Is off roading too easy nowadays?

[Stan H]

I'd hardly call Jeep beach the proving ground of hard wheeling. Obviously the amazing crawl ratio of the 8 speed auto paired with the rubicon tcase is unprecedented from the factory, as are lockers and sway bar disconnects. But us hard core wheelers Obviously ran lockers and even doublers back in the day to get those same advantages. If you're comparing box stock the JLUR with the xr/35" tire package and it's ridiculous 86-1 crawl ratio destroys all the old rigs so bad it's almost comical. Even the OG Rubicon with the auto only had a 47-1 crawl ratio and 31s. Even the manual with the AX5 only had a 64-1 crawl ratio. Our rigs stock are as good off road as very built ones from 20 years ago and light years ahead of those built ones on road. Instead of some newbie/man made obstacles at jeep beach, take a JT or JL through the Rubicon and let us know if you think it's too easy. Yes it's much more comfortable and enjoyable than taking my old XJ through, but I wouldn't call it easy.

You seem to be totally stealing thoughts out of my mind
I was thinking about a recent trail I was on that was 20° on the dash read out and I was going up hills through a huge dip I got 35's and 2.5inch lift and I was have to go sideways one wheel at a time and stalled . .. I am driving an automatic . Now that's a proving ground.. ..lol loved the response .

Edit : I was on the lower side of the transfer case !!!

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[Supazuk]

Yep. I had one total alignment done on this a hundred years ago. They botched it and I had to fix it at home. Never gain.

only reason i got one was to check my numbers, I Did JL rubi front springs 2 inch spacer adjustable lower arms and track bar I used 2 strings a tape measurer and an angle finder results I want to say .01 tow but I know axle was dead center with 6 deg of caster on a hunter rack

 

[professorkx]

Looks phenomenal! I just don't see young people outside the motorpool or people born into the fabrication world doing it because it's fun for them. Part of that is great, it means the stuff available today isn't breaking as much as the old stuff. But they'd rather pay for the work they do need than actually get under something. A lot of it is because their parents just didn't expose them to it. I'm guilty of that to an extent. Pulling an engine because its the only way to replace a blown steering box in the middle of nowhere is just how I was raised. Not everyone was, my kids weren't to the same extent I was. I get it. I doubt I'll see a spare hub, drive or axle shaft, hell a U Joint or a basic tool kit in half of the rigs i see out there today. 30 years ago that wasn't the case. You had to be much more self reliant. I do still play around with stuff, but it really is a young man's game. That's not to say that us older guys can't get it done, I can still do the impropmtu bench press of a C6 because the damn kid screwed something up suddenly. I'm just going to pay for it the next day.

I tend to agree, as I see a difference in upgrading my new Gladiator with off the shelf parts than the fabrication we did 40 years ago.

For example, on my 47, I swapped in a Buick 231 v6 from an early 80’s Regal mated to an SM420 four speed from a school bus and had to fabricate all of my own mounts. When I stretched the frame, I built the new frame sections from scratch, as there wasn’t any off the shelf parts. Figuring out that a radiator from a 1967 Mustang with a 289 would fit and cool the v6 took 2 months to find, as I poured over radiator dimensions, inlet/outlet sizes and location until I found one that would work.

Lots of other examples, as I used parts from a lot of different rigs on my 47 and have about 1,000 hours of fabrication to get everything ready for the trail.

In comparison, I bought all of the parts for my JT off the shelf and just had to install them. This kind of work is still less common than it should be, as folks would rather just pay someone to install parts than do the work themselves. I applaud those that are building their new rig themselves, as I suspect this will become a lost art as vehicles advance in technology.

 

[Supazuk]

I agree with you, although I think there's also a matter of cost here on aftermarket parts. Nothing is cheap anymore! I remember a while back somebody was fabricating tube doors and keeping this forum updated. They wanted good and cheap doors, but the reality is the final price wasn't any different than what EAG already offers.

Mechanical upgrades on a new Gladiator Sport that meet or exceed the mechanical capabilities of a Rubicon cost more than just buying a Rubicon up front. That wasn't the case 20 years ago. (And I understand that if somebody really wants to they can camp on FB marketplace and find good used parts, but not everybody is interested in wheeling and dealing with 100 idiots for 1 great deal).

Nothing is Cheap for a JT? For a sport to get to 37's up front: 2 inch spacers on some take away rubi springs and one inch rear and add some used rubi flares that sub $800
25 years ago you couldn't do 36's on a TJ for under $2k

Traction on a sport you could get used rubicon axles and plug and play and if you want to go cheap you can add twin lunch box lockers $400 each (Aussi locker for a TJ in 04 was $350

Stock parts are cheaper now not just comparatively! a parts store TJ rotor bottom barrel, if there was event a choice, was around $75-120 (i worked in a parts store in the late 90's)

a 2023 JT rock auto you can get one as cheap as $29
Drilled black and sloted $129


The quality of parts has also risen ... 25 years ago you made your own sliders and tube doors only rich kids bought them at a shop

lucky guys had a garage to do work most if best had a drivway ...

I did my first sprung over on Zuk in a gravel drive with the tools I had
back then the bolt ons just didn't exist ...

 

[Sweetums]

Short answer…Yes, the new rigs cover a lot of inexperienced drivers mistakes. I think My new Gladiator is the first automatic 4x4 I’ve owned in over 4 decades of wheeling, and the automatic makes wheeling sooo much easier. I think the problem is that with a new rig, an inexperienced driver can get themselves into trouble without knowing they are heading down a dark path until its too late.

With that said, I still love taking my 47 cj2a truck conversion to places like Moab. Open diffs, manual trans, 33 inch tires and a lot of the old school charm that brings back memories of wheeling days gone by…best of all, I built the 47 truck conversion myself…

Old Jeeps like the Flat Fender often perform better than people expect. The low center of gravity and narrow track are better suited to taking "the SxS line", they can pick their line better than a bloated, heavy modern 4WD that has to just point the front and hope the tech sorts out the traction issues.

 

[Jaxmax]

It is what you make it if you think it is getting too easy, don’t use as big a lift and tires, work harder at the lines and see how you do. As for younger people not wrenching , my family is the Mack Truck family and they all seem to have it in their blood , I am old but my grandkids have it…it is great to see Eli and my son in law building a E-Bike for racing and seeing the results and comments from other racers, and there is my ten year old grandson bent over this amazing build wrenching away, yes I am on the Meatball Squad!…..Jack Mack
#Elizulli meatball

 

[professorkx]

Old Jeeps like the Flat Fender often perform better than people expect. The low center of gravity and narrow track are better suited to taking "the SxS line", they can pick their line better than a bloated, heavy modern 4WD that has to just point the front and hope the tech sorts out the traction issues.

Tend to agree. My frame stretch gave me 103.5 wheelbase, which I like better than the original wheelbase.

 

[WILDHOBO]

only reason i got one was to check my numbers, I Did JL rubi front springs 2 inch spacer adjustable lower arms and track bar I used 2 strings a tape measurer and an angle finder results I want to say .01 tow but I know axle was dead center with 6 deg of caster on a hunter rack

That’s very impressive. What’s your method for axle center measurement? I can get close, but not perfect. Any suggestions are appreciated. I have brackets for toe measurement and shoot for 1/16” toe in. Is that what you’d shoot for? Thanks.

 

[GoHack]

Way too much junk and bells and whistles in order to please some people now-a-days.
I just bought a new 2024 Gladiator Rubicon, and it is loaded, including GPS. The only major items that I wanted was the Front and Rear Lockers, and the Hardtop, and oh the steel winch bumper which I installed a winch on.

Then all the electronics virtually everywhere. When they work, they work great, but when they don't, it's a nightmare. With electronics they either work or they don't.

My very first Jeep was a brand new 1985 Jeep CJ7, w/the old carbureted 258 ci I6 engine and a 5 speed manual. Other than having electronic ignition, it was bare bone w/a plain and simple dash and interior.
Just getting a radio was an option, which I eventually bought from a junkyard.
The only problem or issue w/it, was "RUST" in the rear quarters, even when I had it under coated when new, washed and waxed it all the time, it still rusted. I eventually got rid of it because of the rust, which I tried fixing, but the rust won.
Believe it or not, I could get 28 mpg w/that thing on the highway, even w/28" tires at the time.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Way too much junk and bells and whistles in order to please some people now-a-days.
I just bought a new 2024 Gladiator Rubicon, and it is loaded, including GPS. The only major items that I wanted was the Front and Rear Lockers, and the Hardtop, and oh the steel winch bumper which I installed a winch on.

Then all the electronics virtually everywhere. When they work, they work great, but when they don't, it's a nightmare. With electronics they either work or they don't.

My very first Jeep was a brand new 1985 Jeep CJ7, w/the old carbureted 258 ci I6 engine and a 5 speed manual. Other than having electronic ignition, it was bare bone w/a plain and simple dash and interior.
Just getting a radio was an option, which I eventually bought from a junkyard.
The only problem or issue w/it, was "RUST" in the rear quarters, even when I had it under coated when new, washed and waxed it all the time, it still rusted. I eventually got rid of it because of the rust, which I tried fixing, but the rust won.
Believe it or not, I could get 28 mpg w/that thing on the highway, even w/28" tires at the time.

Love the cj. Mine had plenty of rust as well. I should have kept it and replaced the tub. Oh well. Hindsight. It goes both ways though. The jeeps today are way safer, on the road and off. A serious rollover with the cj roll bar attached to the tub instead of the frame wasn’t exactly awesome. And the windshield would crumple like a tin can. The new ones put you in a situation to number one have less chances of rolling, and if you do, you’ll like have bumps and bruises.i wouldn’t wheel hard trails in a cj with my kids in the back. I don’t hesitate in these.

 

[Sweetums]

Tend to agree. My frame stretch gave me 103.5 wheelbase, which I like better than the original wheelbase.

We have an LJ Rubicon next to the JT; the stock wheelbase is 103.4" and it's pretty much perfect.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

That’s very impressive. What’s your method for axle center measurement? I can get close, but not perfect. Any suggestions are appreciated. I have brackets for toe measurement and shoot for 1/16” toe in. Is that what you’d shoot for? Thanks.

I shoot for 1/8 inch of toe-in at the tire diameter.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I shoot for 1/8 inch of toe-in at the tire diameter.

Meaning with 37’s?

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Meaning with 37’s?

I'm running 35's, I set the toe at ~17 1/2 inches out from center on my toe-bars. 37's I'd go out to ~18 1/2 inches from center.

 

[Supazuk]

Tend to agree. My frame stretch gave me 103.5 wheelbase, which I like better than the original wheelbase.

I remember when stretching my zuk to 101 seemed huge lol

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