Potential Diesel Buyer

[TXJT]

If an engine pumps out more heat for a given amount of power, it's less efficient and it's working harder. So you may be lulled into a false sense of security because it's revving lower, but it's also having a ton of boost pumped in and the smaller cylinders producing the same power are under more stress. It's physics - the cylinder temps are higher, cylinder pressures higher, the pistons and rods have more force being pushed through them because they're smaller. Being a diesel, it's magnified because the cylinder pressures are even higher. The only thing that's saved is some rotational friction and valvetrain stress, but that's not really what tends to blow up. It's a rod being twisted or a rod journal pounded into oblivion, or a piston top melting. The lower rpms don't save you from those when the cylinder pressures involved are 3x as high.

That's not to say diesels are bad, but it's a misconception that because they run lower rpm's they're under less stress. They're usually under a lot more.

This is like comparing apple to oranges...

I'm not bashing Hemi's, I have two Jeeps with 5.7 Hemi conversions in them and they are a blast to drive but I'm not going to use them to tow anything with. If you want to talk efficiency, my very first RAM pickup had a Hemi and would get 5-6 MPGs while flat towing a slightly modified TJ and at any noticeable incline would downshift and run up to 5,000 RPMs or more all the way up to near redline. All of my RAM Cummins pickups would get 10 MPG with a 30' gooseneck and two heavily modified TJs (20,000 pound load) behind them.

I've seen plenty of Hemi engines with broke rods due to sustained high RPMs. The stress levels inside a gas engine at high RPMs are just as real as the stress levels in a smaller engine with forced induction. It would be interesting to see a chart comparing the two but I doubt that exists in this context... No production gas engine is designed for sustained high RPM driving while the little diesel MAY or MAY NOT see more or less stress due to forced induction at any given RPM, the difference is that it is designed for it. I've never seen a gas or diesel engine come apart when operated within it's design parameters but a gas engine operating near redline is certainly not ideal and it certainly won't last long that way.

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[TXJT]

If you plan on doing any kind of serious towing the Gladiator in my opinion is not the truck to buy, I think it is designed to be towing around toys and light weight stuff less the 5,000 lbs for playing.

Exactly, this truck is a toy hauler not a tow rig and to use it at or near its capacity on a regular basis is asking for trouble and shortened life span.

 

[biodiesel]

A diesel engine, in theory, should be more durable than a gasoline engine. The Ecodiesel, especially deleted, might last 500,000+ miles whereas the Hemi might last 300,000+ miles. I'm guessing that the Hemi is better built than the 3.6L Pentastar, but I don't know that. A Pentastar replacement crate engine will be cheaper to replace than the Ecodiesel.

As for drivability, I agree with TXJT, the Ecodiesel is much smoother to drive. I think the next generation Ecodiesel is going to be even better. I've always felt like the current turbo on the Ecodiesel was too small. I read that the 2nd generation Ecodiesel will have a larger turbo, which will remedy some of the turbo lag that people complain about. After driving diesels for the last 13 years, it's hard to go back to a gasoline engine.

 

[Oilburner]

...The Ecodiesel, especially deleted...

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Thread is about to go into 'Anti-Emissions' territory

I've been wondering if eliminating the EGR would help lower the temps that apparently plague the 3.0/JT. A certain vendor claims it absolutely would, plus gain 40 lb-ft+ of torque.

 

[biodiesel]

***WARNING FOR ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE PEOPLES***
Thread is about to go into 'Anti-Emissions' territory

I've been wondering if eliminating the EGR would help lower the temps that apparently plague the 3.0/JT. A certain vendor claims it absolutely would, plus gain 40 lb-ft+ of torque.

If the vendor is GDE, then I would trust the source of information. GDE, if anyone, has a ton of information about how the Ecodiesel and how it operates. Hopefully the 2nd gen Ecodiesel will be as easy to tune as the 1st generation. The GDE tune can shutoff the EGR and DEF system.

 

[Sorbs]

I'm curious as to what gears and tire size you are running? I keep hearing people complain about turbo lag with these trucks, and i'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I haven't experienced it enough to complain about it. I just wonder if it has more to do with gearing (most of the RAMs came with 3.55s) while I purchased my truck with 3.92 gears because I knew it would get a set of 35's almost immediately. I sincerely hope that Jeep will keep the 4.10 gear option with the diesel offering knowing that people are going to immediately throw bigger tires on them.

It’s a Grand Cherokee with 3:45 gears. The lag is manageable, nothing like 1980s lag, but it’s there. You just need to finesse it. It works best in 4-low. No drama at all; acts like a v8 when you mash it and a diesel when crawling. In Rubicon trim it’ll be a beast.

Since I’ve had a JKUR and now a JLR with the Pentastar v6, I can report that in 4-low they’re a beast too. I don’t do things to ruin my stuff so I’m not one of those wanting to climb trees with my rig. So, if money is no object, you’ll be taking your brand new JT to the hardest trails, and parking it in the dent and scratch section after every weekend outing, then wait for the diesel. You won’t be disappointed.

 

[Bobzdar]

A diesel engine, in theory, should be more durable than a gasoline engine. The Ecodiesel, especially deleted, might last 500,000+ miles whereas the Hemi might last 300,000+ miles. I'm guessing that the Hemi is better built than the 3.6L Pentastar, but I don't know that. A Pentastar replacement crate engine will be cheaper to replace than the Ecodiesel.

As for drivability, I agree with TXJT, the Ecodiesel is much smoother to drive. I think the next generation Ecodiesel is going to be even better. I've always felt like the current turbo on the Ecodiesel was too small. I read that the 2nd generation Ecodiesel will have a larger turbo, which will remedy some of the turbo lag that people complain about. After driving diesels for the last 13 years, it's hard to go back to a gasoline engine.

Larger turbo makes lag worse (takes longer to spin up), not better.... Makes more boost though.

 

[biodiesel]

Larger turbo makes lag worse (takes longer to spin up), not better.... Makes more boost though.

You're absolutely right. And I should have clarified. I don't think we have a turbo lag problem, I think we have a turbo that is too small, which makes people believe that we have turbo lag. I'm hoping the new tuning with the larger turbo will make much more boost. The current turbo is too small (41 mm) and is working too hard. People have reported 60 - 70 PSI of backpressure at only 28 PSI boost, which is also why we are seeing super hot EGT readings.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

With the GC it's the tuning. Small turbos spool instantly so you get the instant torque...the GC lag is a software issue. The GDE tune gets rid of the "lag" and it's fantastic. Also, most people complain about the GC lag because they don't realize the default of the vehicle is to be in ECO mode. Turn off eco and put it in sport and the difference is night and day.

 

[Sorbs]

With the GC it's the tuning. Small turbos spool instantly so you get the instant torque...the GC lag is a software issue. The GDE tune gets rid of the "lag" and it's fantastic. Also, most people complain about the GC lag because they don't realize the default of the vehicle is to be in ECO mode. Turn off eco and put it in sport and the difference is night and day.

Almost correct. Eco mode is a button you turn on and all it does is hold shifts longer. The “sport mode” is what you want all the time. Quickens shifts, lowers to aero height and adds 15hp. Pull back on the gear shift when you get in drive and that puts it into sport...

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