Not impressed with Gladiator performance in snow

[Lloydrage]

Doesn’t a LSD fix these concerns

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[Bbannongmu]

Interesting responses. I'm very familiar with the 4x4 system in the Jeep, the Rover, and many other rigs out there (I said I was an experienced off-road enthusiast). The road was snow-covered with probably 3-4 inches of snow with maybe one set of tire tracks. No, I was not in 4-low. I can't think of any reason to use gear reduction on-road. As for people commenting about Select-Trac or whatever Jeep calls their automated 4x4 system vs the basic part-time system I have, its nonsense that Select-Trac would outperform Command-Trac on snow covered roads. After all, consider what the automatic system does...it supplies power to the front axle automatically when slip occurs using a clutch and sensors, up to 50-50 split front to rear. The Command-Trac part-time supplies 50-50 front to rear any time 4H or 4L is selected. The beauty of the Select-Trac is that it can be used seamlessly in changing conditions, and be left engaged on dry roads. Obviously Command-Trac is part time and needs to be disengaged on dry road. The old Range Rover has true permanent 4x4, using a geared center differential to send power to the front and rear 50-50 at all times; however that center diff is open and relies on a viscous coupling to control front-to-rear slip. It can apportion up to a 50-50 split as well, and it does so mechanically without the use of clutches or sensors. The thing is, I was on snow covered roads. I don't believe for a second "Select-Trac" would have performed any better, and frankly in these conditions I would have manually selected 4H "locked" anyway.

As for weight distribution, I did think the Gladiator probably had fairly good ratios. I've had (and still have) a heavy-duty pickup and in 2WD even with studded snows they are helpless. 4x4 is needed in snow basically all the time. But your typical half-ton crew cab short bed has pretty good weight distribution as well and they go much better in 2WD than the HD's.

I'm thinking its either my 10-ply Wildpeaks, possibly in combination with the wide footprint which might make the Jeep float on top of the snow vs dig into it.

I think it’s weight and tire inflation. I run D Rated Mickey Thompson 37x12.50 tires at 28psi. My Rubicon has steel bumpers, winch, topper, slide out, rock rails etc, running 5,800lbs and it feels well planted in snow. If it’s real deep I’ll run the rear locker in 4h (Tazer - mini). I must admit that I usually turn the traction control off - if it wet or icy I might turn it back on. I might never be as good as the Range Rover but I suspect you can improve with some weight and lowered air. Good luck !!

 

[troverman]

SOOOOO.... what you're saying is.....You're super great truck driver extraordinaire and you're admitting that you knew before driving it in the snow, it has the typical open differential, transfer case powered 4wd system and you know everything about it.

but THEN you complain that it acts in a completely predictable manner.

You're a food critic acting like you expect an Olive Garden to produce Michelin level service

Put some weight in the ass and get on with your life.

Sometimes what you're trying to say doesn't come across well when typed into a forum. I'm not trying to be hostile or a know it all. I'm not the best driver in the world. I simply have driven a lot of pickups and being perfectly honest, I'd say this Jeep goes the worst of all of them in snow. I guess that's what sparked this thread, as I was surpised and wanted to get the reaction and experience from others. Maybe it was the type of snow, or maybe its the tires. The part-time system I have is no different than what you'd find in most HD trucks or many half tons. The weight balance seems better on the JT than many trucks. Thus my surprise. I appreciate the responses from everyone. I'm contemplating a set of dedicated snows (I prefer the Blizzak DMV's) on Sport rims. I can also throw a little weight in the bed and see if that helps; just never had to do that with a half ton. Thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[berb]

I understand that you are an experienced driver, but you're comparing an SUV to a Pick Up Truck. The SUV has a considerable amount of weight over the rear wheels, thus pushing them into the snow giving you more traction than the Empty Truck Bed that has almost no weight over the rear wheels. People have made boxes with 2 X 4s and put cases of cat litter or sand or any form of weight directly over the rear wheels. You may be experienced, but driving a SUV in the snow vs a Truck are completely different things.

 

[troverman]

I understand that you are an experienced driver, but you're comparing an SUV to a Pick Up Truck. The SUV has a considerable amount of weight over the rear wheels, thus pushing them into the snow giving you more traction than the Empty Truck Bed that has almost no weight over the rear wheels. People have made boxes with 2 X 4s and put cases of cat litter or sand or any form of weight directly over the rear wheels. You may be experienced, but driving a SUV in the snow vs a Truck are completely different things.

Sure, no argument from me. However, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the Gladiator seems to perform worse in snow compared to the other pickups I've driven. In my initial post, I did compare it to an SUV because that's what I immediately had available to compare to on my test drive.

As a side note, how does a Wrangler JLU compare to a JT? I can't imagine there is that much weight difference over the rear axle between the two. The hardtop is light weight, the spare on the JT is all the way at the back too, the JT has a heavier duty frame at the rear, the bed is longer, etc.

 

[berb]

Sure, no argument from me. However, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the Gladiator seems to perform worse in snow compared to the other pickups I've driven. In my initial post, I did compare it to an SUV because that's what I immediately had available to compare to on my test drive.

As a side note, how does a Wrangler JLU compare to a JT? I can't imagine there is that much weight difference over the rear axle between the two. The hardtop is light weight, the spare on the JT is all the way at the back too, the JT has a heavier duty frame at the rear, the bed is longer, etc.

Believe it or not it does. My wife has a 4 door JL with Bridgestone Highway Tires. I have to work really hard to fishtail the JL in 2WD. I can fishtail the Gladiator with minimal effort.

 

[Swordfish44]

Not sure if this helpful but i have always, no matter what vehicle, kept my gas tank as full as possible when its snowing out for the added weight. Seems to help more in trucks than SUVs but i see slight improvements in both.

 

[stickshifter]

Sometimes what you're trying to say doesn't come across well when typed into a forum. I'm not trying to be hostile or a know it all. I'm not the best driver in the world. I simply have driven a lot of pickups and being perfectly honest, I'd say this Jeep goes the worst of all of them in snow. I guess that's what sparked this thread, as I was surpised and wanted to get the reaction and experience from others. Maybe it was the type of snow, or maybe its the tires. The part-time system I have is no different than what you'd find in most HD trucks or many half tons. The weight balance seems better on the JT than many trucks. Thus my surprise. I appreciate the responses from everyone. I'm contemplating a set of dedicated snows (I prefer the Blizzak DMV's) on Sport rims. I can also throw a little weight in the bed and see if that helps; just never had to do that with a half ton. Thanks again for the suggestions.

We live at 8500 feet, and winters are long. Lots of snow, lots of ice. We always run snow tires, and they are on our vehicles almost 6 months a year. I've tried many different brands / models. This is just my experience, and other folk might have different experience...

The Blizzaks were awesome in season 1, but seem to lose their traction after that. My sense is that the surface rubber of the tire is super-grippy on snow and ice, but it wears quickly.

There are a lot of good winter tires, and any winter tire will perform better in snow & ice than any AT tire. But our favorite winter tires - by far - are made by Nokian. We've run different models of Nokian winter tires on a Jeep JKU, Toyota 4-Runner, various Toyota pickup trucks, and a couple of sporty Audi sedans. Every one of these vehicles has performed great in the winter running Nokian tires. Sorry if I sounds like a fanboy, or a Nokian salesman; guilty on the first account, but innocent on the second

Our driveway last winter:

Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3 - perfect for the Gladiator (available with or without studs):

Lastly, Hakkapeliitta is a Finnish battle cry, loosely translated as "Cut them down!" - so why wouldn't you run these tires?

 

[troverman]

I've run the Hakka LT2's on my pickups. They were 10-ply and studded. Nokian advertises how their studs are more friendly to roads as they have a cushion of sorts. However, in my experience, the tires lost a lot of their studs in fairly short order. Also in my experience, the studless Blizzaks were superior, but it could have been just the vehicle they were on.

 

[stickshifter]

I've run the Hakka LT2's on my pickups. They were 10-ply and studded. Nokian advertises how their studs are more friendly to roads as they have a cushion of sorts. However, in my experience, the tires lost a lot of their studs in fairly short order. Also in my experience, the studless Blizzaks were superior, but it could have been just the vehicle they were on.

Ah - bummer. Its always interesting to me how experiences can vary. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Swordfish44]

We live at 8500 feet, and winters are long. Lots of snow, lots of ice. We always run snow tires, and they are on our vehicles almost 6 months a year. I've tried many different brands / models. This is just my experience, and other folk might have different experience...

The Blizzaks were awesome in season 1, but seem to lose their traction after that. My sense is that the surface rubber of the tire is super-grippy on snow and ice, but it wears quickly.

There are a lot of good winter tires, and any winter tire will perform better in snow & ice than any AT tire. But our favorite winter tires - by far - are made by Nokian. We've run different models of Nokian winter tires on a Jeep JKU, Toyota 4-Runner, various Toyota pickup trucks, and a couple of sporty Audi sedans. Every one of these vehicles has performed great in the winter running Nokian tires. Sorry if I sounds like a fanboy, or a Nokian salesman; guilty on the first account, but innocent on the second

Our driveway last winter:

Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3 - perfect for the Gladiator (available with or without studs):

Lastly, Hakkapeliitta is a Finnish battle cry, loosely translated as "Cut them down!" - so why wouldn't you run these tires?

Jesus Christ! What part of Colorado are you in? Must be in the mountains! We did get some SERIOUS snow last winter! even in the foothills

 

[stickshifter]

Jesus Christ! What part of Colorado are you in? Must be in the mountains! We did get some SERIOUS snow last winter! even in the foothills

That's up at our cabin at 11,000 feet in the San Juans. Didn't get that much at home at 8,500 feet.

 

[JTpanelsOFF]

Why would track width help?
You still have the same weight applied to the same tires on the same surface.
The exact same forces will still be pushing down on each tire no matter how wide you spread things

I see what you’re saying!

A wider track will help when turning/cornering, as less weight is going to be transferred. So, more traction and stability. The stock JT is long (long wheelbase) and narrow, so it throws its weight around. This makes the JT slide out/fishtail.

I also like to spread out the track because I tell myself that I’m more likely to drive over “better (less slippery) ground.”

 

[Chestnut]

To the OP my first thought is tires. If you have poor snow performance the best AWD system can only do so much if the tire is poor. This surprises me as the Falkens typically get good reviews for snow maybe they are too wide. I've never run them and only run dedicated snows.

I've tried many different brands / models. This is just my experience, and other folk might have different experience...

I've ran quite a few brands but never blizzaks, just due to a friend having them and he got stuck all the dang time we both had WRXs. Have you tried any of the general Arctic tires? I've had a few different over the years on subarus and RWD pickups and they've been my favorite. I Saw Nokian's but was unfamiliar with the name and tried general and never had any complaints to switch away. I'm looking for my wife's Forester and it'd be nice to add another brand to consider.

 

[stickshifter]

To the OP my first thought is tires. If you have poor snow performance the best AWD system can only do so much if the tire is poor. This surprises me as the Falkens typically get good reviews for snow maybe they are too wide. I've never run them and only run dedicated snows.



I've ran quite a few brands but never blizzaks, just due to a friend having them and he got stuck all the dang time we both had WRXs. Have you tried any of the general Arctic tires? I've had a few different over the years on subarus and RWD pickups and they've been my favorite. I Saw Nokian's but was unfamiliar with the name and tried general and never had any complaints to switch away. I'm looking for my wife's Forester and it'd be nice to add another brand to consider.

I haven't tried General winter tires, but I've heard good things about them.

Here is the thing: when you switch from an AT tire to a winter tire - any decent winter tire - the difference in winter traction is so much better that it feels like some sort of revelation (cue the angels playing trumpets). For real. Maybe the really cheap winter tires aren't so good, but once you get into the decent brands of winter tires, I think we start splitting hairs as to which is better (one might be a little better under certain conditions, another might wear a little longer, etc.). So if you are having good performance from General, I say stick with them!

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