Shuddering at idle

[Garemlin]

Did you ever find out what this issue is?

I did not. It had seemed to had just stopped. But just had a really warm day the other day and it did it again. Didn't happen at all during the cooler and cold fall and winter months.

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[Maximus Gladius]

So it feels like a rumbling or shuttering at idle on yours?? The sound and feel is almost like it's separate from the regular engine sound and feel? Have you had yours checked out?

Tell us about the feel. If separate from the engine, do you feel it in the seat? In the shift leaver? Floor? I also had this on occasion. You willing to do an oil analysis of your engine and transmission to see if the lab can see issues of abnormal wear?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What does transmission wear have to do with the engine roughness or idle issues?
Almost all idle issues lie elsewhere.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

What does transmission wear have to do with the engine roughness or idle issues?
Almost all idle issues lie elsewhere.

He mentioned it appeared to be separate from the engine. The only other thing spinning with a running engine is the torque converter.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

He mentioned it appeared to be separate from the engine. The only other thing spinning with a running engine is the torque converter.

Torque converter being bolted directly to the engine, more like a flywheel. It would have to be literally broken inside to cause any vibration.
Even the old TF 998 when it broke the torque converter pump drive hub, the only symptom was a big leak and a clunk sound now and then.
I have my doubts.................especially if the issue is only at IDLE.
Vibrations only at idle will be "running" issues, rather than something broken. Vibrations will get worse and higher frequency with RPM increase.
I've worked on vehicles with torque converter issues - shuddering, odd sounds, and vibrations that are constant, steady, never go away and get worse with RPM.

If it's at idle, it's a problem with the way the engine is running.
Likely something basic but then this is where the oil check comes in due to some cam issues out there.
Otherwise, rough running has been tracked to oil leaks getting to the O2 sensor, spark plug issues (on other models of Jeeps), valve train issues............

 

[Garemlin]

He mentioned it appeared to be separate from the engine. The only other thing spinning with a running engine is the torque converter.

No I said it feels like a separate sound and feel from the normal engine sound. It is most definitely coming from the engine.

 

[Barnaby’sdad]

I experienced something along this line yesterday. ‘22 JTR 3.6 w/966 miles. I got a flashing CEL, but there are no codes stored.

I’d just driven 90 miles, so the engine was warm. I started up after being shut off for 30 min or so, drove 1/2 mile, and when I came to a stop…the CEL flashed and the engine shuddered/stumbled.

Not a “you‘re throwing a rod” level of shaking, but a (I’m pretty sure) the ESS was having a brain-fart and couldn’t decide whether it wanted to shut the engine off or let it keep running.

I immediately put the transmission in park and shut the engine off. When I started it back up, it was as if nothing happened. The engine ran fine for the 100+ miles home (took the scenic route).

When I went for a drive this morning (1,075 miles), the CEL flashed briefly, but there was no shuddering/stumble. I plugged in the code reader again. No code stored.

My code reader is several years old…and I believe…pre-dates the ESS craze of the past few years. Do I need to get a newer code reader or should even a ~5 year old reader be able to pull some sort of code for something like that?

I really don’t think this is a bad fuel, gas cap loose, etc. issue, as it’s running just fine otherwise and no generic codes are pulling.

My assumption at this point is that if I take it to the dealer, this is going to be one of those “could not duplicate” scenarios, as this has only happened twice is 20+ starts (a lot of start-stop cycles over the past couple of days) and the no code stored thing.

I was leaning toward getting an ESS delete at some point, but I obviously don’t want to go doing any tinkering before I figure out what the issue is, as I might end up having to take it to the dealer.

I would appreciate any thoughts that folks might have to offer. Thank you.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I experienced something along this line yesterday. ‘22 JTR 3.6 w/966 miles. I got a flashing CEL, but there are no codes stored.

I’d just driven 90 miles, so the engine was warm. I started up after being shut off for 30 min or so, drove 1/2 mile, and when I came to a stop…the CEL flashed and the engine shuddered/stumbled.

Not a “you‘re throwing a rod” level of shaking, but a (I’m pretty sure) the ESS was having a brain-fart and couldn’t decide whether it wanted to shut the engine off or let it keep running.

I immediately put the transmission in park and shut the engine off. When I started it back up, it was as if nothing happened. The engine ran fine for the 100+ miles home (took the scenic route).

When I went for a drive this morning (1,075 miles), the CEL flashed briefly, but there was no shuddering/stumble. I plugged in the code reader again. No code stored.

My code reader is several years old…and I believe…pre-dates the ESS craze of the past few years. Do I need to get a newer code reader or should even a ~5 year old reader be able to pull some sort of code for something like that?

I really don’t think this is a bad fuel, gas cap loose, etc. issue, as it’s running just fine otherwise and no generic codes are pulling.

My assumption at this point is that if I take it to the dealer, this is going to be one of those “could not duplicate” scenarios, as this has only happened twice is 20+ starts (a lot of start-stop cycles over the past couple of days) and the no code stored thing.

I was leaning toward getting an ESS delete at some point, but I obviously don’t want to go doing any tinkering before I figure out what the issue is, as I might end up having to take it to the dealer.

I would appreciate any thoughts that folks might have to offer. Thank you.

Ignore ESS. It's not going to make a difference in gathering information nor does it have anything to do with this.
Why not do what I did - I used the Bluetooth adapter and my tablet and kept it logging information a I ran my wife's Jeep. Captured the misfires even though the MIL never came on and there were never any codes stored. If it's a transient thing, it may not call for the light and may not log, but you should still be able to capture it by live readings.
A misfire that's bad enough can make the 3.6 feel like you are riding a bull - with your spurs poking it in the side.

The codes for the engine will be mostly standard so don't let the fact it has ESS enter into it, especially since it's not an ESS stop or start doing it.

 

[Barnaby’sdad]

Ignore ESS. It's not going to make a difference in gathering information nor does it have anything to do with this.
Why not do what I did - I used the Bluetooth adapter and my tablet and kept it logging information a I ran my wife's Jeep. Captured the misfires even though the MIL never came on and there were never any codes stored. If it's a transient thing, it may not call for the light and may not log, but you should still be able to capture it by live readings.
A misfire that's bad enough can make the 3.6 feel like you are riding a bull - with your spurs poking it in the side.

The codes for the engine will be mostly standard so don't let the fact it has ESS enter into it, especially since it's not an ESS stop or start doing it.

Apologies if I missed It, but I’m not seeing where you discussed that. Tablet wise…is this something that I could do with an iPad or would I need a laptop (I have access to both)? What would I need to accomplish this? I.e. ‘X’ Data logging software and ‘X’ Bluetooth adapter for the OBD port.

 

[Garemlin]

Ok it's been a while but I'm revisiting my post since the shuddering has returned with a vengeance. I uploaded a video to the first post. Best if listened to on something other than your phone speaker.

 

[mghoodlum]

I had similar issue and had some rockers replaced.

 

[vettred84]

goes away when you over ride ess system.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

goes away when you over ride ess system.

If you knew how the ESS works, you'd see how that's not possible.
It would be like me watching a football game- on TV - and making note of the stats and changing the outcome of the game.

ESS monitors, it doesn't make changes.
ESS only stops the engine if a whole long list of conditions are within certain specified ranges. If any of those criteria are not met, it won't stop the engine.
It tracks exactly where each piston is, when each injector fired, the outcome of the combustion process and so on so that when the ESS stop event is over, it reacts as if the engine didn't stop, and starts it again.

When the engine is running, it does nothing but "look". It doesn't touch, thus it can't impact a running engine or change how it idles.

 

[MAJ80's]

I started experiencing the “rough idle” ONLY AFTER the dealer repaired a misfiring cylinder. I’m attaching images of the 3 page service receipt. Jeep dealer’s first available appointment is in a month (which I scheduled for this rough idle). #jeepcares @JeepCares

To keep track, before the misfiring cylinders, I found large metal chunks in my rear differential and posted pictures of it. I can’t say that I’m thrilled.

page 1, service receipt

page 2, service receipt

page 3, service receipt

The thing about engine issues like "rough idle" is that it can be caused by any one of a number of things, maybe even more than one. So a solution for one may not be the same as yours.
It may be helpful to know how another was fixed, but I'd not count on it being the same issue.
Have you thought about seeing a dealer about it since it's under warranty?
There won't be any "self-fixes".

 

[BAT]

Interesting mine often will begin to idle roughly after sitting in park for like 15 minutes but I never put much thought to it. I just shut the truck off and restart it before moving on

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