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Let's talk about winter issues

saintpauljeff

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No Trak-Loc on my Sport S + max tow on stock Dueler ATs, but I had my first snow drive yesterday and everything seemed fine. I put the Tcase into 4H and it drove like a champ to work. I came from a Hummer H3 Alpha which had all the Torsen LSDs that took snow like a beast. Only thing I didn’t like was the full time 4x4 in the summer because it just rolled heavy, so I already enjoyed the JT on dry pavement immensely with its 2H.
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ShadowsPapa

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No Trak-Loc on my Sport S + max tow on stock Dueler ATs, but I had my first snow drive yesterday and everything seemed fine. I put the Tcase into 4H and it drove like a champ to work. I came from a Hummer H3 Alpha which had all the Torsen LSDs that took snow like a beast. Only thing I didn’t like was the full time 4x4 in the summer because it just rolled heavy, so I already enjoyed the JT on dry pavement immensely with its 2H.
That must be a Hummer thing as our other Jeeps with full-time roll along like ordinary cars. My WJ you would hardly know until you came to wet or slick roads or snow and ice - then you realize it's not an ordinary car.
Of course they are far far better balanced, too.
I will never forget when I pulled into the Jeep/Eagle dealership in Mason City one winter - used to seeing their Jeeps set up with snow plows. I pulled in and went in and realized - not a single Jeep had a plow on it!
I looked out at their south lot - guess what they had plows on..... Eagles. I asked about that because I was looking at getting one and they said the Eagle did a superior job with a plow because it was so very well balanced and the viscous coupling in the transfer case made
them almost unstoppable. I found the same thing after I got my first one (I'm on number 4 now with another sitting outside to re-body)
You can't get them stuck unless you did what I did - mess around in my 5 acre yard in the high snow drifts, climbing going up and over, through and so on until I went up onto a fairly tall drift and had this oh crap feeling - I was high centered on the drift. Sitting on the skid plates and floor pan basically. A shovel resolved that. Scooped out from under the car and drove away.
If the JT had a full-time option like some do - part time or full time besides 4L, and was better balanced, it would be a perfect Iowa winter snow vehicle. It's close, but the lack of a full-time OPTION like some trucks have where you have basically a 4L for 4 low, and a 4H lock, and a 4H full-time and better tires.. maybe some day. For now I guess I stress the transfer case or keep shifting in and out of 4H.

As far as non-snow and non-ice weather it's just about the most fun vehicle I have ever driven - and I've driven hundreds if not more as a mechanic and working in a shop where we did impound, worked on the narc confiscated cars and so on (talk about WOW cars they grabbed) and I would say it is the most fun truck I've ever driven. It's bloody comfortable - my back loves this thing and my legs don't get tired or cramped and when in cruise I have a place to put my foot! It actually fits between the pedals and under the brake pretty easily even for my 11s.
 

ShadowsPapa

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Anyone have experience with the Dueler H/T and snow?
Hey dude - that's what mine are - that's stock Overland.
Not thrilled withe them.
"OK" when in 4 wheel drive but very disappointing in a little snow mixed with ice, and they suck on just ice, absolutely horrible on ice,
Snow pack or snow helps them grab, but I definitely want better.
They are a "all weather highway tire". And you can tell they are for comfort, quiet and long life.
Bottom line - they suck on ice and aren't good in snow unless it's just snow with no slick spots - and it's ok when you shift to 4H
 

saintpauljeff

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I expected the JT to behave differently than my Hummer, that's part of the reason why I felt like getting one. The Colorado ZR2 felt like more of the same in my opinion when I test drove that. I needed something... new, and different. Expected the JT to not be as balanced because its a truck with an open bed, and I'm putting in sandbags for that reason. I did have Nitto Terragrapplers on that H3, maybe that's why your experience hasn't been so good, those stock all seasons can't be the greatest on non-dry terrain. The H3 stock tire was pretty similar to what I have now- Dueler ATs, albeit a couple inches larger.

I left the tcase in 4H the majority of my snow drive, because the straight roads pretty much had enough snow and the turns I made definitely had snow. Shifting the tcase will just become part of my routine, maybe that's part of the fun for me with this new 4x4 vehicle? A little more required action. :)
 

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MarineHawk

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Hey dude - that's what mine are - that's stock Overland.
Not thrilled withe them.
"OK" when in 4 wheel drive but very disappointing in a little snow mixed with ice, and they suck on just ice, absolutely horrible on ice,
Snow pack or snow helps them grab, but I definitely want better.
They are a "all weather highway tire". And you can tell they are for comfort, quiet and long life.
Bottom line - they suck on ice and aren't good in snow unless it's just snow with no slick spots - and it's ok when you shift to 4H
Dueller H/T:

rE8ZYCZ.jpg


I think you should try some better tires before you get too concerned about how bad your Gladi is in the snow.
 

ShadowsPapa

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Dueller H/T:

rE8ZYCZ.jpg


I think you should try some better tires before you get too concerned about how bad your Gladi is in the snow.
You are correct, sir, and that's exactly what I said I wanted to do in a couple of other threads. In fact I think I have a tire thread started somewhere asking advice on what would be best for MY SPECIFIC needs.
I honestly believe that with better tires for Iowa and with about 100 pound back of the rear wheels I'd be better off.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this truck, but I know I ended up with one more for casual drives on a nice road in good weather - mostly because of the tires.

I already see you saw my post saying the tires sucked on slick roads - Heck, even I slip and slide when I'm in smooth bottomed shoes, so I slip into my winter hiking boots and no problems.

PS - you answered in part a question I had - next step - charts on the other tires that have been suggested in the thread I started on tires where WXman and someone else commented. Good chart - COMFIRMS exactly my thoughts.
 

saintpauljeff

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ShadowsPapa

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I expected the JT to behave differently than my Hummer, that's part of the reason why I felt like getting one. The Colorado ZR2 felt like more of the same in my opinion when I test drove that. I needed something... new, and different. Expected the JT to not be as balanced because its a truck with an open bed, and I'm putting in sandbags for that reason. I did have Nitto Terragrapplers on that H3, maybe that's why your experience hasn't been so good, those stock all seasons can't be the greatest on non-dry terrain. The H3 stock tire was pretty similar to what I have now- Dueler ATs, albeit a couple inches larger.

I left the tcase in 4H the majority of my snow drive, because the straight roads pretty much had enough snow and the turns I made definitely had snow. Shifting the tcase will just become part of my routine, maybe that's part of the fun for me with this new 4x4 vehicle? A little more required action. :)
You hit on one reason I never converted my SX4 to automatic - the shifting is something to do in a car that otherwise simply goes.
Am looking for better tires - maybe wheels and tires and keep these for summer highway use and switch to others for fun and snow and garbage roads. The H/T is great on dry roads, excellent for MPG and the ride is absolutely AMAZING.
Several have suggested wheels and tires, and simply switching out - plus that way I'd have tires for life (well, almost)
 

Tim

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Some folks may recall how I talked about my Silverado not letting me horse around and squeal tires, mess around sliding around corners for kicks and such - well, the JT will allow that. So much for traction control, etc.
This AM my wife wanted some Christmas stamps - of course I obliged - an excuse to go drive the Jeep again. I figured on the way back I'd just see how stable that truck was. I knew the intersection where I needed to turn to head back home had some sand and a tiny bit of stuff left from yesterday so I slowed for my left turn and as I entered the turn, I mashed it - SQUEEEEEEAAAALLLLL as the right tire made a nice mark and the left tire I could hear was throwing sand, then the transmission kicked down (FINALLY) to low and WHAM - off I went, like a rocket.
(LOL - made me feel like a teen again)
We've mentioned how these transmissions tend to stay in a higher gear unlike past transmissions that may shift down to almost low - these often stick in 3 or 4 when cornering, I have to slow WAY down for mine to hit D2.
So - while my Chevy would have cut the gas and controlled the wheel spin, this thing did nothing of the sort and let the wheels spin freely until it downshifted then I lost the torque and momentum to keep the wheels broke loose and they grabbed. In short, it acted like I had mashed my Javelin's throttle.
I was shocked it let me squeal the tires and spin them like it did - even for a short time! The chevy would have slapped me down and cut the gas.
It makes me think perhaps Jeep only senses road speed by the rear wheels and figured, hey, they are both turning, no problem, where the Chevy sensed the front wheels were hardly turning at all - so choked back the rear wheels as well??
The Jeep would let the front and rear turn at different speeds, in short. It didn't calculate the truck was hardly moving based on the front wheels and it allowed the rears to easily break loose.

I need to buy the TSM for these things (the technical service manual - that's what we used to call them)
Do you think the heavier weight of the Silverado has anything to do with it? My Sierra (crew cab, 6.5' bed) had a curb weight of well over 1,000lbs more than my Gladiator.

I haven't really tried to "play" in my Gladiator, yet. I didn't get the tires to break free during a left turn in rain last week. To be fair I didn't really "give er" as I was more or less testing road conditions during rain at 33 degrees. Sadly we haven't had any real snow, yet.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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Do you think the heavier weight of the Silverado has anything to do with it? My Sierra (crew cab, 6.5' bed) had a curb weight of well over 1,000lbs more than my Gladiator.

I haven't really tried to "play" in my Gladiator, yet. I didn't get the tires to break free during a left turn in rain last week. To be fair I didn't really "give er" as I was more or less testing road conditions during rain at 33 degrees. Sadly we haven't had any real snow, yet.
Perhaps weight, too - but traction control should have kicked in and prevented my horsing around. Other vehicles will cut throttle and/or apply brakes and so on to maintain control. I was able to easily spin wheels - so what's that say about it on slick? That it could let some turn at different speeds - what traction control should help prevent.
One time is admittedly no real test at all. I need to try under different conditions and multiple times. And I have to admit - at one point that thing kicked down and it launched hard. Man if I could get my Jav to launch like that and bite the road hard and simply launch like a rocket like that JT did this AM.
 

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Hey dude - that's what mine are - that's stock Overland.
Not thrilled withe them.
"OK" when in 4 wheel drive but very disappointing in a little snow mixed with ice, and they suck on just ice, absolutely horrible on ice,
Snow pack or snow helps them grab, but I definitely want better.
They are a "all weather highway tire". And you can tell they are for comfort, quiet and long life.
Bottom line - they suck on ice and aren't good in snow unless it's just snow with no slick spots - and it's ok when you shift to 4H
Thanks! You wouldnt happen to know how the Falken M/T handle? Some reviews said they are surprisingly well and given I have my set in 255/75/17 making them relatively narrow, I hope they do better
 

MarineHawk

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These have been, by far, my favorite on/off road tire:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...DSTTPRWL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

Tirerack doesn't have enough feedback yet to create numerical ratings for them, partly because Tirerack started carrying them only fairly recently. The 33s actually weigh only 62 lbs -- a pound less than the stock Ruby AT tires. My 35s only weigh 67 lbs. 37s weigh 84 lbs.

There are 21 reviews on the link above. There are a few aberrative ones, including one mostly positive one that says they aren't good on ice. That's not my experience, and most who comment on that say they are great in ice and snow, which is what I've experienced. Most of them are very positive, consistent with my experience. I've tried GY MTRs, BFG ATs, MTs, Pro Comp MTs, and Nittos, and I keep coming back to these. Had them on my H2, H3, and now 35s on my JTR. We are supposed to get an inch of snow tonight, but the low is supposed to be 31, so I don't know if I will get to retest them meaningfully tomorrow a.m. Hopefully, we will get more than expected.
 

MarineHawk

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Here’s are some of my Cooper experiences:

XDPZRon.jpg


These are just last October in Colorado:

LtLpqYn.jpg


6P7pIyC.jpg


Next to the stock Rubby tires:

0t3LztS.jpg
 

Tim

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Perhaps weight, too - but traction control should have kicked in and prevented my horsing around. Other vehicles will cut throttle and/or apply brakes and so on to maintain control. I was able to easily spin wheels - so what's that say about it on slick? That it could let some turn at different speeds - what traction control should help prevent.
One time is admittedly no real test at all. I need to try under different conditions and multiple times. And I have to admit - at one point that thing kicked down and it launched hard. Man if I could get my Jav to launch like that and bite the road hard and simply launch like a rocket like that JT did this AM.
I wonder if it just comes down to tires? When the original tires on my Sierra were worn out I could spin them even on wet pavement just taking off from a stop light. Even with traction control trying to mitigate wheel spin it would still do it for a couple seconds before the computer could catch up. I would imagine that with worn or less aggressive tires there is just less available traction which can make it harder for the nannies to do their thing? When I replaced those tires with new tires I could no longer spin the tires. I would see the orange light come on on the dash from time to time but the intervention was imperceptible. I guess it didn't have to work as hard to control things with more suitable tires on the truck?

Of course, the above is all speculation on my part but I don't think anyone will argue that the stock Overland tires don't offer as much traction as say the Falken ATs.
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