Is off roading too easy nowadays?

[Viper501]

Glad I’m not the only one doing sketchy shit trying to get enough height off of a too short jack. Though my sketch extended to too short jack stands as well.

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[Jefe1018]

I’m not the rock crawling type… I like mild to moderate trails and in three years it was just funny how not hard anything was with the cheapest lift and a set of 37’s… I feel those trails that would really challenge me and the truck would be borderline insane. So yes, vehicles are more capable than ever out of the box and you can just rip and run. It’s the same reason so many people run side by sides now, they just go for a fixed price.

Anywho, getting the power wagon through trails now is a challenge, but still silly easy.

I’m building a mild XJ now, it’s what my buddies run. When not on the trail, welding and rebuilding and tinkering is fun. I’m also going to stick with 31’s or 33’s to really just have fun out there.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Looks phenomenal! I just don't see young people outside the motorpool or people born into the fabrication world doing it because it's fun for them. Part of that is great, it means the stuff available today isn't breaking as much as the old stuff. But they'd rather pay for the work they do need than actually get under something. A lot of it is because their parents just didn't expose them to it. I'm guilty of that to an extent. Pulling an engine because its the only way to replace a blown steering box in the middle of nowhere is just how I was raised. Not everyone was, my kids weren't to the same extent I was. I get it. I doubt I'll see a spare hub, drive or axle shaft, hell a U Joint or a basic tool kit in half of the rigs i see out there today. 30 years ago that wasn't the case. You had to be much more self reliant. I do still play around with stuff, but it really is a young man's game. That's not to say that us older guys can't get it done, I can still do the impropmtu bench press of a C6 because the damn kid screwed something up suddenly. I'm just going to pay for it the next day.

I wasn’t brought up that way, nor is my career a wrenching one. I think that’s why I love it. But I’ve always been quick to take something apart. I’ll learn more about how it works that way. So when it breaks, I have an idea of what broke and why. I keep A LOT of spares, and way more tools with me than is reasonable to most. I like being self reliant very much. To a fault sometimes.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Glad I’m not the only one doing sketchy shit trying to get enough height off of a too short jack. Though my sketch extended to too short jack stands as well.

Technically the wood was to protect the tranny, but it’s at times too short. But light enough for me to lug around.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I’m not the rock crawling type… I like mild to moderate trails and in three years it was just funny how not hard anything was with the cheapest lift and a set of 37’s… I feel those trails that would really challenge me and the truck would be borderline insane. So yes, vehicles are more capable than ever out of the box and you can just rip and run. It’s the same reason so many people run side by sides now, they just go for a fixed price.

Anywho, getting the power wagon through trails now is a challenge, but still silly easy.

I’m building a mild XJ now, it’s what my buddies run. When not on the trail, welding and rebuilding and tinkering is fun. I’m also going to stick with 31’s or 33’s to really just have fun out there.

I admittedly am addicted to rock crawling. I love the feel of the tire grabbing and crawling up. Especially if it took a minute to figure out how to get it to grab. Even on 37’s I constantly find things that are too much, and need to back down.

 

[Biff Happy]

Back when the Rubicon first came out….. a friend of ours bought one… He kept it completely stock (car-like tires).

I don’t know if I would exactly call the original rubicon’s 31” Wrangler MTR’s car like, that was pretty beefy tire for the time, kinda still is.

remember the old yj base S platform came with p205/75 r15’s.

of course a short wheel base precludes having to need giant tires for break over clearance that you need for a JT.

 

[Jefe1018]

I admittedly am addicted to rock crawling. I love the feel of the tire grabbing and crawling up. Especially if it took a minute to figure out how to get it to grab. Even on 37’s I constantly find things that are too much, and need to back down.

Rock climbing is fun. I was more referring to stuff with cliffs or too off camber, loose large rocks etc. I gotta drive home, people to care about and am aware I’m only as good as my ability to get to work.

The XJ will be fun and if I wreck it… it’s $500 for another one with a bad motor and I can move most things over.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Rock climbing is fun. I was more referring to stuff with cliffs or too off camber, loose large rocks etc. I gotta drive home, people to care about and am aware I’m only as good as my ability to get to work.

The XJ will be fun and if I wreck it… it’s $500 for another one with a bad motor and I can move most things over.

I don’t disagree with that at all. I always drive mine home. I avoid damage. If it’s unreasonable, I’ll skip it.

 

[Supazuk]

I don’t know if I would exactly call the original rubicon’s 31” Wrangler MTR’s car like, that was pretty beefy tire for the time, kinda still is.

remember the old yj base S platform came with p205/75 r15’s.

of course a short wheel base precludes having to need giant tires for break over clearance that you need for a JT.

I guess its where you were and what you were exposed to, but in early 90's I never would have considered a rig on 31's "beefy", except maybe a samurai. On a street/trail rig 33's and 35 's were the norm and most of the mud trucks were on 36's What was the wow factor back then was to see a truck on 44 Ground hawg's

FF to early 2000's on the rocks 33's were tiny, crawlers were on 36's and up and by 2010 40's were the old 36's

 

[TheDerb]

People don't want to have to do the wrench time to be able to get outdoors anymore. The only place I see people welding their rigs together anymore is lower enlisted housing on base. These newer rigs are pretty capable. People don't have to shorten Chevy 14 bolts and figure axle geometry and spring perch placement to fit on a Bronco 2 anymore to get out and have a ball. Part of it is sad.

I agree with you, although I think there's also a matter of cost here on aftermarket parts. Nothing is cheap anymore! I remember a while back somebody was fabricating tube doors and keeping this forum updated. They wanted good and cheap doors, but the reality is the final price wasn't any different than what EAG already offers.

Mechanical upgrades on a new Gladiator Sport that meet or exceed the mechanical capabilities of a Rubicon cost more than just buying a Rubicon up front. That wasn't the case 20 years ago. (And I understand that if somebody really wants to they can camp on FB marketplace and find good used parts, but not everybody is interested in wheeling and dealing with 100 idiots for 1 great deal).

I remember being back on Fort Knox in 2003, and you could rent a bay at the shop, rent any tool you could possibly need, and spend a Saturday doing whatever it was you needed to do. And you had a somewhat captive group of buddies who would help you if you helped them.

I had a 99 mustang back then- it had mid 250's for horsepower (and was comically slow compared to today's offerings). I remember doing some pretty impressive upgrades for cheap back then. Added 150 horsepower for a couple grand and a bunch of buddy labor and beers the next weekend.

Now? A brand new mustang Ecoboost has 2 options- you get an intake tune for $1,000, and the next step up is a supercharger or turbocharger for any meaningful upgrades. And Joe blow and his buddies aren't safely doing that on post. And doing that puts you above the cost of a new Mustang GT.

I say all of that because I think that IF you could reasonably inexpensively wrench your own upgrades for even 20% less than it costs from the dealership, more people would- despite the built in capability. It just isn't worth it anymore when every joker with a few spare parts "knows what they have" and want thousands for a set of axles that could do exactly what a young kid needed, and that kid could learn a lot, but they can't source the damn things without paying 3 months of rent for them.

 

[Janster]

People don't want to have to do the wrench time to be able to get outdoors anymore.

The younger generations (and/or society in general) are spending too much time on their phones & social media. Shut down all the social media apps, and you’ll see all sorts of people getting outdoors.

It has nothing to do with ‘wrench time’ - because you don’t need to wrench on anything just to take your stock jeep outdoors or on the trails. Or even put on a pair of good sneakers and go walking on a local trail.

There’s a certain amount of society that we don‘t want doing any ‘wrench time’.

And then….you get older and can’t (or shouldn’t) do any wrench time.

 

[Janster]

I don’t know if I would exactly call the original rubicon’s 31” Wrangler MTR’s car like, that was pretty beefy tire for the time, kinda still is.

remember the old yj base S platform came with p205/75 r15’s.

of course a short wheel base precludes having to need giant tires for break over clearance that you need for a JT.

I don’t (and didn’t) know what tires were on it….. but comparing to now-a-days? They’re certainly more car-like than rock crawling like….

I had bone stock 92 Islander (totalled) and was converted to a 94….. with 35 x 12.5’s. We had 4.5” lift, 1” body lift, and ford shock towers on the front it…. just so the 35’s could stretch & not rub. It took a lot of lift just to fit 35’s under them.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

It's funny... when I ordered the RockJock steering a few weeks ago, shop owner asked if I needed them to install it, I said that I had that under control. He insisted on reminding me that I'd need an alignment afterwards, I told him I could handle setting the toe and centering the steering wheel...

 

[WILDHOBO]

It's funny... when I ordered the RockJock steering a few weeks ago, shop owner asked if I needed them to install it, I said that I had that under control. He insisted on reminding me that I'd need an alignment afterwards, I told him I could handle setting the toe and centering the steering wheel...

Yep. I had one total alignment done on this a hundred years ago. They botched it and I had to fix it at home. Never again.

 

[MoparToYou]

I spent a week at jeep beach helping people on obstacle courses
The older stuff had to work fairly hard to run the same course as a newer rig.

But is it just too easy today?

We don't need to manage a clutch
We don't need to manage wheel spin (throttle control really isn't what it had to be 30 years ago)
We complain about power but we have soo much tq on tap now

All our new trucks do it so much easier. But is that better?

I think the difficulty of the tougher trails has kept pace with the improvement in our vehicles over the years. Or maybe it is the other way around, our vehicles have kept pace with the increasing difficulty of the tougher trails. I've been Jeeping since the 1970s, and have owned CJs, YJs, TJs, JKs, and JLs. The new vehicles are certainly more comfortable and more capable stock, than the older vehicles were when stock, there is no question there.

But I don't think it is any easier on the tougher trails. I first did the Rubicon trail in 1997 in a TJ on 35s with lunch box lockers in both axles and a 2 1/2" lift, and although it was challenging, I didn't think it was too hard. I've done the Rubicon several times since, and it seems the rocks are growing in size each year. My 7th crossing of the Rubicon was last summer in my 392 JLUR with a 2 1/2" lift and 37s, and I thought the trail was definitely more of a challenge than in the 1990s. The trail is now much more difficult. It seemed like I drug the Metalcloak skids on every rock between Loon Lake and Lake Tahoe. I don't think there was 1 square inch on those skids that hadn't been scraped or gouged, and every single skid had been used; differential skids, control arm skids, engine, transfer case, transmission, and gas tank skids, as well as both rock sliders did their job. After that trip I changed the lift from 2 1/2" to 4 1/2" and changed from 37s to 40s. This year at the Easter Jeep Safari in Moab I did some of the toughest trails. Cliffhanger trail is rated 8 and is now much more challenging than when I first started doing it in the 1990s. My first time on that trail was in a 1/2 ton Chevy pickup truck with 35s. This time was in a 392 JLUR with 40s. I can't count how many times I drug the bumpers dropping off of ledges that are now 5' high.

So, my short answer would be that it is not too easy today. Jeeping on a man-made obstacle on a beach probably is too easy though.

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