Ordering Sport S with Max Tow

[ShadowsPapa]

The Gladiator is competing for Maverick/Ranger/Santa Cruz/Taco/Colorado/Ridgeline sales.
In that class it is certainly very competitive in all the categories you list, and superior when it comes to aftermarket/off-road options.

More good points.
Accessories, options, full frame (that latter being something I care about for some reason)
And - if I get healed up, recovered health-wise, and otherwise and we decide to get out a bit more - I DO have the ability to do mild off-roading full-stock in the JT.
It's also fun. There's a great aspect. I get a lot of comments and questions on it when out and about..
It took some deep dips and sharp hills and climbing in loose dirt and dust and did fine as it is, imagine with just a tad of tweaking (can't wait to mess with the Rubicon electric sway bar on this thing)

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[Dartboy]

All Gladiators since inception with 2020 MY had AGM batteries for both the main and aux battery. Until around 2023 or so, the base main battery was a AGM H6 size 600A battery. If you got a package like MAX TOW or the Aux Switch package, that bumped the main battery to a AGM H7 size 740A battery and a 240A alternator.

I know at least with 2024+, all Gladiators got the AGM H7 740A battery and 240A alternator standard regardless of package. One would still have to get MAX TOW option though to get the heavy duty cool fan.

I just swapped out the main battery in my '21 Max Tow (w/o Aux switches) The 94R H7 I put in is bigger than the battery I pulled out, had to remove the spacer in the battery tray and the insulating blanket doesn't fit anymore. Not the first time I've seen a "we don't have the right part so just put in what we have" around here. Thanks, Jeep

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just swapped out the main battery in my '21 Max Tow (w/o Aux switches) The 94R H7 I put in is bigger than the battery I pulled out, had to remove the spacer in the battery tray and the insulating blanket doesn't fit anymore. Not the first time I've seen a "we don't have the right part so just put in what we have" around here. Thanks, Jeep

You put a bigger battery in, not Jeep. Can't blame them at all.
If it had come with the larger battery, it would have come with the larger cover..

This was NOT a case of "we don't have the right part" - it was a case of that is what was standard for that Jeep at that time. Not a "we don't have the right battery"- Not sure where the heck you are getting that!
That was the standard, CORRECT, battery for your Jeep model when built. Not a mistake or ran out of batteries thing.
No aux switches got the smaller battery in 2020 and 2021 - it was by design, not a mistake.

 

[MPMB]

Leg room - agree.
Head room hasn't been an issue even for my 6'2" son.
Shoulder room? Never noticed a problem. I don't wear football shoulder pads in it.
Rear seat - my son says it's better than the rear seat my Silverado had.
Gas mileage could be better, but it's a brick.. I'm getting too old to care.
Bed volume is just fine. I can haul an amazing load of stuff in it and have pictures for proof - from plywood to 12' steel poles.. I have trailers if I need more.
Payload sucks. But - I have trailers.
Towing capacity - I only need to tow 5,000-6,000 pounds. I don't care if it can't tow 8,000 pounds!

My points are related to the unlikely scenario that IF Jeep upped towing capability (8000#+), the truck would likely be bumped up to Class 2a trucks, which is full-size trucks, and *everything* gets compared, and the JT would be last in nearly all market-relevant attributes.

Corporate build decisions are based on the *majority* of buyer's needs. So even if the JT could easily handle extra towing, moving up a class would penalize it in the market horribly.

 

[MPMB]

Ford doesn't publish Rator sales separate from the F150 line as a whole, but the best estimates I can find are 20-30k per year. The gladiator sales between 73k and 43k per year. But 8-10 will choose the overpriced truck that's a whale by comparison and yet only tows 500lbs more while selling half as many trucks? Must be that common core math they are teaching kids these days? As a whole I agree most truck buyers could care less about off road capabilities. Those that butyJeeps on the other hand? I'd guess it's more than half easy. I'm a huge Jeep fan, but wouldn't but a JT or a wrangler if I wasn't taking it off road. There are far better street trucks inside and outside the brand. If you want a road only SUV buy a grand cherokee. Road only truck get a Ram. There are clear and obvious compromises in the JL/JT that make them great off road but make them worse dailies and street vehicles period.

Like usual, your reading comprehension fails you.

In 2024, 2.9m trucks were sold in the US. But MOST TRUCK BUYERS BUY TRUCKS NOT BECAUSE OF TRUCK CAPABILITIES. People think they want the stuff trucks can do, or plan on doing trucks stuff, but never do.

There's a subset of SUV and truck buyers that enjoy off-roading - that's a few million people, but in terms of buyers, it's a much smaller amount, since they've already bought a vehicle, so it's a % that cycles through over a period of time (probably 6-7 years), replacing their older vehicle.

9.17m SUV sales + 2.9m Truck sales = 12.07m vehicles.

42k were of those trucks were JTs (JTs peaked at 74k in '22). That's 1.4% of the market. The estimates of the F150 in Raptor trims? 30k. In the scheme of things, that's pretty damn even.

Those 30k Raptors represent 3.6% of the F-Series sales; or 6.5% of the F150 line. I could probably come up with some reasonable estimates of the F150 trim breakouts, but I don't have time for that right now.

So yes. When given an option in the marketplace whether a buyer would choose a Gladiator or a Raptor/TRX/Tremor, given that they might go off-road at some point (but probably not to Moab, that's just too far to go just to drive off-road trails), they can get a "kick-ass" V8 instead of a <300hp V6 with roughly the same gas mileage, more room, better payload and towing... the buyer is going to choose the Raptor/TRX/Tremor more often than not. It's not opinion. It's the numbers.

 

[MPMB]

You are comparing 2 (actually 3) different markets. The JT isn't competing with full size trucks, and it certainly isnt competing with with full-size performance trucks like the Raptor and TRX.

The Gladiator is competing for Maverick/Ranger/Santa Cruz/Taco/Colorado/Ridgeline sales.
In that class it is certainly very competitive in all the categories you list, and superior when it comes to aftermarket/off-road options.

And hell; for all their size, horsepower, and cost, the Raptor and TRX both have less payload capacity than a base JT with the $2k max tow package, and only slightly higher towing capacity.

You are missing the very important "IF" I included in my first post.

I know the JT is in the mid-size pick-up market and is competitive in all categories except power and MPG.

It's the argument people want for increasing the JTs towing capacity - it will never happen. In doing so, the JT would likely be bumped up to Class 2a, out of Class 1 pickups. Class 2a pickups all tow 8000-12,000# (or something like that), significantly more than the 7700# the Max Tow is rated for.

 

[Dartboy]

It was my understanding that the Max Tow package upgraded the battery along with the alternator. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong

 

[Zachanadandy]

Like usual, your reading comprehension fails you.

In 2024, 2.9m trucks were sold in the US. But MOST TRUCK BUYERS BUY TRUCKS NOT BECAUSE OF TRUCK CAPABILITIES. People think they want the stuff trucks can do, or plan on doing trucks stuff, but never do.

There's a subset of SUV and truck buyers that enjoy off-roading - that's a few million people, but in terms of buyers, it's a much smaller amount, since they've already bought a vehicle, so it's a % that cycles through over a period of time (probably 6-7 years), replacing their older vehicle.

9.17m SUV sales + 2.9m Truck sales = 12.07m vehicles.

42k were of those trucks were JTs (JTs peaked at 74k in '22). That's 1.4% of the market. The estimates of the F150 in Raptor trims? 30k. In the scheme of things, that's pretty damn even.

Those 30k Raptors represent 3.6% of the F-Series sales; or 6.5% of the F150 line. I could probably come up with some reasonable estimates of the F150 trim breakouts, but I don't have time for that right now.

So yes. When given an option in the marketplace whether a buyer would choose a Gladiator or a Raptor/TRX/Tremor, given that they might go off-road at some point (but probably not to Moab, that's just too far to go just to drive off-road trails), they can get a "kick-ass" V8 instead of a <300hp V6 with roughly the same gas mileage, more room, better payload and towing... the buyer is going to choose the Raptor/TRX/Tremor more often than not. It's not opinion. It's the numbers.

30k is pretty even to 45-70? More Grey math. If a full size truck works for you, which it clearly does for most by the numbers that nobody was arguing, then why would you buy a JT if offroading wasn't even a consideration? That's not the market for the gladiator and never was. The JT is a Jeep 1st and a truck second. I wouldn't buy one for the street only and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Of course there's the price difference between the raptor/trx/tremor coming in close to six figures loaded and the JT at half that but under you're made up "facts' there should be 0 JT sales.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Corporate build decisions are based on the *majority* of buyer's needs.

I wonder - if that were 100% true, would the JT even exist?

I know the JT is in the mid-size pick-up market and is competitive in all categories except power and MPG.

It's the argument people want for increasing the JTs towing capacity - it will never happen.

I don't understand anyone really wanting to increase towing capacity. I mean - they just aren't thinking inside of reality.
It can't happen in this form and likely won't because there's the Dakota.

Chrysler killed off Plymouth, GM killed Olds off - overlap. Not needed. They won't push Jeep against their own Ram.

If a full size truck works for you, which it clearly does for most by the numbers that nobody was arguing, then why would you buy a JT if offroading wasn't even a consideration?

I don't want a full-size truck. Been there, done that. Too big, bulky, cumbersome when a much smaller truck does all of MY chores fine.
A bigger truck was just over-kill. I've had several big trucks, mostly 3/4 ton then when the 1/2 ton versions became more capable, went from 3/4 to 1/2.
And now that a smaller truck can do that, I moved down again.

Off-roading isn't a consideration for me - at least not the initial reason. Never entered into it.
Flexibility, size, familiarity, options/accessories and so on. Most of the JTs sold in the midwest, especially our area, will never see that sort of use yours sees a lot of.

Full frame, tough as nails because it's built to handle off-road stuff. That means it's tough enough for my abuse.
I DOWN-sized. I'll never own a full-size truck again, and won't have a unibody truck (imagine the load my snow plow would put on one)

 

[JmattNYC]

I'd venture that 90%+ of truck buyers give a f-all to off-road capability. The point is that the JT will lose on virtually every marketing point - the vehicle aspects that the majority of buyers want (or think that they want) - when up against a full-size competitor.

The vast majority of buyers want: comfort, space, and MPGs.

Leg room? Not the JT.
Head room? Not the JT.
Shoulder room? Not the JT.
Rear seat leg room? Not the JT.
Rear seat shoulder room? Not the JT.
Rear seat 3rd seat space? Not the JT.
Gas mileage? Not the JT.
Bed volume? Not the JT.
Payload? Not the JT.
Towing capacity? Not the JT.

The JT can say it's the only convertible. Smaller turning radius - Yes. So obviously, because of its size it will be more maneuverable in the city and the crammed parking lots vs. the full-size trucks.

But only a small % of the buyers care about off-road specs. And 8 out 10 of those buyers will choose one of the more fun options - Raptor/TRX - and b**ch about the trails being too narrow.

Some of those things are true however the JT has the fun factor that none of them has! After buying three i still love them and will most likely get into a new one before the close out of this gen.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Some of those things are true however the JT has the fun factor that none of them has! After buying three i still love them and will most likely get into a new one before the close out of this gen.

I'm on my third for a reason - and it's NOT that the others were bad!

 

[Blade1668]

Well, 4.10 ratio upgrade was nicer on JL because those had 3.45 standard. But on JT 3.73 was standard, so upgrading to 4.10 was only giving a guy 150 RPM on the tachometer, which is indetectable.

The slightly higher capacity battery, fan, and alternator are things that 99.99% of people will never even notice.

The wider axles were what, ¾” wider? Three quarters of one inch isn’t nothing, but it’s not that big of a deal either.

I guess the biggest part of the Max Tow package was the payload rating being a little higher. That mattered a lot for guys who were trying to stay within the book published numbers when they were towing their campers.

But overall, I just felt the package had minor upgrades for the cost, which I recall being $1k.

Don't know all of that, but I can think of a few other things, hauling the rated amount of bagged concrete in mine (several times) and it didn't handle any different. I pulled close to 10 more miles to a gallon than most non Max-Tow. That was even after replacing the front bumper and a winch... not a light weight bumper but for more protection. I do know heavier duty rear springs. Mine came with the AT tires, after wearing them out I put on a set of the standard HT tires from another member here truck, lost about 7 mpg fuel economy. So there is a little more in the sauce of the Max-Tow package I believe. Mine was unfortunately built before the Trac-Loc became standard in the package... I actually hoped I would "get the right axle shaft leak" that was a thing there for awhile. Considering the quick fix was complete axles assembly.

A though on full floating rear axle on why the axle shaft isn't holding the weight load just the twisting load of moving the vehicle, if it snaps pull out broken inner shaft still the out stub in and drive out. Keeping the gear oil in housing.

On room in JT vs other trucks of same size not many are close.... as over 6' individual and not a small guy. Most of the other really suck on space. A prime example the Nissan is flat out hell to ride in or drive IMHO. In Nov. close to 3000 miles in one on a road trip, and that vehicle got worse gas mileage too.

I'm on my third for a reason - and it's NOT that the others were bad!

What it's not to match your new shoes.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What it's not to match your new shoes.

LOL - talk about thinking on your feet.

My wife does have purple shoes (Sketchers) and purple socks.

I wonder what sort of looks I'd get if I bought a pair of shoes that matches a mojito Jeep?

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