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(Solved) Dealer Deposit Refund on Botched Order

sunrise089

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OP, I am not defending the dealership, they suck hard. But two things:

1) why would you mention Gupton before you have cash in hand? I get it’s your right but man I just don’t see the upside other than 5 seconds of gratification.

2) could you say more directly (apologies if I’m dumb and I missed it) whether you signed any sort of order in any way? This should be super straightforward - dealership didn’t order what you told them to. The fact that you don’t seem to say that directly to the dealership and instead say ‘it’s okay, I was told I could get a refund over the phone’ makes me uncertain whether you accidentally DID agree to order the Jeep as configured by the dealer. Can you clarify?
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WoolyKris

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I posted before about how my order sheet didn't match my build sheet or window sticker…
I’m assuming you had a misfortune of buying at West Springfield Bertera, I’m soooo sorry man, I feel for you. Bought a car from them years back, very rude staff, their business practices were questionable at best, never went back. Jeep really needs to improve dealer network to be more consistent if they want to compete in luxury segment. When I take my wife’s Lexus for service comparing to Jeep it is a totally different world, not even same universe. Yet Jeep charges about same price.
 

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I’m assuming you had a misfortune of buying at West Springfield Bertera, I’m soooo sorry man, I feel for you. Bought a car from them years back, very rude staff, their business practices were questionable at best, never went back. Jeep really needs to improve dealer network to be more consistent if they want to compete in luxury segment. When I take my wife’s Lexus for service comparing to Jeep it is a totally different world, not even same universe. Yet Jeep charges about same price.
Price doesn't matter - you are buying a totally different vehicle for different reasons.
Lexus is the Toyota luxury brand - and it's been the car for corporate officers, lawyers, doctors and others for years. It's aimed at a specific market so service is more than everything.
Jeep isn't a luxury brand. Heck, you can buy a loaded Grand Cherokee for LESS than a lot of the competition charges and get more.
Jeep people want Jeep.
Lexus people want high quality, fit and finish and luxury. (that's not a bad thing - you buy those vehicles expecting that things just plain WORK and fit perfectly)
 

sunrise089

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Lexus people want high quality, fit and finish and luxury. (that's not a bad thing - you buy those vehicles expecting that things just plain WORK and fit perfectly)
Lexus also sells expensive Toyotas (not only that, they also sell the be-still-my-heart-gorgeous LC coupe). Guess what your 30% markup gets you? Part of it is the dealership experience. It's up to each buyer to decide whether those sort of 'soft' benefits are worthwhile.
 

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Lexus also sells expensive Toyotas (not only that, they also sell the be-still-my-heart-gorgeous LC coupe). Guess what your 30% markup gets you? Part of it is the dealership experience. It's up to each buyer to decide whether those sort of 'soft' benefits are worthwhile.
My first "experience" (using the term loosely) with a Lexus was one owned by the CFO of Compressor Controls. (Stock split made him a millionaire in a short time). He had some issues with it, something electrical, and the dealership's shop had to contact the company to get the wiring diagram for his specific car. He said something about security - somehow each vehicle was slightly different. I accepted his explanation............ but looking the car over, it was a beaut.
 

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Did you check MA state laws on this? I was always told that they had to refund deposits due to that, but I may be wrong. I try to avoid the large dealer networks in MA they all suck. That and I never go East of 495, past experiences have taught me that…
I ordered my Jeep from a small dealer in central MA, Guzik motors. Super easy, no pressure. We negotiated the price up front and triple checked the build sheet before signing. Minimal dealer fees ($99 I think?) and absolutely no hassle.
Have you figured how you are going to get your vehicle from TN to MA? MA didn’t allow temp tags for years and unless that’s changed then you would need to do all the dealership running with all the documents while your Jeep sits in TN. Then go to TN with your plates and drive home, or get the Jeep shipped. with either shipping cost or travel costs plus the cost of
Your time and the dealer fees it almost negates the savings. I thought about trying Gupton before I ordered mine but I didn’t want the hassle and it was mid Covid so interstate overnight travel was not allowed. It was easier for me to stay in state.
 
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TwelveGaugeSage

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OP, I am not defending the dealership, they suck hard. But two things:

1) why would you mention Gupton before you have cash in hand? I get it’s your right but man I just don’t see the upside other than 5 seconds of gratification.

2) could you say more directly (apologies if I’m dumb and I missed it) whether you signed any sort of order in any way? This should be super straightforward - dealership didn’t order what you told them to. The fact that you don’t seem to say that directly to the dealership and instead say ‘it’s okay, I was told I could get a refund over the phone’ makes me uncertain whether you accidentally DID agree to order the Jeep as configured by the dealer. Can you clarify?
I mentioned Gupton when renegotiating for their botched up order. I was willing to buy it, but I wanted a better price if I wasn't getting exactly what I wanted. I sent them Gupton's quotes.

As for the order, we went through, selected all my options, printed out exactly what I selected, I looked it over, it was correct. Signed the paperwork and gave them my credit card. They gave me a copy of the printout with all the options. Now, I noticed on the search that it ended up having an ORDER date of two days after I was at the dealership. So it seems to me they put the order in a couple of days after I was in there. Most likely, the manager that put everything in screwed something up.

I remember the exchanges with the salesman very well. We were discussing leather seats. My wife complained that black leather would get hot. Salesman said the perforated leather(that I wanted) might help with that. She agreed.

She also complained that I wanted the M/T tires. Salesman just grinned and clicked the box. Why would I want a Rubicon without M/T tires, lol.
 
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TwelveGaugeSage

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Did you check MA state laws on this? I was always told that they had to refund deposits due to that, but I may be wrong. I try to avoid the large dealer networks in MA they all suck. That and I never go East of 495, past experiences have taught me that…
I ordered my Jeep from a small dealer in central MA, Guzik motors. Super easy, no pressure. We negotiated the price up front and triple checked the build sheet before signing. Minimal dealer fees ($99 I think?) and absolutely no hassle.
Have you figured how you are going to get your vehicle from TN to MA? MA didn’t allow temp tags for years and unless that’s changed then you would need to do all the dealership running with all the documents while your Jeep sits in TN. Then go to TN with your plates and drive home, or get the Jeep shipped. with either shipping cost or travel costs plus the cost of
Your time and the dealer fees it almost negates the savings. I thought about trying Gupton before I ordered mine but I didn’t want the hassle and it was mid Covid so interstate overnight travel was not allowed. It was easier for me to stay in state.
Oh, I have no doubt that the law is on my side. I ordered one vehicle, they tried to sell me another. It's like a new take on the Bait and Switch. The dealership just doesn't care because they are assholes. What's the worst I can do? Waste my time taking them to small claims and get the money that way? They probably wouldn't even show up at court, knowing they would lose.

I suspect what they didn't count on was that I was pissed off enough to smear their shitty name all over the internet. Not that there isn't plenty of that already, but that's a lot longer lasting pain in their asses than a simple judgement against them.

As for getting the truck back from TN, shouldn't be an issue at all. While this state ridiculously doesn't offer its own temp tags, it DOES recognize those from other states. You can also buy a car from this another state and use the plates off your old vehicle's tags, but there is a list of requirements to do that. I think Daniel said TN temp tags were $7.50.
 

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Add realtors to the list of industries that need to be overhauled in the Internet age. When is the last time someone didn't go to their realtor, if they used one, with a list of houses they wanted to see that they found themselves from searching the internet? The days of going to a realtor and having them print out house listings from their magical MLS system is long gone.
 

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Now, I noticed on the search that it ended up having an ORDER date of two days after I was at the dealership. So it seems to me they put the order in a couple of days after I was in there. Most likely, the manager that put everything in screwed something up.
Awe that sucks. The salesman and Sales Manager submitted my order when I was sitting right there looking at the screen with them...

Now that i'm thinking about it when I ordered my Subaru, it was quite sketchy. I ordered over the phone never verified anything. That said they didn't make me sign or take a deposit. "We can sell that car in a couple hours if you don't want it" -Sales Manager

In this market i'm not sure why the whole deposit is necessary. If someone bails on a new vehicle it's not like they won't be able to sell it...
 
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Add realtors to the list of industries that need to be overhauled in the Internet age. When is the last time someone didn't go to their realtor, if they used one, with a list of houses they wanted to see that they found themselves from searching the internet? The days of going to a realtor and having them print out house listings from their magical MLS system is long gone.
Gotta disagree here. Realtors do much more than that. Sure, some people don't need a realtor and don't use one. They go through their own attorneys to draw up paperwork. But for the vast majority, the realtor provides services well beyond just "a list of houses" that without, the deal would fall apart.

If you ever buy a house and don't have to talk to anyone in between making the offer and signing at closing, your realtor has made that possible.
 

sunrise089

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I mentioned Gupton when renegotiating for their botched up order. I was willing to buy it, but I wanted a better price if I wasn't getting exactly what I wanted. I sent them Gupton's quotes.

As for the order, we went through, selected all my options, printed out exactly what I selected, I looked it over, it was correct. Signed the paperwork and gave them my credit card. They gave me a copy of the printout with all the options. Now, I noticed on the search that it ended up having an ORDER date of two days after I was at the dealership. So it seems to me they put the order in a couple of days after I was in there. Most likely, the manager that put everything in screwed something up.

I remember the exchanges with the salesman very well. We were discussing leather seats. My wife complained that black leather would get hot. Salesman said the perforated leather(that I wanted) might help with that. She agreed.

She also complained that I wanted the M/T tires. Salesman just grinned and clicked the box. Why would I want a Rubicon without M/T tires, lol.
Thanks. The dealer sucks and I’m glad you named and shamed them.

My only advice for anyone reading who might have a similar experience is re: this exchange: “Snarky jerk behind the counter, ‘Your order didn't get messed up. Deposits are non-refundable. Did you order your Gladiator in Tennessee?"’ I said, "’Yes I did.’”

You lost a golden opportunity there to (re)-focus the dispute on the factual issue in your favor. You could have held up your signed sheet and had them compare it right there to the ordered Jeep and forced them into a losing position. Instead you allowed them to shift the debate to a side issue both immaterial to the discussion at hand and guaranteed to piss them off. There’s plenty of time to shout at the dealer, online or in person, over their pricing and their refund policy, but the one time not to do that was during a material disagreement over whether the order was made correctly or not.
 
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TwelveGaugeSage

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I don't disagree, but I didn't have the proof with me as I didn't think I would need it after being told to come in and get my deposit back.
 

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Gotta disagree here. Realtors do much more than that. Sure, some people don't need a realtor and don't use one. They go through their own attorneys to draw up paperwork. But for the vast majority, the realtor provides services well beyond just "a list of houses" that without, the deal would fall apart.

If you ever buy a house and don't have to talk to anyone in between making the offer and signing at closing, your realtor has made that possible.
Years ago we got into an acreage with a well - was told all was fine, water was no problem, etc. We were young, not real experienced about the wells in this part of the state. We later had some issues, I went out and pulled the cap off the well, took a REALLY bright light and shone it down in there. The casings were shifted a bit, not perfectly lined up - and a rodent had gotten through and was floating on the water.
I contacted the seller and can't recall the details, but it was a fight - nothing wrong, we acted in good faith, that must have happened later, blah blah. Without asking her, the realtor stepped in, got money to mostly pay for a whole new well - and the realtor felt so bad that even SHE didn't catch it, she paid the remaining funds to fully pay for a whole new well. I was shocked, insisted it wasn't all her bad, but she insisted. She and her husband were both extremely honest and great to deal with.
When we later sold the place (jobs hadn't come through, we needed to downsize) she sold it for us in a single weekend and got our full asking price and it was SO simple.
We later sold a house on our own - she wasn't available and I knew that house would be a simple sale for the most part. Be ready, folks - it can be a roller coaster ride.
The realtor does do a lot more than print listings....... it's like a duck on the water - looks like it's just sitting there, but under the surface those feet are really moving - if there's ever a legal tangle or issue, nice to have someone on your side.
 
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Years ago we got into an acreage with a well - was told all was fine, water was no problem, etc. We were young, not real experienced about the wells in this part of the state. We later had some issues, I went out and pulled the cap off the well, took a REALLY bright light and shone it down in there. The casings were shifted a bit, not perfectly lined up - and a rodent had gotten through and was floating on the water.
I contacted the seller and can't recall the details, but it was a fight - nothing wrong, we acted in good faith, that must have happened later, blah blah. Without asking her, the realtor stepped in, got money to mostly pay for a whole new well - and the realtor felt so bad that even SHE didn't catch it, she paid the remaining funds to fully pay for a whole new well. I was shocked, insisted it wasn't all her bad, but she insisted. She and her husband were both extremely honest and great to deal with.
When we later sold the place (jobs hadn't come through, we needed to downsize) she sold it for us in a single weekend and got our full asking price and it was SO simple.
We later sold a house on our own - she wasn't available and I knew that house would be a simple sale for the most part. Be ready, folks - it can be a roller coaster ride.
The realtor does do a lot more than print listings....... it's like a duck on the water - looks like it's just sitting there, but if there's ever a legal tangle or issue, nice to have someone on your side.
I agree with these sentiments. I think we for the most part on this forum are mechanically inclined and purchasing a vehicle is a fairly straight forward process that can be dealt with quite easily - despite crappy practices by some dealers.

Real property is a whole different ball game. Having someone knowledgeable to guide you through the process is well worth it.
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