Old school vs new school

[Rubicon Runnin' Bob]

Yeah I have a feeling that guy really has no clue what he's talking about. I just enjoyed the vehicles side by side, and to see his unscientific comparisons. I mean he didn't even air down, and the tires on the TJ were street tires compared to MTs on the JL. But still it was cool to see them following mostly the same line - it's a more objective comparison than I have seen others do. Isn't it funny though how most of these YouTubers who are making all sorts of cash on 'off road' vehicle videos more often than not dont know a lick about said vehicle they are driving?



Im not really sure what he was comparing prices to, but a mint 06 TJ rubicon is probably in the 18-22K range and a mint LJ rubicon is easily in the 30K range. They are practically collectors items now. I'm not talking about just a ready to run vehicle though, I'm talking about an all stock, or mostly stock, not heavily modified, ZERO rust, zero body damaged vehicle. To find those, and expect them to be under 25K is to be high. I see them all day long on a few TJ/LJ FB forums and frequently look up sale listings. Most of the sub 20K TJR/LJR options are rusted out pretty bad, or heavily modified

While I enjoyed watching, I certainly had some questions about the things he did at times

When he has over 20 years experience drivin'/wheelin' his "new to him" TJ, I'll then be much more interested in what he has to say.

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[chorky]

But $30k is still far less than a new JL or JT. If anyone on here actually preferred the TJ or LJ they'd own at least 1 in my opinion. It's like saying you prefer glocks over 1911's but you own a Wilson Combat 1911 and 0 glocks. The price difference and what you actually own and use tell the story.

Thats not entirely true though.

I have all 3. 06 TJ purchased in 2012ish, 06 LJ purchase a few months ago, 22 JTR purchased in 2022

I picked up the JTR because I sold my old diesel truck. It was a great truck but I didn't use it for what it was, it was heavy, and getting harder to find parts and qualified quality people to work on it. I am at a point in my life, due to medical stuff, that I really don't want to have to work on a vehicle. All the work I have done on the JTR, and the future work on the LJ will be for 'fun' and not a necessary thing (like fixing a leak or a problem). When I sold the OBS, I needed a 'truck' to replace it. At that time, I had zero intention of making a full on 'overlanding' rig like what the JTR has turned into. My purpose for buying the JTR was 1) needed a truck, 2) wanted something new, under warranty with a service plan so I didnt have to work on it, mostly because they are so complicated these days 3) wanted something that can 'easily' do 80 on the highway and 4) wanted a comfortable ride with extra comforts.

Absolutely, the JTR wins on the creature comforts and modern coolness. And is better riding than my TJ because the TJ needs some suspension work and repairs. However, for a backroads cruise, I much much prefer the LJ because it gives me that smile and enjoyment the JTR never will, despite the JTR currently being the primary camping and daily driving vehicle. The two do not have to be mutually inclusive. It's like someone saying their motorcycle is their favorite vehicle but still commutes in a Honda civic.... Once the LJ is outfitted, which will probably take a year, I am 90% confident that for the standard weekend trip, I will prefer to take the LJ - and at that point the JTR will primarily be the daily chore vehicle and week long camping trip vehicle. If that makes sense anyway.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I didn’t buy TJ because I have 3 ZJs. This truck serves a different purpose so regardless wether a Tacoma, Frontier, etc would have ended up with a truck. It’s not delusional, if everyone says that then are we all delusional….or do we know it’s better. Mhmmmm

So you own 4 Jeeps and no TJs, but prefer the TJ? Actions>words. I put my money where my mouth is and having owned over a dozen different Jeeps from TJ, to ZJ, to WJ to JK to FSJ none were close to as good as the JL and JT. Not on road or off period. Show me a TJb with a basic 3.5" lift that and 39s that can cruise comfortably 1,100 to moab at 85mph, air down, and ruin cliffhanger, Pritchet canyon, etc, and drive home like it's never left the road. Show me the TJ that's stable in a desert wash at 80+ mph with nothing but a 2" spacer lift and even better on road than the JLUR. I'm not sure on what system of measurement you feel the TJ is better, but I can't think of 1.. No the 4.0L is not better than the 3.6L anywhere either. The 4.0L was barely sufficient on a stock 3k lb tj. Same tj would be a rocket with a 3.6L and get 25+ mpg. No 12s 0-60 was not better than sub 7 seconds. They were simple and more maneuverable by that's about the only advantages I can think of.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Thats not entirely true though.

I have all 3. 06 TJ purchased in 2012ish, 06 LJ purchase a few months ago, 22 JTR purchased in 2022

I picked up the JTR because I sold my old diesel truck. It was a great truck but I didn't use it for what it was, it was heavy, and getting harder to find parts and qualified quality people to work on it. I am at a point in my life, due to medical stuff, that I really don't want to have to work on a vehicle. All the work I have done on the JTR, and the future work on the LJ will be for 'fun' and not a necessary thing (like fixing a leak or a problem). When I sold the OBS, I needed a 'truck' to replace it. At that time, I had zero intention of making a full on 'overlanding' rig like what the JTR has turned into. My purpose for buying the JTR was 1) needed a truck, 2) wanted something new, under warranty with a service plan so I didnt have to work on it, mostly because they are so complicated these days 3) wanted something that can 'easily' do 80 on the highway and 4) wanted a comfortable ride with extra comforts.

Absolutely, the JTR wins on the creature comforts and modern coolness. And is better riding than my TJ because the TJ needs some suspension work and repairs. However, for a backroads cruise, I much much prefer the LJ because it gives me that smile and enjoyment the JTR never will, despite the JTR currently being the primary camping and daily driving vehicle. The two do not have to be mutually inclusive. It's like someone saying their motorcycle is their favorite vehicle but still commutes in a Honda civic.... Once the LJ is outfitted, which will probably take a year, I am 90% confident that for the standard weekend trip, I will prefer to take the LJ - and at that point the JTR will primarily be the daily chore vehicle and week long camping trip vehicle. If that makes sense anyway.

And if that's what you say you prefer AND you're building/ driving one 1 believe you. Those that say they prefer the TJ/LJ and don't currently (and for some never) own one they are kidding themselves.

 

[chorky]

So you own 4 Jeeps and no TJs, but prefer the TJ? Actions>words. I put my money where my mouth is and having owned over a dozen different Jeeps from TJ, to ZJ, to WJ to JK to FSJ none were close to as good as the JL and JT. Not on road or off period. Show me a TJb with a basic 3.5" lift that and 39s that can cruise comfortably 1,100 to moab at 85mph, air down, and ruin cliffhanger, Pritchet canyon, etc, and drive home like it's never left the road. Show me the TJ that's stable in a desert wash at 80+ mph with nothing but a 2" spacer lift and even better on road than the JLUR. I'm not sure on what system of measurement you feel the TJ is better, but I can't think of 1.. No the 4.0L is not better than the 3.6L anywhere either. The 4.0L was barely sufficient on a stock 3k lb tj. Same tj would be a rocket with a 3.6L and get 25+ mpg. No 12s 0-60 was not better than sub 7 seconds. They were simple and more maneuverable by that's about the only advantages I can think of.

And if that's what you say you prefer AND you're building/ driving one 1 believe you. Those that say they prefer the TJ/LJ and don't currently (and for some never) own one they are kidding themselves.

Ahh ok I see what you're saying now. Yeah makes sense. I will also offer some contenxt too that 'it depends'. By that I just mean, there is context to consider in a particular person's use case. Using your example above, if I were the type of person that wanted 40's and tons, then absolutely the JT/JL is the way to go hands down no convo needed. But, for me anyway, that is not my use case. I dont know if I will ever even put 35's on the JT. I want to, but that's the lowest item on the list, for me. Same with the TJ/LJ. I have 33's on the TJ with a 4" lift. It's too tall. I struggle to get in and out of it. The LJ being stock with 30's is easy to get in and out of. I think a 2" OME with 31's-33's would be a perfect combination and still easy enough to get into. But that is me. Other people would jump at a 6" lift and 37's with a Hemi swap, a full cage, etc...... So I guess some context needs to be taken into consideration as well, because 37's on a TJ/LJ takes some pretty significant work - cutting, welding, etc.. But 37's on a JT/JL can happen almost stock.

 

[ZeeJay]

So you own 4 Jeeps and no TJs, but prefer the TJ? Actions>words. I put my money where my mouth is and having owned over a dozen different Jeeps from TJ, to ZJ, to WJ to JK to FSJ none were close to as good as the JL and JT. Not on road or off period. Show me a TJb with a basic 3.5" lift that and 39s that can cruise comfortably 1,100 to moab at 85mph, air down, and ruin cliffhanger, Pritchet canyon, etc, and drive home like it's never left the road. Show me the TJ that's stable in a desert wash at 80+ mph with nothing but a 2" spacer lift and even better on road than the JLUR. I'm not sure on what system of measurement you feel the TJ is better, but I can't think of 1.. No the 4.0L is not better than the 3.6L anywhere either. The 4.0L was barely sufficient on a stock 3k lb tj. Same tj would be a rocket with a 3.6L and get 25+ mpg. No 12s 0-60 was not better than sub 7 seconds. They were simple and more maneuverable by that's about the only advantages I can think of.

Ok, you are obviously right, have a nice day.

 

[ZeeJay]

Ahh ok I see what you're saying now. Yeah makes sense. I will also offer some contenxt too that 'it depends'. By that I just mean, there is context to consider in a particular person's use case. Using your example above, if I were the type of person that wanted 40's and tons, then absolutely the JT/JL is the way to go hands down no convo needed. But, for me anyway, that is not my use case. I dont know if I will ever even put 35's on the JT. I want to, but that's the lowest item on the list, for me. Same with the TJ/LJ. I have 33's on the TJ with a 4" lift. It's too tall. I struggle to get in and out of it. The LJ being stock with 30's is easy to get in and out of. I think a 2" OME with 31's-33's would be a perfect combination and still easy enough to get into. But that is me. Other people would jump at a 6" lift and 37's with a Hemi swap, a full cage, etc...... So I guess some context needs to be taken into consideration as well, because 37's on a TJ/LJ takes some pretty significant work - cutting, welding, etc.. But 37's on a JT/JL can happen almost stock.

That’s the key, what is the plan with it, where is it being used, how is it being used.

 

[skiptheroad]

Most of the comparisons were geared towards the TJ. There’s no way that thing is more fun to drive.

On the trail yes, on the road no. Wish I still owned my '04 TJR.

 

[Camaroboi13]

On the trail yes, on the road no. Wish I still owned my '04 TJR.

My wife, my buddy, and myself all did the same trail with our Apple Watches on. At the end of the trail, my watch showed I did 36 minutes of exercise. My wife in her JLU showed 67 minutes of exercise. My buddy in his 04 TJ had 117 minutes of exercise. So basically on the same trail he was getting tossed around nearly 4 times as much as I was in his TJ. That doesn’t sound like more fun to me.

 

[skiptheroad]

My wife, my buddy, and myself all did the same trail with our Apple Watches on. At the end of the trail, my watch showed I did 36 minutes of exercise. My wife in her JLU showed 67 minutes of exercise. My buddy in his 04 TJ had 117 minutes of exercise. So basically on the same trail he was getting tossed around nearly 4 times as much as I was in his TJ. That doesn’t sound like more fun to me.

It's all a matter of perspective. My TJ suited my use case very well. I admit, some of my wish to have my TJ back is nostalgic. Lots of great memories wheelin with my kids when they were just little snots but that little Jeep was tough and not one issue with it during six years of ownership. I don't recall nearly the amount of whining about quality issues on the TJ forum back in those days as I see on this and the JL forums nowadays.

 

[Camaroboi13]

I don't recall nearly the amount of whining about quality issues on the TJ forum back in those days as I see on this and the JL forums nowadays.

I will never disagree with you there ?
I was never a TJ guy but felt like my XJ would go anywhere on 32” tires. I could cave a door in, go home and pop the door panel off and kick the door back out. It was a fun rig but I’m glad I moved on.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's weird to me that so many say that on this and the JL forum, while driving a rig that costs 2-5x what you could pick up a mint low mileage TJ for? Saying you'd pick the TJ when you not only didn't you spent way more to pick the JT/JL over it is delusional. Every person on these forums could be driving a TJ if they really thought it was better and they'd save a bunch of money doing so.

I get what you say, but sometimes hopping into my 82 SX4 to head to town or whatever is actually fun or relaxing. If I was not in the snow belt, but was where there was some off-roading that was mostly sand and dust and some rocks, I'd likely take that car out (about done with the show stuff - I've made my awards and trophies and proven some things)

I have a foot in both worlds.
But - would I say "this is my primary vehicle and daily driver for long trips" and such?
No - the JT or JLU win there.

Each has their place. Maybe some of those you refer to have not come out of the daydreaming yet?

If I could grab the TJ my wife's aunt drives for cheap - I would.. But it would be for fun trips around here, whatever. And there's one that sits in a yard about 2 blocks from where we go to church and I swear it's not been moved in over a year unless they are danged good at putting those wheels back in the came tracks each time.

 

[rr11]

I have a 05 TJ, while it is not as good on the interstate as my JT I have serious doubts that my JT will be in the same shape in 19 years. The simplicity of the TJ reduces electrical issues.

 

[Biff Happy]

Have an ‘06 Lj rubicon (gr8tops half cab, 4 foot bed scrambler style) would take it anywhere, even highway, ride is ok to me, always thought the seats were the best jeep did for long sitting, ‘97-‘02 (had an ‘02 sport tj) were too high and back support was too low, with the 4.0L and slow old truck 6 speed you gots slow take offs and highway passing ain’t happening, I’ll agree, but it’s built for low speed driving anyway, faster than 65mph and you watch your gas gauge fall (yay 13 mph!). Besides if you can’t fix something on it, you probably can’t run a wrench.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Have an ‘06 Lj rubicon (gr8tops half cab, 4 foot bed scrambler style) would take it anywhere, even highway, ride is ok to me, always thought the seats were the best jeep did for long sitting, ‘97-‘02 (had an ‘02 sport tj) were too high and back support was too low, with the 4.0L and slow old truck 6 speed you gots slow take offs and highway passing ain’t happening, I’ll agree, but it’s built for low speed driving anyway, faster than 65mph and you watch your gas gauge fall (yay 13 mph!). Besides if you can’t fix something on it, you probably can’t run a wrench.

I'll give you that under extremely limited use cases the TJ driving experience may be more enjoyable if not just for the nostalgia and simplicity. That is what makes the JL so impressive though. Infinitely better on the freeway in comfort, handling, accelerating even up the steepest grades, etc and yet still somehow even better off road especially if you're talking a JLUR with the XR package. 35s from the factory. 4.56 gears. The best auto trans ever put in a Jeep. An 86-1 crawl ratio from the factory (with the torque converter it crawls like a manual with 120-1). AC that keeps you cool even wheeling on the desert at 120⁰. Insulated enough that it keeps you warm snow wheeling well below 0⁰. If it's better on and off rosa in virtually all conditions and especially the extreme ones, how is it even a discussion which one is better?

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