Steering Dampener Dying.

[PuddleJumper]

So I been through all the necessary test, and I'll just start from the beginning. I recently got 37s to run for overlanding/trails only. I rarely commute them. I had a bit of vibration and i got it sorted to a bad wheel spacer and the tires aren't perfectly balanced. They have a bit of miles now to wear in and all the vibration is gone, rides like a cloud. till this morning when i got a little planned sideways action, cus wet roads are fun. As soon as the truck straightened out it had a very mild but noticeable shimmy. as i continued my drive it slowly went away, and no amount of curb bouncing or pot holes on purpose could get it to come back. I checked my ball joints, bearings and rods at work. all are tight with no play. which only leaves the stabilizer. the only thing i can figure is it doesn't take abuse cold and as it warmed up through use it got better? anywho, I don't want a dealer to deny me ball joints in the future cus i went aftermarket stabilizer. I know my home one wouldn't but if I'm out of state, well lets just say ya'll got some horror story dealers out here. Is the Fox one on MoparParts.com dealer safe? does it perform well? or should i just burn through cheapo OEM ones?

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[Lunentucker]

I can't imagine a dealer denying a ball joints claim based on a better quality aftermarket dampener, but I can on the spacers and 37's.

So go ahead and toss a good one on it. Fox or Falcon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GTQTNZJ/

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I can't imagine a dealer denying a ball joints claim based on a better quality aftermarket dampener, but I can on the spacers and 37's.

Yes, because of the increased loading, especially with spacers. It put a fair amount more loading on the ball joints.
There's one area if I was really so-inclined, and I'm not, but if I put on spacers, I'd absolutely upgrade the ball joints.
That's a lot more leverage out there and abuse on those joints. And the forces involved in the big tires and extra weight.
Try, but don't count on them allowing ball joints under warranty.
That's a modification to the geometry and takes it well outside of the normal design parameters.

The SS isn't for shimmy, it's for bump steer. Shimmy is caused by tire and wheel issues, not a stabilizer issue - that only masks it, the shimmy, the forces, will still be there, you won't feel it, but any shimmy will work on the new parts to kill it earlier than normal.

 

[PuddleJumper]

I can't imagine a dealer denying a ball joints claim based on a better quality aftermarket dampener, but I can on the spacers and 37's.

So go ahead and toss a good one on it. Fox or Falcon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GTQTNZJ/

I never bring it to them with the 37s and spacers installed. only on the stock wheels and tires.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Yes, because of the increased loading, especially with spacers. It put a fair amount more loading on the ball joints.
There's one area if I was really so-inclined, and I'm not, but if I put on spacers, I'd absolutely upgrade the ball joints.
That's a lot more leverage out there and abuse on those joints. And the forces involved in the big tires and extra weight.
Try, but don't count on them allowing ball joints under warranty.
That's a modification to the geometry and takes it well outside of the normal design parameters.

The SS isn't for shimmy, it's for bump steer. Shimmy is caused by tire and wheel issues, not a stabilizer issue - that only masks it, the shimmy, the forces, will still be there, you won't feel it, but any shimmy will work on the new parts to kill it earlier than normal.

spacers are to get me back to stock scrub radius. They are used on stock Sport wheels which are +44. the Mojave is +35 stock. I'm at +22 with the spacer which i think is pretty mild considering a 0 offset aftermarket wheel will put more leverage stress than my setup and plenty of people run that. But i have no doubt the heavy 37s will wear components out quicker. I check everything when i swap the around my wheel/tire setups. With your comment that the shimmy can't be from a stabilizer. maybe i lost a wheel weight on one of the front tires? Or mabye time for a sector shaft brace kit?

 

[OHJeeper]

There's one area if I was really so-inclined, and I'm not, but if I put on spacers, I'd absolutely upgrade the ball joints.
That's a lot more leverage out there and abuse on those joints. And the forces involved in the big tires and extra weight.
Try, but don't count on them allowing ball joints under warranty.

I wouldn't be concerned with the SS causing the dealer to deny a ball joint warranty, but to Shadow's point, the spacer just might because of the reasons above.

 

[PuddleJumper]

I wouldn't be concerned with the SS causing the dealer to deny a ball joint warranty, but to Shadow's point, the spacer just might because of the reasons above.

i use to be 100 percent against spcers. And i never go to the dealer with em on or my 37s. But i can't see them be the issue as i dont have an problem running the spacers on my 33s. And technically its a more aggressive offset on my 33s than my 37s setup. I got the spaces i did in mind of trying to conserve the stock scrub radius not "stance or look". I see plenty of people running 0 offset wheels with little to no issue, and my offset with the spacer is +22. The only issue left is if one off my 37s is out of balance again and i put in on the front last rotation. I checked the ball joints and they are still fine. I get they wont last 40k but i minimize stress by only running my 37s for offroad trips and nothing else. It spends 80 percent of its time on 33s with no issues. I think i will swap the SS regardless tho.

 

[KevinC]

So you swap tires/wheels and pull off your wheel spacers every time you visit the dealer?

Curious how you checked the ball joints and determined they are good? Your method could be good information for future maintenance.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

spacers are to get me back to stock scrub radius. They are used on stock Sport wheels which are +44. the Mojave is +35 stock. I'm at +22 with the spacer which i think is pretty mild considering a 0 offset aftermarket wheel will put more leverage stress than my setup and plenty of people run that.

Just because "plenty of people run........... " doesn't mean it's without trouble. Jeep guys will often totally ignore the fact they have to replace parts A and B every 20K because it goes against their narrative. They don't care if it's not a great handling machine - it's more important to be tough - ignore the occasional pains and repairs.

Scrub radius isn't just wheel offset/backset and so on - it's tire diameter as well. You have to change both to keep things right. Want 37s? Then consider wheel changes to keep things as designed. Want wheel poke but not bigger tires? Then you've thrown it out of whack again.
But like i said - most won't care - for them it's a matter of harsh crawling, and frankly, for some - it's a matter of peer approval and looks.

Any change to weight and size and leverage out there is going to wear things, period.
You have to accept that. it's thrown outside of the design parameters and spec ranges.
There's a whole lot more stress on the steering components when turning, and ball joints are part of that equation as well.
You have to go in knowing that to do what you want to do with it, make it look how you want it to look or handle what you want, you've taken it outside of just replacing parts, like-for-like and could be denied certain warranties.

I'm kind of surprised they replaced my front shocks under warranty - knowing the weight I carry on the front of that truck at times......... and I'd have accepted that had they denied warranty on them.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

Ball joints are a wear item… when they go replace them with better units.

Remove your front stabilizer completely- go for a ride, if the shimmy/shake you were feeling is gone you found your problem at the cost of 2 bolts…. Factory stabilizer is cheap enough to replace- or think down the road to your build- is a fancy stabilizer worth the extra? ??‍? Jeeps are Toys… if you put big tires on them supporting modifications need to be done.
Tires are the Cheapest part of this game….

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ball joints are a wear item… when they go replace them with better units.

A statement so true, it's unbreakable.

Some have driven these with no stabilizer, proving that there's really not much they do if everything else is right.
It's a damned sideways mounted shock in the most simple sense - it doesn't do anything other than dampen quick movements. It can't cause movements.

 

[PuddleJumper]

So you swap tires/wheels and pull off your wheel spacers every time you visit the dealer?

Curious how you checked the ball joints and determined they are good? Your method could be good information for future maintenance.

I daily on my stock 33s. 37s are trail only. I check ball joints the way i learned on old fords. jack up 1 front tire up and make sure the other 3 are on the ground. Then put a pry bar under the lifted wheel and lift up. nothing should move other than tire deflection. If they are bad the knuckle will deflect in a similar way that a bad bearing would. when you lift the tire it unloads the ball joint. If the bushings inside the joint are worn out the ball will shift upwards in its cup and using the pry bar will make it "click" into the cup where its supposed to be. makes a noticeable noise.

 

[Lunentucker]

A statement so true, it's unbreakable.


It's a damned sideways mounted shock in the most simple sense - it doesn't do anything other than dampen quick movements. It can't cause movements.

You're beautiful when you're succinct! ?

Edit: He gets it all from the Youtubes

 

[PuddleJumper]

Just because "plenty of people run........... " doesn't mean it's without trouble. Jeep guys will often totally ignore the fact they have to replace parts A and B every 20K because it goes against their narrative. They don't care if it's not a great handling machine - it's more important to be tough - ignore the occasional pains and repairs.

Scrub radius isn't just wheel offset/backset and so on - it's tire diameter as well. You have to change both to keep things right. Want 37s? Then consider wheel changes to keep things as designed. Want wheel poke but not bigger tires? Then you've thrown it out of whack again.
But like i said - most won't care - for them it's a matter of harsh crawling, and frankly, for some - it's a matter of peer approval and looks.

Any change to weight and size and leverage out there is going to wear things, period.
You have to accept that. it's thrown outside of the design parameters and spec ranges.
There's a whole lot more stress on the steering components when turning, and ball joints are part of that equation as well.
You have to go in knowing that to do what you want to do with it, make it look how you want it to look or handle what you want, you've taken it outside of just replacing parts, like-for-like and could be denied certain warranties.

I'm kind of surprised they replaced my front shocks under warranty - knowing the weight I carry on the front of that truck at times......... and I'd have accepted that had they denied warranty on them.

I hear what your saying. I only maybe 800 miles max on the 37s. 18k on the stock setup. I don't expect the ball joints to go immediately but i don't expect them to last more than 15k more max. I'm just gonna King pin swap when they go most likely. The cost is worth the piece of mind. I did a lot math and the 37s i got on the stock sport wheels with 1in spacer are a hair of the dimensions of the Xtreme recon package which is what i was aiming for. figured if jeep thought those numbers were good i could swing it for now. the only difference is the 37 weighs a bit more. I definitely am not planning on ignoring anything or trying to ruin the handling feel. but since there is no definitive list of things to do to make 37s handle great. I'm basically letting eat what its gonna eat stock, and replace with the best upgrade i can find, without ruining how it functions on the 33s. if that make sense.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Ball joints are a wear item… when they go replace them with better units.

Remove your front stabilizer completely- go for a ride, if the shimmy/shake you were feeling is gone you found your problem at the cost of 2 bolts…. Factory stabilizer is cheap enough to replace- or think down the road to your build- is a fancy stabilizer worth the extra? ??‍? Jeeps are Toys… if you put big tires on them supporting modifications need to be done.
Tires are the Cheapest part of this game….

i always delete the SS when it comes to diag in the front end. I also check ball joints another more definitive way. I know the OEM ones wont last but 800 miles on 37s shouldn't do em in that quickly. Im not gonna upgrade ball joints tho, thats a losing battle on a shitty design imo. I'll do a king pin swap like i did on my Buddy's ol 1 ton swapped Ford. far better design, last way longer and much easier to repair if it does go out.

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