Rattle from engine when accelerating (sounds like keys)

[@californiajeeping]

Guys,

There is the idle tick/rattle and pentastar tick. All 3 of my 3.6l engines from 2015 to 2020 have done this in multiple variations.

Then there is the higher gear PRIOR to a downshift high load example rolling into a driveway and your auto is in 3rd and you start giving it throttle to crest a high it will rattle. This is the light acceleration pinging that I think MOST get. Mine was obvious and using 91 and octane booster actually improved it.

My engine also ran rough at idle and had startup clatter of the lifters AND had the issue described above.

Two dealers said it was normal. Plus if I ran it hard wide open top rpm near the redline in the dunes or while snow wheeling I would eventually get a multiple misfire condition.

I fixed it by trading my maxtow sport s 3.6l for a diesel sport s.

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[Scrubb84]

Guys,

There is the idle tick/rattle and pentastar tick. All 3 of my 3.6l engines from 2015 to 2020 have done this in multiple variations.

Then there is the higher gear PRIOR to a downshift high load example rolling into a driveway and your auto is in 3rd and you start giving it throttle to crest a high it will rattle. This is the light acceleration pinging that I think MOST get. Mine was obvious and using 91 and octane booster actually improved it.

My engine also ran rough at idle and had startup clatter of the lifters AND had the issue described above.

Two dealers said it was normal. Plus if I ran it hard wide open top rpm near the redline in the dunes or while snow wheeling I would eventually get a multiple misfire condition.

I fixed it by trading my maxtow sport s 3.6l for a diesel sport s.

Lmao. I knew there was a fix! ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Then there is the higher gear PRIOR to a downshift high load example rolling into a driveway and your auto is in 3rd and you start giving it throttle to crest a high it will rattle. This is the light acceleration pinging that I think MOST get.

Can't and won't comment on the most part - but that's a great description.
And yes, I think the "problem" is made worse by the fact that if you have 10 people with a "rattle", it won't be the same for all 10. For most? maybe, maybe not, won't say, but it won't be all 10 with the same cause or even the same symptom exactly.
I have never heard any sort of "rattle" or "ping" or other odd noises from any of our 3.6 engines other than what I consider normal valve train sounds. If it was a 4.0 I'd almost suggest injector sounds.
But IMO your "higher gear prior to downshift" is a great way to describe the event that causes the ping of detonation.

 

[@californiajeeping]

Can't and won't comment on the most part - but that's a great description.
And yes, I think the "problem" is made worse by the fact that if you have 10 people with a "rattle", it won't be the same for all 10. For most? maybe, maybe not, won't say, but it won't be all 10 with the same cause or even the same symptom exactly.
I have never heard any sort of "rattle" or "ping" or other odd noises from any of our 3.6 engines other than what I consider normal valve train sounds. If it was a 4.0 I'd almost suggest injector sounds.
But IMO your "higher gear prior to downshift" is a great way to describe the event that causes the ping of detonation.

I wonder if the re-flash from the rough idle thread fixes this and thats why some of the newer 3.6l motors dont do it?

Wish there was more transparency on new vehicles with FCA and other brands. Not hidden behind the scenes "updates" that are not clear on what they do.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I wonder if the re-flash from the rough idle thread fixes this and thats why some of the newer 3.6l motors dont do it?

Wish there was more transparency on new vehicles with FCA and other brands. Not hidden behind the scenes "updates" that are not clear on what they do.

Amen to the latter part of that post, and I wish I knew on the first part.
All I know is that mine was built November 5th, 2019. It has never pinged or rattled, not even a loose screw or shield rattle. Believe me when I say if it did, my wife would be all over me "what's that, that's a problem isn't it? What is that?" Or "what's that annoying rattle, why is it doing that".

At an earlier visit a year ago, maybe 2 years ago now - how time flies - at a dealer visit, they connect their reader and said "your vin comes up needing a PCM flash, you want to do it?:
Sure.
The truck behaved a lot different for a while, then relearned and went back to it's old too fast shifting ways but I saw no impact on anything except one thing.
That flash dropped my MPG by about 2. No other changes, no tire change, no weight added, nothing, that flash dropped mpg.
But to this day, no rattle or ping. I THOUGHT I heard a sort of ping or rattle the other day, driving up a 1-2% hill, under 2,000 rpm at about 45 mpg but realized it was the wind in the A pillar area making a weird sound.

 

[NachoRuby]

I wonder if the re-flash from the rough idle thread fixes this and thats why some of the newer 3.6l motors dont do it?

Wish there was more transparency on new vehicles with FCA and other brands. Not hidden behind the scenes "updates" that are not clear on what they do.

Amen to the latter part of that post, and I wish I knew on the first part.
All I know is that mine was built November 5th, 2019. It has never pinged or rattled, not even a loose screw or shield rattle. Believe me when I say if it did, my wife would be all over me "what's that, that's a problem isn't it? What is that?" Or "what's that annoying rattle, why is it doing that".

At an earlier visit a year ago, maybe 2 years ago now - how time flies - at a dealer visit, they connect their reader and said "your vin comes up needing a PCM flash, you want to do it?:
Sure.
The truck behaved a lot different for a while, then relearned and went back to it's old too fast shifting ways but I saw no impact on anything except one thing.
That flash dropped my MPG by about 2. No other changes, no tire change, no weight added, nothing, that flash dropped mpg.
But to this day, no rattle or ping. I THOUGHT I heard a sort of ping or rattle the other day, driving up a 1-2% hill, under 2,000 rpm at about 45 mpg but realized it was the wind in the A pillar area making a weird sound.

I got that service bulletin done, and assuming it's the same rattle, it did not fix the issue.

 

[JT Marine]

Funny, I see and hear of this more and more and they say that mine is the only one. Guess we all need to start making more noise about it! Lol

I have the same issue, exact description. I have a 2020 Glad Rubi, manual. Definitely not detonation. At leats not that I have ever heard that sounded like this noise.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I still believe there are at least 3, likely more, causes of the sound.
I also find it interesting that of those who say they have a rattle sound, most are manual transmissions. That alone may be a clue.

True detonation on these should be extremely rare. If it's true detonation, the PCM will back off timing and make other adjustments when the sensors tell it of the vibrations of detonation. Octane also has an impact on detonation - so if upping to 93 doesn't change anything, that combined with the PCM attempting to avoid detonation should suggest - it's not detonation.

A larger issue facing modern engines is LSPI - that's a very similar ping or rattle, but it's not detonation. PI can cause detonation and when combined you have a real issue. Minor detonation itself isn't a killer, but PI, in these cases, LSPI causing detonation is a bigger issue.
LSPI is a big enough issue that oil standards have been changed to address it. Oil certifications now test oil's ability to resist LSPI (so good luck to those who poo-poo and thumb their noses at oil certifications - you may be screwing yourself in your quest to prove that you know better, you don't need no damned certification)
If your engine has issues with LSPI - change to a better oil that's made to prevent it. Use what MOPAR recommends. It's worth a shot even if you do know better and a whole lot more than any idiot MOPAR engineers.

And then there's mechanical rattles that can often sound a whole lot like engine noises............

I know I've repeated this many times but if you drive a stick and think you have detonation - stop shifting so danged soon. Wind it up, stop lugging it, wait to shift, keep RPMs up. Detonation takes time - there's not enough time for detonation at higher RPM. It's one reason engines built for pure drag racing can be run on the bleeding edge, there's no time to detonate at high RPM.
I even wind my 4.0 up hard before shifting.
These engines are made for RPM.
It's worth a try.

 

[JTDay]

There's an identical thread on the 5G Ranger forum. My Ranger did it a lot, I've only heard it twice on my gladiator. It sounds like pinging to me. I have also read some other threads here where people posted videos that sounded like LSPI. I'm not worried about the pinging. The clutch/FW on my gladiator certainly makes some insane noises though.

 

[SelfmodJT]

I still believe there are at least 3, likely more, causes of the sound.
I also find it interesting that of those who say they have a rattle sound, most are manual transmissions. That alone may be a clue.

True detonation on these should be extremely rare. If it's true detonation, the PCM will back off timing and make other adjustments when the sensors tell it of the vibrations of detonation. Octane also has an impact on detonation - so if upping to 93 doesn't change anything, that combined with the PCM attempting to avoid detonation should suggest - it's not detonation.

A larger issue facing modern engines is LSPI - that's a very similar ping or rattle, but it's not detonation. PI can cause detonation and when combined you have a real issue. Minor detonation itself isn't a killer, but PI, in these cases, LSPI causing detonation is a bigger issue.
LSPI is a big enough issue that oil standards have been changed to address it. Oil certifications now test oil's ability to resist LSPI (so good luck to those who poo-poo and thumb their noses at oil certifications - you may be screwing yourself in your quest to prove that you know better, you don't need no damned certification)
If your engine has issues with LSPI - change to a better oil that's made to prevent it. Use what MOPAR recommends. It's worth a shot even if you do know better and a whole lot more than any idiot MOPAR engineers.

And then there's mechanical rattles that can often sound a whole lot like engine noises............

I know I've repeated this many times but if you drive a stick and think you have detonation - stop shifting so danged soon. Wind it up, stop lugging it, wait to shift, keep RPMs up. Detonation takes time - there's not enough time for detonation at higher RPM. It's one reason engines built for pure drag racing can be run on the bleeding edge, there's no time to detonate at high RPM.
I even wind my 4.0 up hard before shifting.
These engines are made for RPM.
It's worth a try.

I shift at 3.5k rpms, so when it gets into the next gear it's still above 2k rpms shifting smoothly with match rev on the accelerator. Still pings underload for a sec or so, so you're saying I should shift at 4 to 5k rpms? It's not because were shifting too soon.... reguardless as stated before idc anymore ? ping away and break before I get to 100k miles is what I'm hoping for.

 

[@californiajeeping]

I still believe there are at least 3, likely more, causes of the sound.
I also find it interesting that of those who say they have a rattle sound, most are manual transmissions. That alone may be a clue.

True detonation on these should be extremely rare. If it's true detonation, the PCM will back off timing and make other adjustments when the sensors tell it of the vibrations of detonation. Octane also has an impact on detonation - so if upping to 93 doesn't change anything, that combined with the PCM attempting to avoid detonation should suggest - it's not detonation.

A larger issue facing modern engines is LSPI - that's a very similar ping or rattle, but it's not detonation. PI can cause detonation and when combined you have a real issue. Minor detonation itself isn't a killer, but PI, in these cases, LSPI causing detonation is a bigger issue.
LSPI is a big enough issue that oil standards have been changed to address it. Oil certifications now test oil's ability to resist LSPI (so good luck to those who poo-poo and thumb their noses at oil certifications - you may be screwing yourself in your quest to prove that you know better, you don't need no damned certification)
If your engine has issues with LSPI - change to a better oil that's made to prevent it. Use what MOPAR recommends. It's worth a shot even if you do know better and a whole lot more than any idiot MOPAR engineers.

And then there's mechanical rattles that can often sound a whole lot like engine noises............

I know I've repeated this many times but if you drive a stick and think you have detonation - stop shifting so danged soon. Wind it up, stop lugging it, wait to shift, keep RPMs up. Detonation takes time - there's not enough time for detonation at higher RPM. It's one reason engines built for pure drag racing can be run on the bleeding edge, there's no time to detonate at high RPM.
I even wind my 4.0 up hard before shifting.
These engines are made for RPM.
It's worth a try.

When I had the gas gladiator running 91 and lucas octane booster completely got rid of the light acceleration pinging prior to a downshift.

Didnt fix the tick tick tick and horrible rattle on startup then the randomly rough idle and the high rpm multiple misfire :\. We are looking for a second family vehicle and if its a wrangler it has to have the 2.0L never getting another 3.6L after reading all these threads and my own issues. The motor has design issues and needs to be shelved.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Another who failed probability and statistics...... ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I shift at 3.5k rpms, so when it gets into the next gear it's still above 2k rpms shifting smoothly with match rev on the accelerator. Still pings underload for a sec or so, so you're saying I should shift at 4 to 5k rpms? It's not because were shifting too soon.... reguardless as stated before idc anymore ? ping away and break before I get to 100k miles is what I'm hoping for.

Did anyone say "all" or "everyone" or "it will solve all" ?
No, but more than one person here has expressed their concern over being above 2500 RPM.
Maybe YOU aren't shifting too soon so you can't say "it's not because we're shifting too soon"...... some likely are from what I've observed. There's those here who are really bothered seeing these things over 4,000 RPM at all. Some hate seeing them over 2500 for any length of time.
Hell, 2 of my cars cruised 70 mph at over 3,000 RPM and people freak if they see that on these.
These aren't even breathing heavy under 3,000 - they are still in low lift mode.

A "ping for a second or so" isn't a killer. Likely won't do a thing.
Still it's interesting that many of the "rattle" complaints are from manual transmission. **and before you jump - look and see I did not say "all" just like I didn't say ALL manual drivers were shifting too soon, and I was explaining there's more than one reason for the noises heard. Some even solved it by fixing shields under the truck - but it sure sounded like "ping".

 

[SelfmodJT]

Did anyone say "all" or "everyone" or "it will solve all" ?
No, but more than one person here has expressed their concern over being above 2500 RPM.
Maybe YOU aren't shifting too soon so you can't say "it's not because we're shifting too soon"...... some likely are from what I've observed. There's those here who are really bothered seeing these things over 4,000 RPM at all. Some hate seeing them over 2500 for any length of time.
Hell, 2 of my cars cruised 70 mph at over 3,000 RPM and people freak if they see that on these.
These aren't even breathing heavy under 3,000 - they are still in low lift mode.

A "ping for a second or so" isn't a killer. Likely won't do a thing.
Still it's interesting that many of the "rattle" complaints are from manual transmission. **and before you jump - look and see I did not say "all" just like I didn't say ALL manual drivers were shifting too soon, and I was explaining there's more than one reason for the noises heard. Some even solved it by fixing shields under the truck - but it sure sounded like "ping".

I understand what you meant, I'm sure some are shifting too soon. But the issue is why is it pinging in 1st gear? Obviously you would be burning the clutch if you took the rpm to 2.5k and started releasing the clutch, no? I understand how you can lug the engine in other gears but 1st gear was specifically meant to get the wheels rolling, no? Obviously no one that knows how to drive a manual is not light throttling up an incline? Reverse is completely another issue, almost impossible not to lug or burn the clutch reversing up an incline. It's going to ping or burn the clutch.

 

[NachoRuby]

Did anyone say "all" or "everyone" or "it will solve all" ?
No, but more than one person here has expressed their concern over being above 2500 RPM.
Maybe YOU aren't shifting too soon so you can't say "it's not because we're shifting too soon"...... some likely are from what I've observed. There's those here who are really bothered seeing these things over 4,000 RPM at all. Some hate seeing them over 2500 for any length of time.
Hell, 2 of my cars cruised 70 mph at over 3,000 RPM and people freak if they see that on these.
These aren't even breathing heavy under 3,000 - they are still in low lift mode.

A "ping for a second or so" isn't a killer. Likely won't do a thing.
Still it's interesting that many of the "rattle" complaints are from manual transmission. **and before you jump - look and see I did not say "all" just like I didn't say ALL manual drivers were shifting too soon, and I was explaining there's more than one reason for the noises heard. Some even solved it by fixing shields under the truck - but it sure sounded like "ping".

The manual issue isn't pinging, and it isn't from shifting too soon. It's a resonance noise. It's prominent from about 2800-3200 rpm, and goes away above or below that. It's not consistent, in fact mine hasn't done it in a few weeks. It sounds more like something in the dash or the front of the Jeep than anything actually powertrain related.

It's definitely not from shifting too soon, because it doesn't come on in low RPMs.

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