your point, I don't like any fuel sitting in my tank for long periods, regardless of chemistry. There are stabilizing additives if you need to do this.

The Potential Energy of ethanol is a real issue. Its been a while since I did the math, so it may not be true with the current fuel economy, but from a gallon stand point it is definitely cheaper. From a cost per mile perspective, its not necessarily the case. But it isn't a huge difference and the convenience factor of going to a nearby gas station typically more than offsets the pennies you might save.

I am not going to even get in to the politics of it though. Its definitely a government subsidized industry. And there are 1000 different studies on the full net environmental impacts, and they all conflict. By the time you account for land impact and soil conservancy, etc., it gets very cloudy. Its a very complex situation, in that regard.

Especially now, there is a pretty solid argument for being able to subsidize our normal gasoline sources with an artificial source.

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[JET_83]

Ethanol doesn't degrade metal, but it is much more aggressive than standard gasoline on plastic and some rubbers. Specifically, it will breakdown and swell some specific kinds of viton, which is generally one of the most common and best materials for gaskets that are exposed to petroleum products. So anything plastic or rubber may be at risk, including fuel lines, gaskets, or plastic components that are exposed to the fuel directly.

However, there are already alternatives available, including alternate Viton formulations that are resistant to ethanol. These materials are already widely in place in the modern vehicles, but there was a period in the 90s and even early 00s where this wasn't the case. So if you have anything made in at least the last decade, that is not an issue.

Ethanol also tends to run hotter (and cleaner) and potentially is not as lubricating as straight fuel. Again, not an issue if this was accounted for in the engineering of the engine, which has absolutely been in place for atl east a decade. It can also be achieved with additives, so any of your reputable refineries are doing that. As a general rule, these components were already over engineered with a safety factor, so the real world doesn't see a lot of catastrophic failures.

Ethanol does break down into some gunky/gelatinous components over time, and can potentially clog filters, etc. To your point, I don't like any fuel sitting in my tank for long periods, regardless of chemistry. There are stabilizing additives if you need to do this.

The Potential Energy of ethanol is a real issue. Its been a while since I did the math, so it may not be true with the current fuel economy, but from a gallon stand point it is definitely cheaper. From a cost per mile perspective, its not necessarily the case. But it isn't a huge difference and the convenience factor of going to a nearby gas station typically more than offsets the pennies you might save.

I am not going to even get in to the politics of it though. Its definitely a government subsidized industry. And there are 1000 different studies on the full net environmental impacts, and they all conflict. By the time you account for land impact and soil conservancy, etc., it gets very cloudy. Its a very complex situation, in that regard.

Especially now, there is a pretty solid argument for being able to subsidize our normal gasoline sources with an artificial source.

good read, that's why I avoid ethanol whenever I can

 

[MPMB]

the manual recommends top-tier gas, I never said anything about the manual saying 100% gas ethanol free, just saying fuel with no ethanol is better fuel.

Yeah, ya did.

nope, not good for your fuel lines either, I always us top tier 100% gas since that's what's recommended in the manual.

You are responsible for your half of the communication cycle.

 

[JET_83]

Yeah, ya did.



You are responsible for your half of the communication cycle.

you missed "top tier gas"

 

[JET_83]

no reason to be a d

 

[ShadowsPapa]

you missed "top tier gas"

LOL - top tier can be ethanol blend fuel.
Go look it up! Top tier is actually spec'd having ethanol - no less than 8%. That means in the end, toptier is actually likely to be E10.
You comment on things you don't have a history or background in and don't do any research first.

There are no issues with fuel lines. I've worked in the industry since before ethanol blends were even a thing. I was in the industry when Tomco and others changed the materials used in carburetor parts and fuel lines were changed.
My truck mpg is actually almost 0 difference with blends vs. pure. And that makes some sense, too.
QT top tier fuel can be 10%

good read, that's why I avoid ethanol whenever I can

That's contradictory - deadeye basically said ethanol blends are fine - but you say his post is why you avoid it. You know basically nothing at all about it other than what you've read on the "I hate ethanol dot com" sites in your short years.

Deadeye's post is pretty good and covers the basics very well. However, IMO - his timing is off. We were replacing parts with ethanol-resistant parts in the first part of the 1980s. Tomco and others were the first out the door with viton parts - float valves, accelerator pump parts, ethanol resistant floats and more. In the 1990s I was using alcohol resistant fuel tank sealer already. I made tanks and sealed old tanks with it - and ran ethanol in it before the year 2000. I still have some of the stuff I started using ethanol in all those years ago. Again, I've run it in every car I've ever had - including my 77 AMX.

The 3.6 was originally thought to go the flex fuel direction.......... but it didn't happen, so it's ready if someone creates the tune, etc. and I'd have NO RESERVATIONS about E85 in my Jeep.
I ran it in my Chevy and it towed better, had more power (it was either 7 or 10 hp according to Chevrolet. I can't recall which but it pulled hills better with E85) The drop in mpg was actually negligible in my Silverado.

I would hope that real life experience since about 1980 using e10 and experience since that time as a mechanic taking care of vehicles that used it might count for at least a teeny bit as opposed to the urban legends and wive's tales that keep getting repeated, or the "it damaged by stuff" without any thought to the REAL science behind why the stuff was damaged........

 

[JET_83]

It's a shame that ethanol started being used in fuel sources at all tbh, 100% fuel source will always be superior

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Huh? That makes no sense. Alcohol IS a fuel.
Your precious gasoline isn't pure by any stretch of the imagination.
Your so-called "pure gas" is a blend of over 100 different 'fuels'.
The "base" is gasoline. Otherwise, it also has butane, pentane, isopentane, benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, and xylenes among other "fuels".
You don't want to deal with "pure" gasoline.

There are far better fuels than gasoline. It's just that the others are harder to come by or more expensive to make or have other issues.
How about you take some science classes or get a degree in automotive...............

 

[okiebandit1]

To preface my statement. I am a farmer and acknowledge that ethanol is somewhat more maintenance prone and application sensitive. But as an efficient use of a feed grain there is not much better. Because in that kernel of grain the starch is used to make the ethanol, then the distiller’s grain is used to grow your hamburgers, wings and pork chops. A very efficient use of a feed grain.
Just one’s opinion.

 

[JET_83]

Huh? That makes no sense. Alcohol IS a fuel.
Your precious gasoline isn't pure by any stretch of the imagination.
Your so-called "pure gas" is a blend of over 100 different 'fuels'.
The "base" is gasoline. Otherwise, it also has butane, pentane, isopentane, benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, and xylenes among other "fuels".
You don't want to deal with "pure" gasoline.

There are far better fuels than gasoline. It's just that the others are harder to come by or more expensive to make or have other issues.
How about you take some science classes or get a degree in automotive...............

Gasoline hasn’t had ethanol in it forever, genius. Lol

 

[sharpsicle]

Gasoline hasn’t had ethanol in it forever, genius. Lol

Can you show me where in his reply below he said ethanol?

...
The "base" is gasoline. Otherwise, it also has butane, pentane, isopentane, benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, and xylenes among other "fuels".
.....

Nope, no mention of ethanol in there.

Quit attacking others who are providing you with all the information you could want on this subject. There truly is a wealth of information available to you here if you'd open up to it.

 

[JET_83]

Huh? That makes no sense. Alcohol IS a fuel.
Your precious gasoline isn't pure by any stretch of the imagination.
Your so-called "pure gas" is a blend of over 100 different 'fuels'.
The "base" is gasoline. Otherwise, it also has butane, pentane, isopentane, benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, and xylenes among other "fuels".
You don't want to deal with "pure" gasoline.

There are far better fuels than gasoline. It's just that the others are harder to come by or more expensive to make or have other issues.
How about you take some science classes or get a degree in automotive...............

Just because alcohol is used as a fuel doesn’t make it a fuel.

Can you show me where in his reply below he said ethanol?



Nope, no mention of ethanol in there.

Quit attacking others who are providing you with all the information you could want on this subject. There truly is a wealth of information available to you here if you'd open up to it.

Ethanol is alcohol, genius

 

[JET_83]

Can you show me where in his reply below he said ethanol?



Nope, no mention of ethanol in there.

Quit attacking others who are providing you with all the information you could want on this subject. There truly is a wealth of information available to you here if you'd open up to it.

he said alcohol is used as a fuel, clearly that’s ethanol

 

[sharpsicle]

he said alcohol is used as a fuel, clearly that’s ethanol

So you didn't actually comprehend the post is what you're saying here. This is why it's so difficult for all these members to talk to you, you either aren't reading or aren't comprehending properly.

He detailed the components of non-ethanol gasoline to show you that it's just a mixture of various fuels to begin with. That was the point.

And before you go off on another "it isn't fuel" tangent, take a peek here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fuel

 

[JET_83]

So you didn't actually comprehend the post is what you're saying here. This is why it's so difficult for all these members to talk to you, you either aren't reading or aren't comprehending properly.

He detailed the components of non-ethanol gasoline to show you that it's just a mixture of various fuels to begin with. That was the point.

I comprehend just fine, and clearly I said ethanol hasn’t always been used. You don’t like what I have to say then don’t comment.

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