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Leaking axle seal?

rafael004

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And as I've said before - it didn't leak in 2020 model year!!
So -simply undo the revision changes!
That's what we did at Compressor Controls. Every tiny little change had to be tracked, documented, tested, approved. Make a change, no matter how small, there was a paper trail and the numbers changed. They know the date any change went into effect, Jeep must do this for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is they are an ISO company and sell in the EU. Inspectors come on a regular basis and query employees on change control and revision tracking.
Find the first instance of leaks being reported, find the part number and revision, track it back, and undo the changes.
I know it's up to Dana, but still, good grief, how hard can it be?
Companies have been successfully sealing thin small molecule gases under pressure for years, we can seal refrigerant from leaking out of a rotating shaft with that refrigerant under pressure and we can't seal hypoid lube that's not under pressure?
HI I have a 2020 sport s and have a leak in the front axel
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ShadowsPapa

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That tells me it has to either be a manufacturing issue of either tolerance stacking and/or assembly error.
One of the first things taught in the first auto class I was officially in in HS (I tested out of the first 2 years) was about "stack-up of tolerances". It was explaining how Joe could have a Ford that went 120,000 miles with zero engine troubles, great oil pressure, no oil consumption and his neighbor, Sam, had a loose engine that made noise at 60,000 miles and low oil pressure. Every part has a manufacturing tolerance. If the crankshaft rod journals are on the small side of spec while bearings are on the large side - it's loose, but in spec technically. Then the next guy has the opposite - a tight engine.
Anyone who has done engine building has run across numbers or letters stamped on a part now and then - maybe a B next to cylinder bore #3, or an A on a main cap. Don't assume - check those closely as the rings or bearings may be .001 over (or under, for bearings)
They don't toss such assemblies, they compensate with undersize bearings, for example, to bring the clearance into spec.

Here's what also gets me on some of this stuff - a small U.S. auto maker, struggling to survive, as early as the 1970s, had a machine that would spin the engine crankshaft while hoses and pressure monitoring equipment was connected at various points in the oiling system. They knew exactly where every oil hole was in every part, every bearing, and exactly when everything lined up and at xx psi pressure the oil was delivered to the oiling system and that equipment monitored every pulse, every deviation or change in pressure and knew if a bearing wasn't lined up correctly or of other issues. They were monitoring fractions of psi at various spot and could smell trouble without ever starting that engine.
And yet today - we have leaking axle seals................

Lastly, the manufacturing employees at DANA facilities in the USA have been going through quite a bit the last decade even though they are mostly Unionized. They have gone to a two-tier pay structure that leaves the legacy employees to age out with decent wages and brings in replacement new hires at a pittance of previous wages and grinds them in almost sweat shop conditions to produce. DANA corporate has constantly been threating to move most operations to Mexico like AAM did a few years back and holds that over employees heads.
My father was a UAW member, worked in a factory for years - I have a good idea of what you are talking about. In the end, the company was moved to a southern state I won't name to cut the costs of wages and benefits. He refused to move with the company so was out of a job. And yet he had saved the company who knows how many thousands, maybe millions, with his ideas for efficiency (I have one of the awards and some photos where he was awarded for his cost-cutting ideas) The ironic thing was that a few years after they moved, the move backfired on them. Quality plummeted, they cut their costs but the product ended up being bad and they ended up going bust over dropping sales.

Dana better watch out - I know what happened when an Iowa company moved south - repair people hate working on those products now, reliability sucks. They used to be a premier product, no more.
 

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One of the first things taught in the first auto class I was officially in in HS (I tested out of the first 2 years) was about "stack-up of tolerances". It was explaining how Joe could have a Ford that went 120,000 miles with zero engine troubles, great oil pressure, no oil consumption and his neighbor, Sam, had a loose engine that made noise at 60,000 miles and low oil pressure. Every part has a manufacturing tolerance. If the crankshaft rod journals are on the small side of spec while bearings are on the large side - it's loose, but in spec technically. Then the next guy has the opposite - a tight engine.
Anyone who has done engine building has run across numbers or letters stamped on a part now and then - maybe a B next to cylinder bore #3, or an A on a main cap. Don't assume - check those closely as the rings or bearings may be .001 over (or under, for bearings)
They don't toss such assemblies, they compensate with undersize bearings, for example, to bring the clearance into spec.

Here's what also gets me on some of this stuff - a small U.S. auto maker, struggling to survive, as early as the 1970s, had a machine that would spin the engine crankshaft while hoses and pressure monitoring equipment was connected at various points in the oiling system. They knew exactly where every oil hole was in every part, every bearing, and exactly when everything lined up and at xx psi pressure the oil was delivered to the oiling system and that equipment monitored every pulse, every deviation or change in pressure and knew if a bearing wasn't lined up correctly or of other issues. They were monitoring fractions of psi at various spot and could smell trouble without ever starting that engine.
And yet today - we have leaking axle seals................



My father was a UAW member, worked in a factory for years - I have a good idea of what you are talking about. In the end, the company was moved to a southern state I won't name to cut the costs of wages and benefits. He refused to move with the company so was out of a job. And yet he had saved the company who knows how many thousands, maybe millions, with his ideas for efficiency (I have one of the awards and some photos where he was awarded for his cost-cutting ideas) The ironic thing was that a few years after they moved, the move backfired on them. Quality plummeted, they cut their costs but the product ended up being bad and they ended up going bust over dropping sales.

Dana better watch out - I know what happened when an Iowa company moved south - repair people hate working on those products now, reliability sucks. They used to be a premier product, no more.
Stacked tolerances is a real thing. Working in a fab/machine shop. You get to see it often. Parts are either too long or too short to assemble. If you are working with tolerances of 0.0002". It can become a headache.


I know of a company that did that too. Westinghouse's move from Pittsburgh to the south. After about 5 yrs after the move. The VP who came up with the idea and was responsible for the move got shit canned. Elliott took in some of the machinists who was let go when I was working there.
 

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Stacked tolerances is a real thing. Working in a fab/machine shop. You get to see it often. Parts are either too long or too short to assemble. If you are working with tolerances of 0.0002". It can become a headache.


I know of a company that did that too. Westinghouse's move from Pittsburgh to the south. After about 5 yrs after the move. The VP who came up with the idea and was responsible for the move got shit canned. Elliott took in some of the machinists who was let go when I was working there.
When Principal canned about 70 or so of us IT people, (then turned around a week later and advertised for IT staff - yeah, new, lower, beginning wages) - anyway, I wasn't so far out from my automotive and basic machine background that I figured I couldn't get into either John Deere or Bridgestone/Firestone.
I was called to come in to Bridgestone and take some testing. Conference room, large table, about 30 of us in there. When I say basic testing, I mean BASIC testing. Images of a micrometer, what does it read. Images of a tape measure, what's the reading, if you have a spec of xxx and the mic reads yyy, what's the difference. Some basic math - subtract this decimal from this fraction, multiple or add some fractions, that sort of thing. Easy-peasy.
And yet out of that group, if I remember correctly, half failed to get half of the questions correct. Only a couple of us got over 90. I had no problems with it.
And yet - I wasn't called back! I suspect they wanted low wage people and saw what I had been making and my resume had them figuring I wasn't in it for the long haul. I was actually almost laughing when I left there thinking of how many didn't even get half of those silly questions correct. I bet some of them couldn't even make change at a cash register unless it told them how much and spelled out the coins to grab.
 

Rusty PW

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When Principal canned about 70 or so of us IT people, (then turned around a week later and advertised for IT staff - yeah, new, lower, beginning wages) - anyway, I wasn't so far out from my automotive and basic machine background that I figured I couldn't get into either John Deere or Bridgestone/Firestone.
I was called to come in to Bridgestone and take some testing. Conference room, large table, about 30 of us in there. When I say basic testing, I mean BASIC testing. Images of a micrometer, what does it read. Images of a tape measure, what's the reading, if you have a spec of xxx and the mic reads yyy, what's the difference. Some basic math - subtract this decimal from this fraction, multiple or add some fractions, that sort of thing. Easy-peasy.
And yet out of that group, if I remember correctly, half failed to get half of the questions correct. Only a couple of us got over 90. I had no problems with it.
And yet - I wasn't called back! I suspect they wanted low wage people and saw what I had been making and my resume had them figuring I wasn't in it for the long haul. I was actually almost laughing when I left there thinking of how many didn't even get half of those silly questions correct. I bet some of them couldn't even make change at a cash register unless it told them how much and spelled out the coins to grab.
I've had a couple of job interviews where they told me that. I'm over qualified. That the money I made at my last job, they couldn't match. Had to take a welding test on one interview. i asked what the starting pay was before the test. They wouldn't tell me. So I welded the first piece and said this is what you get for $12.00 hr. It looked like shit. The second piece I welded. I said this is what you get for $20.00 hr. Not a bad weld, but it wasn't great either. The 3rd piece I welded. I said this is what you get for $40.00 hr. It was a masterpiece. The bead looked like dimes on their side. Other workers in the shop was watching and listening to what was going on. I must have pissed them off big time. They told me to leave NOW. LOL
 

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I've had a couple of job interviews where they told me that. I'm over qualified. That the money I made at my last job, they couldn't match. Had to take a welding test on one interview. i asked what the starting pay was before the test. They wouldn't tell me. So I welded the first piece and said this is what you get for $12.00 hr. It looked like shit. The second piece I welded. I said this is what you get for $20.00 hr. Not a bad weld, but it wasn't great either. The 3rd piece I welded. I said this is what you get for $40.00 hr. It was a masterpiece. The bead looked like dimes on their side. Other workers in the shop was watching and listening to what was going on. I must have pissed them off big time. They told me to leave NOW. LOL
Yeah, got called for a meeting with John Deere - it was more of a "presentation" to the bunch of us who had applied. I had made a lot more at both Principal and as a mechanic all those years, so they never called me back. Beginner welder started 14, experienced started at 25, all others started in the 12-14 range. Painters got more if I recall correctly. They since had to change their numbers after union issues and the economy changed back then (early 2000s)
My thing was I just wanted work and an income, but I see their points - get me trained and going and 8 to 12 months later I'm gone. Well, it was 22 months later as it turned out.
 

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Update: parts arrived on Tuesday, replaced the right rear assembly on Wednesday, leaking on Saturday (today). Is the conventional wisdom to take it back to the dealer and say "wanna give it another shot" or is there something I can do about this on my own? Also, it appears that it is leaking worse than before- a lot more oil is accumulating on the inside of my wheel.

Thanks all,
Update: Took it back to the shop so they could take more photos for Mopar and report to them. I've included the photos here:

Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652109071240
Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652109368833

It appears there may be enough of a machining error (arrow) on the housing to cause a leak- what are your thoughts? The service adviser and tech I am working with have claimed I am leaking about 1/4 quart a week- seems like a lot more than what appears on my wheel.
 

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Update: Took it back to the shop so they could take more photos for Mopar and report to them. I've included the photos here:

Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652109368833
Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652109368833

It appears there may be enough of a machining error (arrow) on the housing to cause a leak- what are your thoughts? The service adviser and tech I am working with have claimed I am leaking about 1/4 quart a week- seems like a lot more than what appears on my wheel.
32 ounces in a quart. A cup is 8 ounces, so 1/4 quart is a cup. Fill a measuring cup with some sort of oil and spray it around. You'll cover multiple wheels and have it dripping.
1/4 quart a week? I doubt it.

Your blue arrow points to where the bearing cup sits. Bearing first, then seal. The seal won't touch that area. In fact, the bearing cup is pressed up against that and is stationary. That nick won't do anything. The seal itself seals against that outer machined area, not that ledge. If there was any irregularities in the other parts, I might be concerned. The smooth shiny silver part on this back end of the arrow is what the outer rim of the seal seals against as far as the housing.
 

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32 ounces in a quart. A cup is 8 ounces, so 1/4 quart is a cup. Fill a measuring cup with some sort of oil and spray it around. You'll cover multiple wheels and have it dripping.
1/4 quart a week? I doubt it.

Your blue arrow points to where the bearing cup sits. Bearing first, then seal. The seal won't touch that area. In fact, the bearing cup is pressed up against that and is stationary. That nick won't do anything. The seal itself seals against that outer machined area, not that ledge. If there was any irregularities in the other parts, I might be concerned. The smooth shiny silver part on this back end of the arrow is what the outer rim of the seal seals against as far as the housing.
You are correct. The area I circled in red is suspect of where it might be leaking. The surface has several nicks and scratches.
Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652114648692
 

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I'm also curious if the depth here is the same on both sides. It could be that the seal isn't being located properly in the outer housing, but you would think that would result in axle end-play.
Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652114863619
 

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Update: Took it back to the shop so they could take more photos for Mopar and report to them. I've included the photos here:

Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652114863619
Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652114863619

It appears there may be enough of a machining error (arrow) on the housing to cause a leak- what are your thoughts? The service adviser and tech I am working with have claimed I am leaking about 1/4 quart a week- seems like a lot more than what appears on my wheel.
At the 3 o:clock position, there is 2 gouge marks. At the 7 o:clock position, there is a gouge mark. then all of the marks at the 5:30 to 6 o:clock position. Wish I could see the top section and the seal.
 

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It's normal to have some in and out axle play (approx. 1 mm). The bearing race/cup isn't pressed fits, can easily spin with just one finger. In short, it's a non preloaded bearing design.

Imo. It's very important to tights the retainer plate bolts evenly when installing the axle. Even with the axle inserted all the way in, the seal isn't in the tube until the retainer plate is torque down
 

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Update: Took it back to the shop so they could take more photos for Mopar and report to them. I've included the photos here:

Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652114863619
Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? 1652114863619

It appears there may be enough of a machining error (arrow) on the housing to cause a leak- what are your thoughts? The service adviser and tech I am working with have claimed I am leaking about 1/4 quart a week- seems like a lot more than what appears on my wheel.
What is the possibility that a defect in the shaft assembly did that to the housing? Did they take pictures of the original shaft assembly after removal?
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