Is the V6 gone for 2025?

[SSingh1975]

And one of the main reason why I got my '23 diesel before the stock dried up in my area. Even when I bought mine, I had a red and another white that I test drove and they were sold the same week. At $49k discounted prices, people were scooping these up back in the year.

If the diesel didnt exist, I would probably have gotten the new Ranger or Taco. RIP diesel.

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[biodiesel]

Looking back, the Aspen was far more attractive than its Durango twin. Had the 2008/09 recession not forced DC to consolidate operations and dealers, I wonder if Chrysler would have soldiered on doing badge engineered luxury versions of its other vehicles the way Cadillac had for decades.

The Chrysler Aspen was the high-end version of the Durango. At that time, Sergio said that Dodge would be the 'sport' line and he wanted to make Chrysler more of a luxury line. That was very well accomplished with the Aspen. Sergio wasn't American, but he spoke highly of the American brands and wanted to make the individual brands (Dodge, Ram, Chrysler, and Jeep) well established and known throughout the auto industry.

I agree that the 2008/2009 financial downturn changed the auto industry as we knew it back then.

Not that it's a bad thing- Chrysler sold T&C minivans by the hundreds of thousands as the luxury alternative to the Voyager and Caravan. I remember when my folks were seriously considering mommy vans in the early 90s- the T&C was the top contender until Ford debuted the Windstar which was substantially bigger and a lot less money.

The Chrysler Town and Country certainly made its mark and helped popularize the minivan. From my understanding, the Chrysler Pacifica is very nice, too.

Back in February of 2021, Carlos Tavares said, "There is a future for Chrysler among the 13 other brands of Stellantis NV because it is a "pillar" of the transatlantic automaker. Our mindset is to try to protect ourselves in the future as a matter of respect to all of those who were in the past able to lead this brand to the current outcome. If we are here to talk about it today, it is because before us, many talented people were able to lead us to this point. That is our responsibility."

Maybe I'm being too hard on Carlos, and maybe he has a plan, but as of right now, I don't see any campaigning to build up the brand. It wouldn't take a lot of money for Stellantis to produce a few super nice Chrysler SUVs based off some of the other platforms in the Dodge and Jeep segment but make the styling very different.

 

[biodiesel]

And one of the main reason why I got my '23 diesel before the stock dried up in my area. Even when I bought mine, I had a red and another white that I test drove and they were sold the same week. At $49k discounted prices, people were scooping these up back in the year.

If the diesel didnt exist, I would probably have gotten the new Ranger or Taco. RIP diesel.

I agree 100%. We snatched up a 2023 Gladiator EcoDiesel with a December build date. My wife and I had no plans to buy one, but we both agreed that we wanted to get the last mid-sized truck made with a diesel engine. And we are happy that we did. The Gladiator has met or exceeded our expectation. We'll be keeping this one for the next 20+ years.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Sergio wasn't American, but he spoke highly of the American brands and wanted to make the individual brands (Dodge, Ram, Chrysler, and Jeep) well established and known throughout the auto industry.

I agree that the 2008/2009 financial downturn changed the auto industry as we knew it back then.

Sergio might not have been American but he was a car enthusiast first and businessman second, and more than anyone in recent history in the automaker C-suite aside from Bob Lutz. And he certainly recognized the strength and legacy of the Chrysler brands, and knew excitement internally and externally had to be brought back and fast after the aborted Daimler merger and Cerberus ownership.

Back in February of 2021, Carlos Tavares said, "There is a future for Chrysler among the 13 other brands of Stellantis NV because it is a "pillar" of the transatlantic automaker. Our mindset is to try to protect ourselves in the future as a matter of respect to all of those who were in the past able to lead this brand to the current outcome. If we are here to talk about it today, it is because before us, many talented people were able to lead us to this point. That is our responsibility."

Maybe I'm being too hard on Carlos, and maybe he has a plan, but as of right now, I don't see any campaigning to build up the brand. It wouldn't take a lot of money for Stellantis to produce a few super nice Chrysler SUVs based off some of the other platforms in the Dodge and Jeep segment but make the styling very different.

Hell of a word salad from Carlos.

I'm with you on the second point as well. Chrysler has a couple future/concepts on the page but its header is "Minivans, Hybrid Minivans and the 300." Don't know about you but to me that is as exciting as watching paint dry. They could have badge engineered the Durango into a modern Aspen or a different nameplate just as easily. Instead, they try to market Wagoneer as a stand alone brand within a brand... and now it's back to being a Jeep- again.

 

[biodiesel]

They could have badge engineered the Durango into a modern Aspen or a different nameplate just as easily.

Exactly. My buddy owns a 2019 Durango, 2023 Challenger, 2021 Ram TRX, and 2017 Ram 3500 chassis cab. He told me the other day that there's nothing in the Ram, Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler lineup that remotely excites him. He doesn't see himself trading/buying anything for the 4 - 5 years. After he said that, I thought about it, and concluded that I feel the same way. We sold our 2006 Ram Cummins, so we are planning to replace it with a Ram 3500, but I'm planning to wait until 2028 for the new body/chassis.

Instead, they try to market Wagoneer as a stand alone brand within a brand... and now it's back to being a Jeep- again.

Stellantis seems to put all their time and energy into the Ram and Jeep brands. As much as I like Jeep and Ram, I would love to see Chrysler emerge as a major player in the automotive world. Stellantis needs to cut back on the EV stuff and focus on what Americans want and need.

I would love to see a 2025 Chrysler Aspen with a Hurricane engine. If they did it right, it would be a good selling vehicle. Someday I would like to have a Chrysler in my garage.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Exactly. My buddy owns a 2019 Durango, 2023 Challenger, 2021 Ram TRX, and 2017 Ram 3500 chassis cab. He told me the other day that there's nothing in the Ram, Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler lineup that remotely excites him. He doesn't see himself trading/buying anything for the 4 - 5 years. After he said that, I thought about it, and concluded that I feel the same way. We sold our 2006 Ram Cummins, so we are planning to replace it with a Ram 3500, but I'm planning to wait until 2028 for the new body/chassis.

Funny, my father says the same thing about Ford trucks. He's daily'ed a 2011 F150 Platinum since new and now with 200K miles he's looking at either a GM Twin or a Ram to replace it. My money is on a Silverado in a color to complement his 2017 Stingray so he can tow it and his Boomer Board to car shows.

Stellantis seems to put all their time and energy into the Ram and Jeep brands. As much as I like Jeep and Ram, I would love to see Chrysler emerge as a major player in the automotive world. Stellantis needs to cut back on the EV stuff and focus on what Americans want and need.

I would love to see a 2025 Chrysler Aspen with a Hurricane engine. If they did it right, it would be a good selling vehicle. Someday I would like to have a Chrysler in my garage.

That's because of all the marques in the US, these are the most profitable and Stellantis needs to keep that gravy train rolling.

Jeep owners are among the most loyal in the business and the Grand Cherokee and Wrangler are icons-- and sell like it. Never underestimate the value of collective pop culture nostalgia in a brand- Jeep has banked on that since the first Willys rolled off the line. VW, too.

Ram benefits from full size truck sales being the most profitable segment in the auto world and a massive chunk of overall unit sales annually across personal and fleet markets. They hit gold when they kept the old new in 2009 Ram on as the Classic and sold tens of thousands of them along the modern Rams. That tooling was paid for well over a decade ago and is printing money for them now.

Without heading this down the political talk warning aisle, the reality is that Stellantis **has** to do EVs to get the billions in CAFE fines they pay annually under control. I don't want nor am the use case for an EV but until the government stops forcing the automakers hands and CAFE fines get lowered, this is our new reality. I hate it, BTW. Drive an EV if you want, go for it. The tech is pretty wild, I just don't have any interest.

As for an Aspen-Hurricane matchup, I'm afraid the Wagoneer has probably killed Chrysler's ability to get its own upmarket Luxo-SUV. It would be pretty slick if they could.

 

[biodiesel]

Without heading this down the political talk warning aisle, the reality is that Stellantis **has** to do EVs to get the billions in CAFE fines they pay annually under control. I don't want nor am the use case for an EV but until the government stops forcing the automakers hands and CAFE fines get lowered, this is our new reality. I hate it, BTW.

I realize that legislation has really put auto manufactures in a tough position. I wish America would rely on the free market to make those types of decisions.

Drive an EV if you want, go for it. The tech is pretty wild, I just don't have any interest.

I'm not against EV, I just wished the auto industry would cater to both audiences. I live in a remote area and travel great distances. The idea of EV wouldn't work for me.

As for an Aspen-Hurricane matchup, I'm afraid the Wagoneer has probably killed Chrysler's ability to get its own upmarket Luxo-SUV. It would be pretty slick if they could.

I'm not on the inside to know what's being discussed, but I've always read that Ram, Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep don't want to complete against each other, which I think is a bad philosophy. For example, I read that Ram didn't want to release a mid-sized Ram truck because it would take away sales from the Jeep Gladiator.

What's the point of having Ram, Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep if you don't let the brands have some overlap? If they would build them different enough, Stellantis would appeal to different markets and perhaps bring new people to the brand. But you're right, Stellantis is afraid that a Chrysler Aspen would take away sales from the Durango and Grand Wagoneer. Oh, by the way, the Aspen made the top 5 best-selling vehicles that Chrysler ever built.

• Chrysler Pacifica
• Chrysler 300
• Chrysler Town & Country
• Chrysler Voyager
• Chrysler Aspen

 

[johnchabin]

Wrangler RUBICON 4xe seems like a good solution for Colorado, IMO.

 

[hepcat]

A V6 Hybrid might still entice me to jump. I don't tow a ton but enough and I'm concerned about the reported gladiator experience here and elsewhere. I don't care about the 7K max I wouldn't be close to that but I've driven a RAM 1500 Regular cab 5.7L with the ZF8HP75/tow package for 10yrs and would likely regret stepping down in performance significantly.

I just towed this over La Veta Pass in Colorado (9430 feet elevation) without issue with my '22 Overland. I think folks' towing concerns are over-blown.

 

[BourbonRunner]

I realize that legislation has really put auto manufactures in a tough position. I wish America would rely on the free market to make those types of decisions.

I'm not against EV, I just wished the auto industry would cater to both audiences. I live in a remote area and travel great distances. The idea of EV wouldn't work for me.

You and me both but our electeds clearly know better than those of us that exist in the real world.

Irrespective of political affiliation, we are governed by our lessers.

I'm not on the inside to know what's being discussed, but I've always read that Ram, Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep don't want to complete against each other, which I think is a bad philosophy. For example, I read that Ram didn't want to release a mid-sized Ram truck because it would take away sales from the Jeep Gladiator.

What's the point of having Ram, Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep if you don't let the brands have some overlap? If they would build them different enough, Stellantis would appeal to different markets and perhaps bring new people to the brand. But you're right, Stellantis is afraid that a Chrysler Aspen would take away sales from the Durango and Grand Wagoneer. Oh, by the way, the Aspen made the top 5 best-selling vehicles that Chrysler ever built.

• Chrysler Pacifica
• Chrysler 300
• Chrysler Town & Country
• Chrysler Voyager
• Chrysler Aspen

I hear you there. Problem is the C-Suites are more risk averse now than ever before, even with plenty of historic and current evidence that if they're handled properly there isn't much crossover between buyers.

For several decades ChryCo sold Voyagers as the entry level, Caravans as the mid-grade, and T&Cs as the luxury side... and Chrysler dominated the minivan market. And then there's the K-Cars, which underpinned the majority of the lineup across all three brands for a very long time while they rescued Chrysler from bankruptcy.

The issue is when they blur the lines too much between them, IE the GM A and G body cars and later. Keep them differentiated and target different segments of the market, just like Sloan did with GM.

The mid-size Ram is a missed opportunity. There's plenty of market share to go around, and the buyer of a smaller Ram pickup may consider a Gladiator but they likely considered the GM Twins, Ranger, Tacoma, or even a Frontier, too.

 

[biodiesel]

The mid-size Ram is a missed opportunity. There's plenty of market share to go around, and the buyer of a smaller Ram pickup may consider a Gladiator but they likely considered the GM Twins, Ranger, Tacoma, or even a Frontier, too.

A Ram mid-sized truck would be very different than the Gladiator in many categories (ride comfort, performance, interior look, exterior look, luxury, options, styling, etc.). Ram is very strong in the truck segment, so it only makes sense that they continue to be a major player in that market.

I think Stellantis needs to release two Chrysler SUVs and compete with some of those in the top 25 list of best-selling SUVs.

25 Best-Selling SUVs of 2023

1. Toyota RAV4
2. Tesla Model Y
3. Honda CR-V
4. Nissan Rogue
5. Jeep Grand Cherokee
6. Chevrolet Equinox
7. Hyundai Tucson
8. Ford Explorer
9. Toyota Highlander
10. Subaru Outback
11. Subaru Crosstrek
12. Jeep Wrangler
13. Mazda CX-5
14. Subaru Forester
15. Ford Escape
16. Kia Sportage
17. Hyundai Santa Fe
18. Ford Bronco Sport
19. Honda HR-V
20. Toyota 4Runner
21. Lexus RX
22. Chevrolet Trailblazer
23. Kia Telluride
24. Chevrolet Tahoe
25. Honda Pilot

 

[BourbonRunner]

A Ram mid-sized truck would be very different than the Gladiator in many categories (ride comfort, performance, interior look, exterior look, luxury, options, styling, etc.). Ram is very strong in the truck segment, so it only makes sense that they continue to be a major player in that market.

I think Stellantis needs to release two Chrysler SUVs and compete with some of those in the top 25 list of best-selling SUVs.

Exactly. And the thing is, they really don't have to reinvent the wheel on that end. They have ROW models like the Rampage on the same platform as the Hornet/Tonale they could import, federalize, and sell in relatively quick time- if it wasn't for the chicken tax. I know that it was **supposed** to be here possibly as a 2024 model but that 25% tariff is a real tough one to overcome. If it came to the US and started 25% more than a Maverick it will be a turkey.

And yes, it would be nice. A luxurious Hornet would be an easy add on, and a Range Rover-esque Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer would be very interesting.

 

[biodiesel]

And yes, it would be nice. A luxurious Hornet would be an easy add on, and a Range Rover-esque Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer would be very interesting.

I think Carlos Tavares should hire you and I to help him out.

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