Steering Damper

[ShadowsPapa]

Just an update. I had a brief discussion with my dealer's service area. They informed me unequivocally that the steering box on my 2021 cannot be adjusted. They will need to procure a new steering box to resolve an excessive play.

Based on what I've read and seen on this forum, the steering box can be adjusted to reduce excessive play. Any thoughts from anyone? Am I getting the run-around on this issue?

Be careful "adjusting" it. There's specs for that.
This will help get you there -
https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/steering-gear-adjustment.html


I don't have the specs for these late model type boxes but have specs going back into the 50s for almost everything else. Some give very specific instructions and warnings but really the biggest warning is you can get into trouble taking out too much play.......or making it too tight. You'll know...........

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[IanNubbit]

Just an update. I had a brief discussion with my dealer's service area. They informed me unequivocally that the steering box on my 2021 cannot be adjusted. They will need to procure a new steering box to resolve an excessive play.

Based on what I've read and seen on this forum, the steering box can be adjusted to reduce excessive play. Any thoughts from anyone? Am I getting the run-around on this issue?

Coming from a dealer tech (me) they say it can’t be adjusted because Mopar would never tell any one to adjust it including techs, and they would have no clue other wise. Some techs (again hi) are on the internet and forums and Facebook, actually own these types of vehicle and understand the owners, 99% don’t, and even if your tech was one of the few who get Jeeps and It‘s crowd, your only going to talk to the advisor any way. I could ask every person at my dealer if they can adjust the tension on the JL/JT steering box and not one would say yes. That’s not because they are a bad tech or anything alike, it’s that they know what Mopar tells them, and they don’t know what Mopar doesn’t.

 

[Pookie]

Be careful "adjusting" it. There's specs for that.
This will help get you there -
https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/steering-gear-adjustment.html


I don't have the specs for these late model type boxes but have specs going back into the 50s for almost everything else. Some give very specific instructions and warnings but really the biggest warning is you can get into trouble taking out too much play.......or making it too tight. You'll know...........

Thanks for sending this out. I sincerely appreciate it.

 

[Pookie]

Coming from a dealer tech (me) they say it can’t be adjusted because Mopar would never tell any one to adjust it including techs, and they would have no clue other wise. Some techs (again hi) are on the internet and forums and Facebook, actually own these types of vehicle and understand the owners, 99% don’t, and even if your tech was one of the few who get Jeeps and It‘s crowd, your only going to talk to the advisor any way. I could ask every person at my dealer if they can adjust the tension on the JL/JT steering box and not one would say yes. That’s not because they are a bad tech or anything alike, it’s that they know what Mopar tells them, and they don’t know what Mopar doesn’t.

Thanks for sharing your inside perspective. It seems to be exactly what's going on. I'm talking with the advisor and he's definitely not a Jeep person and doesn't seem the tech is either.

When I asked the advisor what the purpose of the steering damper was he admitted he didn't know.

I think it's kinda crazy that Mopar doesn't show/tell the techs to adjust the steering box to resolve these steering issues which seem to be pretty widespread.

 

[Trickster]

This steering box shaft adjustment makes me wonder.
If this “is” the resolution for play/wander issues, why does Jeep not acknowledge this?
I mean, they designed the box with the ability to make the adjustment, so……..
Just saying.

 

[Hootbro]

This steering box shaft adjustment makes me wonder.
If this “is” the resolution for play/wander issues, why does Jeep not acknowledge this?
I mean, they designed the box with the ability to make the adjustment, so……..
Just saying.

It seems to appear that for the JL/JT, Jeep just has the steering box adjustment as a vendor bench adjustment only when first built and no provisions to give spec and procedure for adjustment after the fact when installed.

I would imagine from both a cost and liability perspective, they take the stance that it should not be a end user or dealer level adjustment and only option is a remove and replace with a new unit.

Jeep has no reason to acknowledge any adjustment procedure if their decision is to not support it with tech data and assume liability for it.

 

[dcmdon]

Years ago, no - you never had problems. Now - I'm almost starting to agree.
I've installed new and reman steering gear over the years - tens of thousands of miles, no play. But these seem to have a problem after time.

As far as this bit on steering stabilizers - here we go again. NO, they do not correct anything. They were never intended for correcting wander or loose steering, they were never designed or installed for that reason. They aren't a fix for anything, really.

This is a quote from an expert in suspension and steering - not an armchair facebook expert -

>>On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour. On an improperly designed and/or poorly maintained system, a damper is used as a crutch to mask issues with suspension and tire errors.<<

It's not for death wobble, it's not for loose steering, it's not for wandering.

I agree 100%. Before I considered buying a Gladiator I knew nothing about stick axle vehicles. I still know nothing relatively as I havent' received my truck yet.

But even I have learned that it goes pitman arm -> drag link -> right steering knuckle -> tie rod -> left steering knuckle. NOWHERE in any of that is the steering damper. Its got literally nothing to do with steering play. All the bushings and joints that make up that series DO. .

I may actually have that wrong above. But I'll figure it out when I can lie on my back and look at the thing in person.

Either way its sad that a "trained" factory tech would suggest that the steering damper would be the cause of loose steering.

****Now a question - Will they adjust the steering box at a dealer? Or just change it out?

 

[Radio Guy]

I had a serious wandering problem driving home from the dealer and after lowering tire pressure down to 34-35psi it was greatly improved but there was still noticeable play between the steering wheel and tires. I had previously made an adjustment to the steering box on my '65 El Camino with 200k mi and was familiar with the procedure and results, so I adjusted the box on my Gladiator. That made a world of difference and improved the overall steering feel.

The screw and lock nut on my Gladiator box had Loctite or similar and I had to carefully heat just the nut and screw with a small propane torch to loosen but after that the adjustment was simple. I then swapped out the steering stabilizer with a Fox 2.0 as an off roading upgrade and that made another slight improvement in the feel but also caused the truck to take a little longer to straighten out after a turn, which was expected.

Now on most roads the truck handles very well and much improved over stock but when driving in the truck lane on most freeways there is still a tendency to wander a bit as the tires try to find high spots in the ruts made by big trucks. Next week I hope to check front wheel toe in using some DIY methods in couple of Youtube videos. I'm hoping to find its a little out of spec and that a slight adjustment will complete this adventure and the truck will drive itself down the road.

Bottom line is there are different things that will cause the steering to wander or feel loose and each one needs a different solution. A steering dampener upgrade is not a specific cure for wandering and at best a band aid masking other problems. I think its a good general upgrade, especially for off roading but it should not be counted on to cure wandering or to fix play in the steering.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

and that made another slight improvement in the feel but also caused the truck to take a little longer to straighten out after a turn, which was expected.

Absolutely - because (and you know this by your "was expected" statement - the stabilizer is basically a shock, in a sense. It forces oil through orifices, which slows the movement. So you'll have more resistance to quick moves, and more resistance to the vehicle returning to center after a turn. It will take longer than usual,

Its got literally nothing to do with steering play. All the bushings and joints that make up that series DO. .

Yuuuuup - play will be there. If there's play anywhere between you and the right steering knuckle, there's play that takes up your desire to move the wheels with the steering wheel. The play in each joint (and the steering gear itself) must first be removed before motion is imparted to the next item in that chain of events. If there's play in the gear, that's removed then the pitman moves - if there's play in that joint, it's removed before the next part moves, and so on.
It's really bad when there's just a really tiny amount of play in each joint because it's accumulative. Even if each is in specs, so to speak, there's a stack-up of tolerances and what might be .1 in each joint becomes .5 after 5 joints.
So "I don't see a lot of play in any joint" doesn't mean the total play isn't unacceptable.



My bet - dealers won't adjust steering gear. Not while it's under warranty, anyway.
I have to assume that because my replacement steering gear (first one) was great when I picked up the truck, and for weeks, even a couple of months after they replaced it, there's got to be something to this "increasing wear, increasing play" thing. Mine really wandered badly after a few months, so they replaced it again.

 

[dcmdon]

Absolutely - because (and you know this by your "was expected" statement - the stabilizer is basically a shock, in a sense. It forces oil through orifices, which slows the movement. So you'll have more resistance to quick moves, and more resistance to the vehicle returning to center after a turn. It will take longer than usual,



Yuuuuup - play will be there. If there's play anywhere between you and the right steering knuckle, there's play that takes up your desire to move the wheels with the steering wheel. The play in each joint (and the steering gear itself) must first be removed before motion is imparted to the next item in that chain of events. If there's play in the gear, that's removed then the pitman moves - if there's play in that joint, it's removed before the next part moves, and so on.
It's really bad when there's just a really tiny amount of play in each joint because it's accumulative. Even if each is in specs, so to speak, there's a stack-up of tolerances and what might be .1 in each joint becomes .5 after 5 joints.
So "I don't see a lot of play in any joint" doesn't mean the total play isn't unacceptable.



My bet - dealers won't adjust steering gear. Not while it's under warranty, anyway.
I have to assume that because my replacement steering gear (first one) was great when I picked up the truck, and for weeks, even a couple of months after they replaced it, there's got to be something to this "increasing wear, increasing play" thing. Mine really wandered badly after a few months, so they replaced it again.

If the wander gets bad and you are out of warranty, would you adjust it?

Does anyone make an upgraded aftermarket steering box/gear??

 

[johnh442]

Depends what you mean by "loose steering"
I've installed the Fox ATS stabilizer and it make a noticeable difference on the highway with steering effort to keep things on track. Stabilizer won't fix alignment issues, but this:
"On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour."
Is exactly what it helps with (IMO). Especially on crappy roads/highways with crowns/ruts and rough pavement especially at higher speeds.. I think of it as steering "bounce"...which in these jeeps, especially as a jeep noob, is much more noticable than other trucks/cars.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If the wander gets bad and you are out of warranty, would you adjust it?

Does anyone make an upgraded aftermarket steering box/gear??

Once out of warranty, I would disconnect things and adjust it "according to the book".
I know some guys "just turn the screw" and are good with that (and as long as they don't go too drastic on turning it - likely fine....... but too much can lead to trouble)
........ my OCD and my training says I'll follow the procedure to check all preload and play and go from there. I'd bet I can "sweet talk" the shop into giving me the specs.

This stuff about these being so different from some shops because it's "electric/hydraulic" is bunk. These are not like the Grand Cherokee and other Jeep vehicles - these do have electronics but that's for pump and pressure control. The steering gear itself is still fairly old-school.
Yes, it is not like your father's 90 Camaro but it's also not a Grand Cherokee that parks itself, either.

I still have one year or 16,000 miles (likely 12 months will pass first) on my warranty so I'll use that for all I can.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Depends what you mean by "loose steering"
I've installed the Fox ATS stabilizer and it make a noticeable difference on the highway with steering effort to keep things on track. Stabilizer won't fix alignment issues, but this:
"On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour."
Is exactly what it helps with (IMO). Especially on crappy roads/highways with crowns/ruts and rough pavement especially at higher speeds.. I think of it as steering "bounce"...which in these jeeps, especially as a jeep noob, is much more noticable than other trucks/cars.

Yeah, I was going to go into some detail about how the IFS systems pivot the inner tie rods at the same place the lower control arms pivot so any bump, dip or irregularity in the road won't cause it to want to turn the wheels either way - while the track bar being on the right side, how things pivot differently on these means a sudden jounce or dip can want to "turn" the wheels but decided not to go that far.
On a level decent road there's really so very little difference, it's when you introduce irregularities, quick dips or bumps, something like the freeway going around the east side of Indianapolis where it causes vehicles and trailers to literally jump off the pavement with their holes and chunks of concrete on the highway........ that's when you need that damper on a straight axle like these. Iowa's interstates I'll put my straight axle Jeep truck against any other pickup with IFS - but rough roads, that's different.

 

[Renegade]

This steering box shaft adjustment makes me wonder.
If this “is” the resolution for play/wander issues, why does Jeep not acknowledge this?
I mean, they designed the box with the ability to make the adjustment, so……..
Just saying.

Jeep doesn't design the steering gear/box itself, they just design the jeep with a steering gear/box with certain specs. Their contracted steering gear vendor designs and builds the box. The preload is set at the supplier's facility as it is produced (same with other drivetrain parts). I would speculate that there are certain performance dimensions built into their supplier contracts, and replacement of failed parts from the supplier is included. Jeep doesn't want to get involved in adjusting a part that isn't supposed to require adjustment. This is likely why Jeep swaps in new axle shaft assemblies when a seal fails while under warranty. They eat the warranty labor expense, but the supplier (Dana/Spicer in the case of the axle) most likely provides the replacement part.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Jeep doesn't design the steering gear/box itself, they just design the jeep with a steering gear/box with certain specs. Their contracted steering gear vendor designs and builds the box. The preload is set at the supplier's facility as it is produced (same with other drivetrain parts). I would speculate that there are certain performance dimensions built into their supplier contracts, and replacement of failed parts from the supplier is included. Jeep doesn't want to get involved in adjusting a part that isn't supposed to require adjustment. This is likely why Jeep swaps in new axle shaft assemblies when a seal fails while under warranty. They eat the warranty labor expense, but the supplier (Dana/Spicer in the case of the axle) most likely provides the replacement part.

Well thought-out response there.

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