Pre-Runner Springs - lots of rear wheel travel

[piroman683]

can't wait to see them!

I am considering offering them as a fully assembled shock or as an upgrade, but the upgrade only works if you are running Fox's -076 shocks in the rear (2.5 DSC). I'm roughly 6 months out from having that figured out as the next development print is currently being designed and wont start printing until late September.

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[JT1]

I am considering offering them as a fully assembled shock or as an upgrade, but the upgrade only works if you are running Fox's -076 shocks in the rear (2.5 DSC). I'm roughly 6 months out from having that figured out as the next development print is currently being designed and wont start printing until late September.

Right on, the spring sets gives approx 3.5" in the front and rear, what are the extended lengths of the shocks? Somewhere near 30"

 

[piroman683]

Shocks right now are looking to be 19.25in compresses and 32.25in extended - 13in stroke. I'm trying to get this to be 18.75in compressed and 31.75in extended - still 13in stroke, but make's it more compact which is great for the front end. (Rear doesn't really care).

There is some mixed information out there, specifically that ride height of a lift kit has a direct correlation to wheel travel. This is not true at all. For example, my rear springs are roguhly 3.5in lift, but they allow for 18in of travel. Other kits like MetalCloak, TerraFlex, and Synergy would advertise 3 or 4in lift, but only allow 14in of travel at most. My spring free length is 26in vs. others maxing out at 24, and mine compress to 7.4in vs. other longer kits compressing to about 9.5ish (at best). So a 4in or even 6in lift kit might sound like you're getting a lot, but in reality you are not because your wheel travel is never better than 14in

 

[rharr]

for the shocks are you thinking about coatings? Like hard anodize on inner shock body where the piston band wears against the shock body? I see a lot of issues on dirtbike suspensions where the OEM hasn't coated these surfaces and the soft aluminum will start wearing prematurely.

how about shaft coats? DLC or nitro brite or hard chrome?

Using good quality seals like SKF vs bulk stuff also adds to a shock, it's nice when you don't have to go to shock MFR to buy consumable parts and can pull from bearing houses and the such for parts.

I am sure you have it well handled but some of these finer details can really make a good shock better.

 

[Minty JL]

Interesting.......I like to go fast'ish

 

[piroman683]

for the shocks are you thinking about coatings? Like hard anodize on inner shock body where the piston band wears against the shock body? I see a lot of issues on dirtbike suspensions where the OEM hasn't coated these surfaces and the soft aluminum will start wearing prematurely.

how about shaft coats? DLC or nitro brite or hard chrome?

Using good quality seals like SKF vs bulk stuff also adds to a shock, it's nice when you don't have to go to shock MFR to buy consumable parts and can pull from bearing houses and the such for parts.

I am sure you have it well handled but some of these finer details can really make a good shock better.

The shocks are currently Inco 718 which is an aerospace superalloy, very strong and very hard. It is also highly corrosive resistant, in fact you wouldn't need to do anything to the ID bore. I am looking at making them out of 17-4 PH1025 as that is significantly easier to hone the final ID and is still incredibly strong and corrosion resistant.

The core of the technology of our shocks is in the design fo the shock body itself. For rest of the parts (piston, shaft, seals, etc) are based off of proved racing configurations from Fox and King. Both I believe use a hard chrome plated 17-4 shaft which makes sense.

I agree with your note on seals, this to me is super important. For our dev shocks we just used the same race seals and wear bands as Fox and King just so we can get these tested in the NORRA 1000, but we still want and will be digging into the details for bearings, seals, wearbands, and o-rings.

Because of the unique design approach we have increase the surface area by about 4x which is huge in managing heat. We also have 16 "bypass bleed circuits" to really fine tune the transition of each zone. We are not limited on number of bypass bleed circuits, and only started with 16 as a result of basline testing against Fox 3.0 4 tube bypass.

 

[rharr]

The shocks are currently Inco 718 which is an aerospace superalloy, very strong and very hard. It is also highly corrosive resistant, in fact you wouldn't need to do anything to the ID bore. I am looking at making them out of 17-4 PH1025 as that is significantly easier to hone the final ID and is still incredibly strong and corrosion resistant.

The core of the technology of our shocks is in the design fo the shock body itself. For rest of the parts (piston, shaft, seals, etc) are based off of proved racing configurations from Fox and King. Both I believe use a hard chrome plated 17-4 shaft which makes sense.

I agree with your note on seals, this to me is super important. For our dev shocks we just used the same race seals and wear bands as Fox and King just so we can get these tested in the NORRA 1000, but we still want and will be digging into the details for bearings, seals, wearbands, and o-rings.

Because of the unique design approach we have increase the surface area by about 4x which is huge in managing heat. We also have 16 "bypass bleed circuits" to really fine tune the transition of each zone. We are not limited on number of bypass bleed circuits, and only started with 16 as a result of basline testing against Fox 3.0 4 tube bypass.

Very cool, can't wait to see the results of your hard work!

 

[piroman683]

Very cool, can't wait to see the results of your hard work!

here's a recent clip of the truck doing 60 in Landers at the famous Giant Rock -

I have some other videos that cover parts of the race we completed back in April. Short story is we beat Raptors in the whoops, then blew the rear ring gear. So we won day 1, and finished the rest in the middle of the pack with only front wheel drive (non-locker too!)

 

[piroman683]

Good morning everyone! I am happy to announce that ordering of the springs is now open!

https://fundamentalmotorsports.com/product/springs/

For those within 20 miles of 90802 you should see an option for "Will Call" and/or "FedEx" - If you would like to meet up or have me personally deliver them then select "Will Call" and we will figure out the details once the order is placed!

I will be including a free shirt for the first 25 orders as well as a thank you for your patience and following along my journey of getting to this point.

The initial production run was only for 100 total sets (400 springs) and I'm hopeful the move pretty quickly, I'll be issuing a re-order once I get through the first 50 sets, but because I don't have an annual contract yet I'm stuck with 8-10 week lead times. The better things sell the sooner I can lock in a monthly delivery rate.

Please, let me know if you have any issues with the website. This is not my expertise and I had to have a lot of long and painful calls with the design team to fix what seemed to be minor issues. My background is Aerospace operations (SpaceX and GE, Aerospace) and not websites so this has been a hell of a learning curve.

Have a great rest of the week and go get dirty out there!

 

[RedBearon]

well crap, i forgot the flex photos. When I had the stock fron sway bar + rockjock rear along with Clayton front springs, Synergy rears coupled with Fox 2.5's (11.19in shock travel front, 11.97 shft travel rear) my front flex was 32in and the rear was 30. The front springs were a bit too stiff to really flex.

With these springs i was able to achieve 38.5in front, and 37.25in rear. Now I also installed the rock-jock front sway bar (softest one). The truck flex is now awesome, and I'm curious to see what it does with the finalized springs. I will be going with a slightly thicker front wire for the coil which reduces the # of coils needed, but puts me just above the infinate stress thresholdby about 3%. This should make adjusting the front bumpstops and adding the sanp on bumpstops easier. But still need to test that out.

Hey man! Thanks for sharing your journey. Been following your progress for a while. Love seeing it come to fruition with your website launch.

Couple questions for ya if you don't mind.
How much bump are you running these days?
Which sway torsion bars are you running front/rear?

TIA!

 

[piroman683]

Hey man! Thanks for sharing your journey. Been following your progress for a while. Love seeing it come to fruition with your website launch.

Couple questions for ya if you don't mind.
How much bump are you running these days?
Which sway torsion bars are you running front/rear?

TIA!

I am running the fox IFP bumps, and an NOT using any bump spacer on the axle side.

For sway bar I went the thickest in the rear and softest in the front.

 

[thekbad]

I’m local and picked up a set for all four corners. I expect that they will settle in a little bit. Also note that it might be sitting a bit higher in the front due to the driveway incline. I’ll report back once I have some more miles on them, but first impression is that these are great!

 

[Rusty PW]

I’m local and picked up a set for all four corners. I expect that they will settle in a little bit. Also note that it might be sitting a bit higher in the front due to the driveway incline. I’ll report back once I have some more miles on them, but first impression is that these are great!

How much lift did you gain with them?

 

[piroman683]

How much lift did you gain with them?

I believe he gained no more than 1.5 from his previous set up. I need to get to the dealership and take some measurements so I have a more accurate understand of the resulting lift.

 

[thekbad]

I could measure hub to hoodline/top of bed later. I don’t have a reference measurement from before the lift. I was previously running JKS P/N JSPEC1352 (3.0” JT, HD) in the front and JSPEC1257 (1.5” JT) in the back. I saw the most lift in the rear, but it definitely picked the front up some too, which I wanted. With the JKS springs I would rub my fenders on tight downhill turns.

I just got back from flexing out the new setup on the Rubicon Trail, and it did exceptionally well. Everyone else in the club was really impressed with how well the Gladiator handled everything.

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