Sponsored

Sport S with Max tow the way to go?

Mikegcny

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
329
Reaction score
457
Location
New York, NY and NOFO, NY
Vehicle(s)
2024 Wrangler Willys 4xe
Occupation
Software Architect
Dang, how did you already get that installed?

That says it won't even arrive until Nov. 14 - 19.

Wait, I bet you got the Premium Max Time-Travel feature.
Am I missing something? It's February 2020.

Edit:. I see the logic now.
 

Montanagirl

New Member
First Name
Laurie
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Location
Kalispell, MT
Vehicle(s)
2002 Jeep TJ Sport; 62 Willys PU
This is an interesting vid talking about payload and Sport S vs. Rubi
 
OP
OP
JustinWPI11

JustinWPI11

Active Member
First Name
Justin
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
43
Reaction score
63
Location
Gorham, Maine
Vehicle(s)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, 2020 Jeep Gladiator
Thanks again for all the input. Went ahead and bought a Sport S with Max tow off a local dealer lot. Got a price I was very happy with. Picking it up today! The payload difference was a big factor.
 

Sponsored

MarineHawk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
526
Reaction score
634
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
Vehicle Showcase
1
This is an interesting vid talking about payload and Sport S vs. Rubi
Some of what he says is illogical to me. He says if you have an 1,100 lb payload capacity, and IF you have 700 lbs of people and 100 lbs of gear in the back, you have only 300 lbs of payload left, which means you then have only 300 lbs of payload/tongue weight left to pull a 3,000 lb trailer.

Correct.

But you could just throw the 100 lbs of gear into the trailer instead of the back of the truck, and then you would have 400 lbs of payload/tongue weight available to haul a 4,000 lb trailer.

In any event, I’m glad my family doesn’t weigh 700 lbs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BAT

PyrPatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Threads
193
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,859
Location
Kentucky, USA
Vehicle(s)
JT Sport S Max Tow; Honda Element
Some of what he says is illogical to me. He says if you have an 1,100 lb payload capacity, and IF you have 700 lbs of people and 100 lbs of gear in the back, you have only 300 lbs of payload left, which means you then have only 300 lbs of payload/tongue weight left to pull a 3,000 lb trailer.

Correct.

But you could just throw the 100 lbs of gear into the trailer instead of the back of the truck, and then you would have 400 lbs of payload/tongue weight available to haul a 4,000 lb trailer.

In any event, I’m glad my family doesn’t weigh 700 lbs.
6'2 250lb man, 5'11 150lb wife, two teenage boys at 150lbs each is 700lbs, as an example. As for the "100lbs of gear in the back", for me that would be about 50lbs of recovery gear plus rifle, mags, fire extinguisher, and water inside the cab. So without my Max Tow I have 300lbs of payload left. With my max tow I have 750lbs of payload, meaning I can have near the full 7650lbs of towing if I needed. Now I know, what about the weight in the vehicle taking away from towing performance? The towing limitation is based on weight, cooling being the thing to overcome. The rating is under the SAE J2870 standard of towing determination (revised in 2016 and again in 2020, for what it's worth, interesting to note but I don't know the difference because I'm not paying $83 to access the publication https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j2807_202002/)

Here are the main test methods trucks would be measured on as per J2807:

  • Cooling capability on a long highway upgrade modeled on the Davis Dam grade on Arizona SR 68 at 100 degrees C temperature outside;
    • The Davis Dam Grade Arizona State Route 68 is a stretch of road that starts in the Davis Dam area of the Colorado River, close to Laughlin, Nevada, and Bullhead City, Arizona, with an elevation of just about 550 feet. This stretch of highway travels through the Black Mountains and climbs to Highway 93 near Kingman, Arizona. The section used for the SAE J2807 Highway Gradeability Test starts just past the intersection of SR 68 and Highway 95 outside of Laughlin and climbs to more than 3,500 feet in just 11.4 miles.
    • In addition to a hot climate outside the truck, the test requires the air conditioning system to be set at maximum cold, with outside air selected (not recirculating) and the fan running at full blower speed.
  • Launch and acceleration performance on a level road and a 12 percent upgrade;
    • a truck must be able to launch and travel 16 feet (5 meters) uphill, five times in a row, in 5 minutes or less. Then, the truck and trailer has to be able to complete the same test while launching up a 12 percent grade in Reverse.
  • A truck-and-trailer combination must be able to drive at 40 mph (35 mph for dualies) and never drop below that speed until the end of the test segment at the peak of Union Pass.
  • Combined handling performance – understeer and trailer sway;
    • Understeer (the opposite of fishtailing) is measured at three different levels of Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR), which is a calculation of how much the load on the front axle changes.
  • Combined braking performance – stopping distance and parking brake-hold on grade; and
    • Combos with a maximum tow rating of more than 3,000 pounds are required to stop completely from 20 mph in 80 feet or less. During this stop test, the trailer must remain within an 11.5-foot-wide lane throughout the entire stop. In addition to the active testing, the parking brake must be able to hold the truck and trailer firmly in place both upward and downward on a 12 percent grade when it is at the maximum GCWR.
  • Structural performance for the vehicle and hitch or hitch receiver.

It assumes
  • For light-duty full-size pickups (GVWR < 8,500 lbs.), SAE J2807 assumes that the tow vehicle includes any options with higher than 33 percent penetration;
  • It assumes there is both a driver and passenger in the vehicle, each weighing 150 pounds;
  • It assumes that tow vehicles also include up to 70 pounds of aftermarket hitch equipment (where applicable); and
  • For conventional trailer towing, SAE J2807 assumes that 10 percent of the trailer weight is on the tongue.
Citations
https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering-behind-the-jeep-gladiators-tow-rating-1833657453
https://jalopnik.com/what-is-sae-j2807-what-does-it-mean-for-trucks-1593305929
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard/

The JT is a GVRW of 12,500lbs so it fits the requirement. Assuming 300lbs of occupants means that weight can be disregarded from payload deducting from towing capacity. So for non-12% grade towing I'll be fine with my Max Tow, family and gear, and a 7000lb trailer. Will it struggle? probably. But the point is when you consider HOW FCA determined their claimed towing numbers you see that without the grueling conditions the JT Max Tow is capable of MUCH more towing, I'd estimate 8000-9000lbs if you have only hills to go over and it's just you.
 

aj8544

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
176
Reaction score
318
Location
NY
Vehicle(s)
2020 JTR,2018 Wrangler JLU 2.0, 2018 F150
I was going to go Sport S max tow, but bought a Rubicon instead. A few things to remember with regards to towing and payload:
If you throw larger tires and a lift on your max tow, you are really no longer at the same ratings as stock. Yes tires are unsprung weight, but the diameter difference effectively changes your gear ratio, which does affect tow and payload capacity. Tire weight also does have an affect- it is rotational mass, and requires more engine power to get it moving (once up to speed not as much of a difference). Others have argued that tires and lifts dont affect towing and payload because they are unsprung weight- that is simply not correct. Essentially if you take a max tow and add the tires etc... of a rubicon like so many do right off the lot that door placard is no longer accurate. If Jeep could have rated the Rubicon to tow 7650 with 33” tires they would have done it.

My reasons for going Rubicon were actually financial. Yes you can add tires, lift and aftermarket leather for less than the up charge of the rubicon. But once you get into lockers and sway disco you will spend far more than the rubicon up charge. The rubicons equipment is fully warrantied, aftermarket will not be. Rubicon resale will be higher. You will never get your money back from modifying a Sport S max tow- you would likely be better off taking all the parts off and selling them outright and then selling the vehicle stock.

Nothing wrong with the max tow, but its certainly not the end all be all of the JT.
 

BAT

Well-Known Member
First Name
Blaine
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Threads
106
Messages
2,295
Reaction score
2,025
Location
Katy, TX
Vehicle(s)
Jeep Gladiator Sport S Max Tow Sting Grey
Sport S Max Tow

48F98347-70E4-4D19-9E6A-223467D7684B.jpeg


510DE62D-206E-4301-A972-928D31FF3DB1.jpeg


D7068CF7-7F19-448C-ACDF-7E0AF99B8141.jpeg
Yea man that is what I been looking at and hoping in a few months all goes well; I can get out from under all this Harvey Flood mess I will be able to Jump into a Gobi JT (Although I have been wavering a bit on the Firecracker Red). How's the Soft top working out.
 

Sponsored

HemiMagnum1

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
115
Reaction score
204
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
Challenger Hellcat Redeye Widebody, Durango SRT 392
Yea man that is what I been looking at and hoping in a few months all goes well; I can get out from under all this Harvey Flood mess I will be able to Jump into a Gobi JT (Although I have been wavering a bit on the Firecracker Red). How's the Soft top working out.
So far so good! Remarkably quiet up until about 70mph!
 

PyrPatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Threads
193
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,859
Location
Kentucky, USA
Vehicle(s)
JT Sport S Max Tow; Honda Element
I was going to go Sport S max tow, but bought a Rubicon instead. A few things to remember with regards to towing and payload:
If you throw larger tires and a lift on your max tow, you are really no longer at the same ratings as stock. Yes tires are unsprung weight, but the diameter difference effectively changes your gear ratio, which does affect tow and payload capacity. Tire weight also does have an affect- it is rotational mass, and requires more engine power to get it moving (once up to speed not as much of a difference). Others have argued that tires and lifts dont affect towing and payload because they are unsprung weight- that is simply not correct. Essentially if you take a max tow and add the tires etc... of a rubicon like so many do right off the lot that door placard is no longer accurate. If Jeep could have rated the Rubicon to tow 7650 with 33” tires they would have done it.

My reasons for going Rubicon were actually financial. Yes you can add tires, lift and aftermarket leather for less than the up charge of the rubicon. But once you get into lockers and sway disco you will spend far more than the rubicon up charge. The rubicons equipment is fully warrantied, aftermarket will not be. Rubicon resale will be higher. You will never get your money back from modifying a Sport S max tow- you would likely be better off taking all the parts off and selling them outright and then selling the vehicle stock.

Nothing wrong with the max tow, but its certainly not the end all be all of the JT.
A key difference is payload.

Essentially: if you want more Jeep: rubicon. If you want more truck: max tow
 

aj8544

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
176
Reaction score
318
Location
NY
Vehicle(s)
2020 JTR,2018 Wrangler JLU 2.0, 2018 F150
A key difference is payload.

Essentially: if you want more Jeep: rubicon. If you want more truck: max tow
But if you add tires and a lift, new shocks etc...then what is the difference? I understand the door placard will show higher payload, but once you modify the truck like a Rubicon that placard is no longer accurate, sure if you get stopped and weighed it might save a ticket, but as far as the real capability of the truck goes I dont think you are gaining much.

Basically what I am saying is that a max tow is a sport s, with the wider rubicon axles and 4.10 gears, but with the smaller tires and suspension of the sport s. So once you add larger tires, lift, you are right back at the rubicon. Only difference after those mods is the transfer case, locking diffs and sway disco, which shouldn’t affect towing or payload. Weight of the truck is a factor, but I doubt the t case lockers and disco weigh a whole lot.

It would be a different story if the max tow added something the rubicon doesnt have, like say heavier coils, but I don’t believe that is the case- correct me if I am wrong.
 
 



Top